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Old 04-03-2017, 04:59 PM   #1
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2015 Vegas 24.1
State: Pennsylvania
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THOR #2601
Girard Tankless Hot Water Heater

I've been doing research on the tankless on-demand propane hot water heater that is now being installed on Vegas & Axis RVs. I do not have this hot water heater in my 2015 Vegas; however, I wanted to ensure the revision I made to the Owners' Manual I compiled is correct regarding the operation of this Tankless Hot Water Heater.

Additionally, I've read in several threads on this forum owners complaining about the lack of hot water or luke warm hot water regarding this hot water heater.

In reading the owners' manual adjusting water temperature in this water heater is counter intuitive to everything we do in regulating the temperature of hot water at a tap. Basically conventional wisdom says regulate the temperature by adjusting the amount of COLD water being mixed at the tap. In terms of this tankless hot water heater -- that is EXACTLY the wrong way to adjust the temperature.

Here is what the Girard GSWH-1 says about the operation of their system and how to increase and/or decrease hot water temperature at the tap or shower head:

"The Girard Products model GSWH-1 is a new 'induced-draft', tankless water heater designed specifically for Recreation Vehicles (RV). Its configuration and size are consistent with the tank based RV water heaters currently in use and is designed for OEM's and after market use by the RV industry. A main feature of the GSWH-1 is a Dual BTU burner, which is set by the Mode Switch to either HIGH (34,000 BTUs) or LOW (27,000 BTUs). The incoming water temperature will raise 40- 60 (F) based on water flow.

A tankless water heater heats water while it is being used i.e., on demand. The output temperature of the water depends on the temperature of the inlet water AND the amount of hot water that is drawn.

To operate, first purge air out of ALL hot and cold water lines, set the Power Switch to the ON position and set the Mode Switch to HIGH, then open the HOT Water Faucet by turning the faucet knob counter clockwise; the water will begin to heat up once the water in the piping has been purged.

DO NOT TURN ON THE COLD WATER. Then DECREASE the flow of the water (turn the faucet knob clockwise) until you achieve the desired temperature. The hot water valve behaves very much like a typical mixing valve: it INCREASES the temperature when the water flow is REDUCED. TO DECREASE THE WATER TEMPERATURE (i.e., make the water
cooler), increase the flow of the water by turning the faucet knob counter clockwise thereby increasing the flow
. DO NOT USE COLD WATER TO ADJUST THE TEMPERATURE.

The presence of a flow restrictor in the hot water line may limit your ability to reach a comfortable water temperature. For best results remove the restrictor in the shower head.
Purge air out of ALL hot and cold water lines, including outside shower and wash machine water lines (if applicable). In a conventional installation the Girard Tankless Water Heater is connected to:
1. The RV's cold water system deriving its water input from a pressurized (45 psi or greater) source such as a shore connection or an RV water pump connected to the fresh water storage tank.
2. The RV's Hot water system (i.e. faucets and shower)
3. The RV's LP Gas system capable of supplying its rated BTU requirement.
4. The RV's 12VDC filtered electrical power distribution panel utilizing a 12 Volt, 10 amp fused line."

The highlighting and emphasis in the above description is mine. I wanted to show that adjusting hot water temperature is achieved by adjusting the flow from the HOT WATER valve -- not by mixing cold water by opening or closing the cold water valve.

Here is a link to the Girard manual:
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/76...-1.html#manual
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:38 PM   #2
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I am anxious to see if this works...Right now I have great water with pump but not on city water supply
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Old 04-16-2017, 06:28 PM   #3
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We have one in the Gemini, its different and takes some getting used to, vs a hot water tank. The problem we have had, is the fan is intermittently touching something as it spins, making excessive noise. Its at the dealers now, for than and a number of other warrantee things.
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:59 PM   #4
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2017 Thor Vegas 24.1
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THOR #7058
Vegas Instant Hot Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by bevedfelker View Post
I've been doing research on the tankless on-demand propane hot water heater that is now being installed on Vegas & Axis RVs. I do not have this hot water heater in my 2015 Vegas; however, I wanted to ensure the revision I made to the Owners' Manual I compiled is correct regarding the operation of this Tankless Hot Water Heater.

Additionally, I've read in several threads on this forum owners complaining about the lack of hot water or luke warm hot water regarding this hot water heater.

In reading the owners' manual adjusting water temperature in this water heater is counter intuitive to everything we do in regulating the temperature of hot water at a tap. Basically conventional wisdom says regulate the temperature by adjusting the amount of COLD water being mixed at the tap. In terms of this tankless hot water heater -- that is EXACTLY the wrong way to adjust the temperature.

Here is what the Girard GSWH-1 says about the operation of their system and how to increase and/or decrease hot water temperature at the tap or shower head:

"The Girard Products model GSWH-1 is a new 'induced-draft', tankless water heater designed specifically for Recreation Vehicles (RV). Its configuration and size are consistent with the tank based RV water heaters currently in use and is designed for OEM's and after market use by the RV industry. A main feature of the GSWH-1 is a Dual BTU burner, which is set by the Mode Switch to either HIGH (34,000 BTUs) or LOW (27,000 BTUs). The incoming water temperature will raise 40- 60 (F) based on water flow.

A tankless water heater heats water while it is being used i.e., on demand. The output temperature of the water depends on the temperature of the inlet water AND the amount of hot water that is drawn.

To operate, first purge air out of ALL hot and cold water lines, set the Power Switch to the ON position and set the Mode Switch to HIGH, then open the HOT Water Faucet by turning the faucet knob counter clockwise; the water will begin to heat up once the water in the piping has been purged.

DO NOT TURN ON THE COLD WATER. Then DECREASE the flow of the water (turn the faucet knob clockwise) until you achieve the desired temperature. The hot water valve behaves very much like a typical mixing valve: it INCREASES the temperature when the water flow is REDUCED. TO DECREASE THE WATER TEMPERATURE (i.e., make the water
cooler), increase the flow of the water by turning the faucet knob counter clockwise thereby increasing the flow
. DO NOT USE COLD WATER TO ADJUST THE TEMPERATURE.

The presence of a flow restrictor in the hot water line may limit your ability to reach a comfortable water temperature. For best results remove the restrictor in the shower head.
Purge air out of ALL hot and cold water lines, including outside shower and wash machine water lines (if applicable). In a conventional installation the Girard Tankless Water Heater is connected to:
1. The RV's cold water system deriving its water input from a pressurized (45 psi or greater) source such as a shore connection or an RV water pump connected to the fresh water storage tank.
2. The RV's Hot water system (i.e. faucets and shower)
3. The RV's LP Gas system capable of supplying its rated BTU requirement.
4. The RV's 12VDC filtered electrical power distribution panel utilizing a 12 Volt, 10 amp fused line."

The highlighting and emphasis in the above description is mine. I wanted to show that adjusting hot water temperature is achieved by adjusting the flow from the HOT WATER valve -- not by mixing cold water by opening or closing the cold water valve.

Here is a link to the Girard manual:
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/76...-1.html#manual

Thanks for this info. Just had our first trip with the vegas 24.1 that has this Instant Girard Instant Hot water system. Shower went from hot to cold and back to hot again.Will try your settings to maintain more of a constant temp.

thanks
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Old 04-22-2017, 11:02 AM   #5
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THOR #7058
The adjustments in the water temp and not mixing with cold water was the perfect solution to my previous problem.
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Old 05-08-2017, 06:21 PM   #6
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On our shake down trip this weekend the biggest problem we had was forgetting to turn it on in our Four Winds 24FS! The controls are in the back by the bed. I am going to put a sticker by the sink to remind us to turn on the instant hot tank otherwise it worked great when turned on!
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Old 05-22-2017, 10:42 PM   #7
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Second trip and we had problems with the system while hooked up to city water. Thankfully for this information we checked for water pressure and there was a leaf in the way. Went back to the water tank and it worked fine. Won't be able to check it out on city water again until our July trip.
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Old 05-23-2017, 12:08 AM   #8
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Model: Axis 24.1 Windjammer
State: Illinois
Posts: 1,179
THOR #7074
Water tank only. Had temp. set to 124 too hot for my showers. I will try 121 next time as recommended by another post. It seems to me that once you find your temp. liking on thermostat keep it. I just want full on in the shower if trying to adjust (when I took shower) seemed only to adjust hot water pressure from trickle to high? That's why I'm thinking adjust at the thermostat and keep on high. Would like to here other's adjustments. Thank you!
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Old 05-25-2017, 01:42 AM   #9
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We use 105F and that works good.
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Old 05-25-2017, 03:37 AM   #10
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I will try that. Thank you!
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Silver Safe-T-Plus Steering Control
SSF-106-40 SumoSprings Solo Front Bump Stop SSR-107-47 SumoSprings Rear Bump Stop
Hellwig 7718 Front Sway Bar & 7180 Rear Sway Bar
Koni FSD Front Shocks 8805-1042 / Koni FSD Rear Shocks 8805-1043
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Old 05-25-2017, 03:52 AM   #11
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Model: Vegas 25.2
State: Oregon
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THOR #6934
I tried this method in out 25.2 and it did not work at all, the water heater was constantly "chasing" the correct temp. We just turn the hot on about 3/4 to full, and then add cold as needed, works perfectly.

The only thing I don't like is the fact that you cannot turn the spray head off and back on without a cold shot as the heater shuts of when flow stops.
Makes it hard to be frugal with water.
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Old 05-25-2017, 02:50 PM   #12
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Learned quickly while showering, do not use the shower head water stop. Got to complete one shower with cold water.
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Old 08-07-2017, 10:32 AM   #13
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THOR #7058
Girard tankless hot water problem

I have a 2017 Vegas with the Girard hot water heater and it works okay when hooked to city water. However, when boondocking and using water pump with fresh water tank it does not.

After several long conversations with Girard, have determined that when operating with water pump there is not enough water pressure to "enable" the girard hot water system. Girard had me fill up a gallon jug from the different facets and time how long it took to fill and that is how they arrived at the conclusion about the reduced pressure not enabling the instant hot water.

If you don't boondock, then you will probably never have this problem because it works fine when hooked to city water with more pressure.

Anyone else that boondocks ever experience this? Final step is to have the local dealer make sure there are no restrictions on the plumbing. That os what Thor tech support suggested. However, do no think that is the problem since there is no problem when connected to the city water.

Would appreciate any feedback if you have had any similar problems.

thanks
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Old 08-07-2017, 12:22 PM   #14
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Have you taken apart the strainer at the water pump? Check for debris, etc. perhaps its blocking enough so the pump can't get the flow right (yeah I know they said pressure but using the "how long to fill a gallon" technique actually measures flow).
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Old 08-07-2017, 12:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
I have a 2017 Vegas with the Girard hot water heater and it works okay when hooked to city water. However, when boondocking and using water pump with fresh water tank it does not.

After several long conversations with Girard, have determined that when operating with water pump there is not enough water pressure to "enable" the girard hot water system. Girard had me fill up a gallon jug from the different facets and time how long it took to fill and that is how they arrived at the conclusion about the reduced pressure not enabling the instant hot water.

If you don't boondock, then you will probably never have this problem because it works fine when hooked to city water with more pressure.

Anyone else that boondocks ever experience this? Final step is to have the local dealer make sure there are no restrictions on the plumbing. That os what Thor tech support suggested. However, do no think that is the problem since there is no problem when connected to the city water.

Would appreciate any feedback if you have had any similar problems.

thanks
I was primitive back in early July for a weekend and used the water pump and water from my holding tank. I took a shower each morning (2 mornings) and it worked flawless, kept the 105 degree temp perfectly. Thus Jaime may be correct with the debris suggestion.
Jeff
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Old 08-07-2017, 12:47 PM   #16
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Thanks Jamie. I am taking into dealer and will add that to the checklist. The gallon jug test was the only suggestion they had but I also did the same test when connected to the city water and it was good and enabled the heater.

If there was trash in the strainer would that also not affect when hooked to city water? Appreciate the help.
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Old 08-07-2017, 12:49 PM   #17
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Thanks JWilliams. Got that check at the top of my list.
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Old 08-07-2017, 01:01 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo
If there was trash in the strainer would that also not affect when hooked to city water? Appreciate the help.
No, the strainer is between the tank and the pump. City water bypasses all of that.
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Old 08-07-2017, 01:26 PM   #19
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Okay. Thank you for that.
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Old 08-07-2017, 02:44 PM   #20
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Model: Vegas 25.2
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We had the same issue when hooked to city water using a pressure reducer. Would not work right until we took it out.
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