The electric Transit is coming...

[Lt Keefer]

According to the federal government there are 168,000 gas stations and around 48,000 EV charging station. So the infrastructure is getting there. But charging an EV is not a pull in fill up experience and never will be. I'll keep using petro until the government tows away my internal combustion engine and so will 99.9% of the people on this forum.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Lt Keefer

According to the federal government there are 168,000 gas stations and around 48,000 EV charging station. So the infrastructure is getting there. But charging an EV is not a pull in fill up experience and never will be. I'll keep using petro until the government tows away my internal combustion engine and so will 99.9% of the people on this forum.

I think that "48,000" is counting each individual connection as a station. So if you have a sixpack of chargers in the Target parking lot that would be counted as 6 stations. I wonder if they are also counting home charging stations?

[petefoss]

Originally Posted by Chance

For RV applications where most of us normally travel long distances, I think a plug-in hybrid makes a lot of sense. For city driving most people don’t need a range of 200~300 miles, which adds a lot of weight and costs. A van with 50 to 100 km of electric range (31 to 62 miles) will handle most daily trips. And when it can’t, the range extender can be used for unlimited distances.

Attached is link to Ford Transit Custom with 1-liter range extender; and Ford is not first to pursue this approach.

For package delivery like UPS or Amazon, a pure electric may make more sense because of average distance traveled daily. Personal use, particularly as a motorhome, is very different.


https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...n-Driving.html

I've ever understood why we (GM) dropped the Volt and other range extender vehicles. I think they are an ideal compromise until BEV vehicles and the charging system and infrastructure can support a similar cross country driving experience to a traditional vehicle

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Lt Keefer

According to the federal government there are 168,000 gas stations and around 48,000 EV charging station. So the infrastructure is getting there. But charging an EV is not a pull in fill up experience and never will be. I'll keep using petro until the government tows away my internal combustion engine and so will 99.9% of the people on this forum.

According to this GM's new batteries will be able to charge at 350kW--100 miles in 10 minutes--its getting closer to "fuel up and go".

[Chance]

Originally Posted by petefoss

I've ever understood why we (GM) dropped the Volt and other range extender vehicles. I think they are an ideal compromise until BEV vehicles and the charging system and infrastructure can support a similar cross country driving experience to a traditional vehicle

The Volt was mechanically involved, which probably added a lot of extra cost and weight.

An electric-driven vehicle with an internal combustion engine driving a generator as a range extender seems simpler to me. I’d expect lower cost and weight.

Mercedes must be considering this approach. With 100 km (62 mile) electric range, it only needs a small battery bank. That should help offset costs and weight associated with range extender.


https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaS...ml?oid=9271741

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Chance

The Volt was mechanically involved, which probably added a lot of extra cost and weight.

An electric-driven vehicle with an internal combustion engine driving a generator as a range extender seems simpler to me. I’d expect lower cost and weight.

Mercedes must be considering this approach. With 100 km (62 mile) electric range, it only needs a small battery bank. That should help offset costs and weight associated with range extender.


https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaS...ml?oid=9271741

Indeed series hybrids are much simpler but less efficient for long distance/highway travel as there are more losses between the generator and motor than there would be by simply driving the wheels from the gas engine.

The Volt (and many hybrids) can be either a series or parallel hybrid to maximize the efficiency for all the various situations they may face (stop & go, highway driving, rural driving, etc.).

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

According to this GM's new batteries will be able to charge at 350kW--100 miles in 10 minutes--its getting closer to "fuel up and go".

If they can get battery costs below $100/kWh as they project, and total battery system below $120/kWh, it should easily change the way motorhomes are designed. For the cost of a regular built-in motorhome generator, you’d be able to buy well over 20 kWh of battery capacity.

[petefoss]

Originally Posted by Chance

If they can get battery costs below $100/kWh as they project, and total battery system below $120/kWh, it should easily change the way motorhomes are designed. For the cost of a regular built-in motorhome generator, you’d be able to buy well over 20 kWh of battery capacity.

On the Volt, 10 kWh usable would drive the vehicle almost exactly as far as the range extender could drive it on one gallon of gas. I don't expect an RV to get very far on the energy equivalent of two gallons of gas.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by petefoss

On the Volt, 10 kWh usable would drive the vehicle almost exactly as far as the range extender could drive it on one gallon of gas. I don't expect an RV to get very far on the energy equivalent of two gallons of gas.

You misunderstood my comment to Jamie. I was referring to eliminating the Onan generator and powering air conditioners and other house loads from the 20 kWh house battery bank.

Motorhome would still run on gas (or diesel).

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Indeed series hybrids are much simpler but less efficient for long distance/highway travel as there are more losses between the generator and motor than there would be by simply driving the wheels from the gas engine.

The Volt (and many hybrids) can be either a series or parallel hybrid to maximize the efficiency for all the various situations they may face (stop & go, highway driving, rural driving, etc.).

In practice I’m not sure it makes much difference in highway efficiency. Generators and electric motors are fairly efficient, while the mechanical transmission was not 100%. And if the simpler drivetrain makes vehicle lighter overall, it will need less power at driven wheels, which helps offset lower power-transmission efficiency.

The other thing to consider is where are most miles driven? If first 100 km are pure electric, the amount of gas spent beyond that won’t be much on an annual basis. Maximizing efficiency through lighter weight may have a larger impact overall.

I’m not sure, but expect difference isn’t much. Either way, I’d always take simple over complex even if it costs a bit more gas once in a while. A single transmission repair would offset any gas savings for the life of a vehicle.

[axis earl]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1

I "borrowed" one of these EV1's from the "Saturn" dealership for about a week. I absolutely loved it.... The power was amazing but it only had a range of 50-60 miles.... We have a long way to go before we can have such power haul our heavy RVs the long distances we really want to go. It may happen but probably not in my lifetime. As I said, I loved the EV1 and may have a small EV some day.

[JamieGeek]

Yeah that's the thing: With the current state of technology I think the ideal setup today would be a series and/or parallel hybrid RV with a battery bank large enough for 30-50 miles of slow travel.

The coach manufacturer could also utilize the high-voltage battery to power the coach's systems with an autostart on the main engine of the RV to re-charge the battery when low (If you think about it that auto-start could very well simply be the OEM's system that runs it when going down the road). Even running the A/C wouldn't be nearly close to the power draw that going down the highway would be.

It would be a win-win setup.

In a way car manufacturers are already doing this...Ever wonder why all the self-driving prototypes are hybrids or BEVs--all that computing power requires electricity.

[Chance]

The following is an interesting article comparing EV versus gasoline efficiency. I had not thought much about differences in energy consumption between Electric Vehicles because “fuel” costs are relatively low, but now I wonder what the equivalent numbers would be for trucks or RVs.


https://www.commondreams.org/views/2...-yes-heres-why

[JamieGeek]

Here is an interesting development: Batteries roughly 1/2 the weight:

Sion Power's Li-Metal Batteries To Offer 420 Wh/kg Commercially

Of course its just another hype article in a long line of "new battery tech is a game changer"...as always we'll see if it pans out.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Here is an interesting development: Batteries roughly 1/2 the weight:

Sion Power's Li-Metal Batteries To Offer 420 Wh/kg Commercially

Of course its just another hype article in a long line of "new battery tech is a game changer"...as always we'll see if it pans out.

What do you think of all the latest news on Samsung's (possible?) solid state battery breakthrough? I don’t see much mention about weight, but 900 Wh per liter of volume is incredible, as is talk of 500-mile range. Also no mention of cost or power capacity.

If nothing else, such high energy efficiency suggest very little heat generation, hence little or no active cooling needs.


https://newatlas.com/energy/samsung-...te-ev-battery/

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Chance

What do you think of all the latest news on Samsung's (possible?) solid state battery breakthrough? I don’t see much mention about weight, but 900 Wh per liter of volume is incredible, as is talk of 500-mile range. Also no mention of cost or power capacity.

If nothing else, such high energy efficiency suggest very little heat generation, hence little or no active cooling needs.


https://newatlas.com/energy/samsung-...te-ev-battery/

Very interesting: There has been a lot of research in solid-state-batteries going on but, so far, nobody has been able to crack it. With Samsung being one of the larger battery manufacturers they have a better chance than most to bring something like that to market.

We will see if they can get that to market faster than the normal "5-10 years" we frequently see.

[ducksface]

I seem to be the only person in the world who remembers the Australian electric vehicle experiment back in the USA ev1 days.
You pulled up to the 'pump' and a robotic arm removed your battery and inserted a charged battery. Three minutes if I remember correctly.

They had a number of stations and I think it lasted five years or so.

Some things are scrubbed from the internet.
I haven't looked into the story in 10 years or so, maybe the info is back.

Also:
Some of us remember the 'all chrome' FIFTY new trucks from the Atlanta Olympics opening or closing ceremnony.
I don't think there's a real detailed picture of them on the whole interests and Info wise there is but one small snippette from some pagen21 of a small newspaper.

Some things get scrubbed.
If you're interested Ina system which worked, but was too costly at the time like the ev1, see if you can find the Australian info.

We stopped in kingman AZ recently. The local charging station is in an about 10 acre parking lot with a graffiti strewn abandoned building nearest, and a fast food, maybe a jackinthebox, a bit away. Not much else around it. A 45 to 120 minute wait there would seem like an eternity(and could become such based on the area)

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by ducksface

I seem to be the only person in the world who remembers the Australian electric vehicle experiment back in the USA ev1 days.
You pulled up to the 'pump' and a robotic arm removed your battery and inserted a charged battery. Three minutes if I remember correctly.

They had a number of stations and I think it lasted five years or so.

Some things are scrubbed from the internet.
I haven't looked into the story in 10 years or so, maybe the info is back.

Also:
Some of us remember the 'all chrome' FIFTY new trucks from the Atlanta Olympics opening or closing ceremnony.
I don't think there's a real detailed picture of them on the whole interests and Info wise there is but one small snippette from some pagen21 of a small newspaper.

Some things get scrubbed.
If you're interested Ina system which worked, but was too costly at the time like the ev1, see if you can find the Australian info.

We stopped in kingman AZ recently. The local charging station is in an about 10 acre parking lot with a graffiti strewn abandoned building nearest, and a jacks a bit away. Not much else around it. A 45 to 120 minute wait there would seem like an eternity(and could become such based on the area)

Local Supercharger in Kingman or non-Tesla chargers? Well here is the Kingman AZ supercharger station next to a Carl's jr...(Streetview)


You're also forgetting about A Better Place a more recent take on battery swapping. Their deal was that you owned the car but not the batteries. They had automated stations that looked like car washes where you'd pull your car in, it would swap out the battery, and you'd drive away. Looked like this:


They had a bunch of stations in Israel but couldn't make it...

[ducksface]

That's the kingman we happenstancially landed at.
The picture is far more inviting than in person. That's a big parking lot very isolated from things around it except that Carl's.
You can see a bit of the barreness in that picture. Multiply that by an abandoned building in an odd semi industrial dead zone. It doesn't get much freeway or local use. We were the only ones in there from 1pm to 2pm(making calls around town looking for stuff) and the vacant view of that lot is about the view we had, I'll even gamble the truck in the picture was there.

I'm sure it's an obscure and not well thought placement but all that was missing was a freeway homeless accosting you for money.

Given a chance, anyone would pass it by.

I'm thinking the Israeli and Australian thing might be the same company but I'm remembering an open air type thing resembling a black tank dump station. Too long ago, didn't care much then, just a remembrance with me thinking what a great place for a low IQ driver and a fire....

[Chance]

In the short term, rather than swapping batteries, I’d prefer to see electric cars optimized for shorter daily travel in the <150-mile range, which would account for most miles driven, and then have ability to rent an auxiliary power unit which would instantly convert the EV into a hybrid with essentially no range limit compared to traditional automobile.

For long cross-country trips you’d connect the APU with its own fuel tank, fill up at Exxon or Texaco, and go.