Omni Ultra Level

[chunker21]

The Omni XG32 needs the leveling system recalibrated, setting Zero Point Calibration, since it either wasn't set, to set not actually level. As a matter of technique when setting the calibration and/or manual leveling, is it best to raise the jacks until just supported or get it "up a ways". If set just supported how much movement/ rocking occurs when moving around? I'm wondering about how stable it is when set up.

[HarryS]

I don't believe the leveling system looks at height, just level. So, level it manually first, put the slides out, relevel if necessary, then set the zero point.

[Bob Denman]

https://www.thorforums.com/forums/at...1&d=1622831479

[Judge]

Personally, I have stopped using AutoLevel. While in theory it is a good idea, it tends to over-work itself because it can not reason like a human.

I place a small level in the center of the floor near the front. Then another level in the center of the coach at the kitchen and then a third level in the center of the floor at the entrance to the bedroom.

I find that I can do a much better job leveling and I do not cause the chassis to twist and torque nearly as much as it does with AutoLevel.

I persinally think AutoLevel helped expose the issue if the cab-over mounting issue Thor has had with the Super C's and developed on my Magnitude. The twisting and torquing that AutoLevel can put strain on the cab-over moutning points at the house box and too much can cause the screws to pull out or break.

[chunker21]

I'm parked on a fairly level pad under the pole barn but after leveling with a minimum of extension, when I do an auto level it still picks up the left front tire. Tried with no blocks under the front jacks, and a section of 6x6. There is no water in the tank so the back end is fairly high and then when the rear jacks extend and lift a bit, the front has to extend even more which lifts the front. Tired of messing with that for now so later I'll drive the front onto a 2x12 board to help get the front up and see how it likes that. Yes Judge the system is rather abrupt, nothing subtle about it. I had the Lippert Level Up system on the Raptor and it wasn't jerky and you could retract specific sides not have to take all at once.

[EA37TS]

Read the manual on setting the zero point. I believe LCI says set it with slide in on a level surface.

I use auto level only on this coach and on the previous Challenger. My current Equalizer system is nowhere near as jerky as Thor’s Level Up system was.

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

Read the manual on setting the zero point. I believe LCI says set it with slide in on a level surface.

I use auto level only on this coach and on the previous Challenger. My current Equalizer system is nowhere near as jerky as Thor’s Level Up system was.

I did. Didn't get that manual in the packet so I downloaded and printed out out. I've set the zero point 3 times and each time after doing so I've retracted the jacks and hit the auto level with what I described earlier, front comes off the ground.

[Judge]

This is probably the procedure you are following but I thought i would add it just in case. This came from the LCI Ultra Level Manual:



Level Zero Point Calibration

Before the auto leveling features are available, the Level Zero Point must be set. This is the point to which the system will return when an auto leveling cycle is initiated. To set the Zero Point (controller module must be fully secured in production-intent location), first run a manual leveling sequence to get the vehicle to the desired level point. Then activate the Level Zero Point configuration mode. This mode is enabled by performing the following sequence.

1. Turn the Touch Pad OFF.

2. Turn the Touch Pad ON and perform the following:
A. Press the Front button 5 times.
B. Press the Rear button 5 times.

NOTE: At this point all LED outputs will blink. This indicates the system is in the IDLE mode ready to set Zero Point.

3. Press the Retract All button 3 times.

NOTE: All LEDs will go out except the WAIT light. The WAIT light will blink continuously for approximately 20 seconds while the Level Zero Point is being programmed into the controller.


Here is why I think AutoLevel struggles......

To properly measure level on a coach over 25', you should be checking level near the front, center and rear in my opinion.

Some LCI Leveleing systems have a separate rear sensor that plugs into the Controller and can be mounted anywhere in the coach. The Controller acts as the front sensor from its mounting point and then the rear sensor measures the rear level.

From what I can find with the LCI Ultra Level System, there is no remote rear sensor. From the LCI schematics it looks like only the Controller measures the level.

On my SV34, the Controller is mounted in the large storage compartment behind the mandoor on the passenger side of the coach. Measuring the level that far off center and further forward of center is not ideal.

Next, the Omni / Magnitude tends to be heavier on the drivers side because of the full wall slde but even the XG32's larger slide is on the drivers side with the fridge, furnace, water heater, etc. The coach defintely sits lower on the drivers side. This was very evident to me after I installed Sumo Springs. When sitting on the ground with no support from the jacks, the rear driver side Sumo spring is much more compressed than the passenger side. Thor should have added a leaf spring or heavier leafs to the drivers side to better balance the coach.

So now you have a coach that naturally sits low on the drivers side and the mechanism that measures level is on the passenger side towards the front of center. I believe this is why AutoLevel struggles. Throw in an uneven parking spot and then you really have a challenge.

After I took my coach in to have the front cab-over structure mounting issue repaired, I talked to the techs at the Thor Service Center and they agreed manual level was the way to go.

So I place me three levels inside the coach and then I manual level and get it as close to center on all three levels as possible..... but depending on the site..... I might favor the driver's side being a little higher because I know when I extend the slide that side could drop a little of the ground is not super solid because of the weight of the slide.

Now I had the LCI Level-Up system in my Outlaw 29H. I also liked it better because it had the LCD display that would provide informational messages AND all four jacks could be moved independently in manual mode. The LCI Level-Up system also had the separate rear sensor. On these longer coaches, they should be using two sensors and not one.

Here are the diagrams of the LCI Ultra Level System vs the LCI Level-Up System. You can see the Ultra Level system does not support the rear sensor like the LEvel-Up system does. I suspect Thor is using Ultra Level to cut costs.

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by Judge

This is probably the procedure you are following but I thought i would add it just in case. This came from the LCI Ultra Level Manual:


Next, the Omni / Magnitude tends to be heavier on the drivers side because of the full wall slde but even the XG32's larger slide is on the drivers side with the fridge, furnace, water heater, etc. The coach defintely sits lower on the drivers took my coach in to have the front cab-over structure mounting issue repaired, I talked to the techs at the Thor Service Center and they agreed manual level was the way to go.

So I place me three levels inside the coach and then I manual level and get it as close to center on all three levels as possible..... but depending on the site..... I might favor the driver's side being a little higher because I know when I extend the slide that side could drop a little of the ground is not super solid because of the weight of the slid.
I suspect Thor is using Ultra Level to cut costs.

[COLOR="red"]Yes that's the procedure I used.



I'm going to take it to the scales soon and get a relatively empty weight. I say relatively because my GF has already started packing it with what I had in the TH

I suspect that's the core issue, cheap quality. I may end up using the manual feature as well. Looks like the worst type site is one that slopes down towards the front which is going to cause the system to "over-raise" the front off the ground. Preleveling boards will go in.


When I set the level manually prior to the zero level point calibration, I was using a 2.5' level and the only place wide enough with the slides in was the bathroom area. I wanted as accurate as possible to zero it in. But I noticed that across that width, the floor wasn't perfectly straight so any level, while made close, wasn't 100%. It's an RV and everything a compromise. I'll get over this and the bumper issue and enjoy it.

[chunker21]

Here's another thought on the leveling issue. The Omni sitting on the F-550 chassis, maybe especially the 4X4 version, doesn't have a lot of front suspension travel. When you start raising the frame/house to get it level, it easily raises the front off the ground. Parking on hard surface, concrete, like I am now the coach isn't going to settle, but on a soft surface it likely will and having a wheel or 2 off the ground could lead to some frame tweaking. Thus the pre-leveling boards. I used them on my Itasca DP so no big deal to keep using them. A little extra work but I'm not on the clock anymore.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by chunker21

When I set the level manually prior to the zero level point calibration, I was using a 2.5' level and the only place wide enough with the slides in was the bathroom area. I wanted as accurate as possible to zero it in. But I noticed that across that width, the floor wasn't perfectly straight so any level, while made close, wasn't 100%. It's an RV and everything a compromise. I'll get over this and the bumper issue and enjoy it.

That is why I use three small level. I figure the floor is probably not plumb so just picking three small points front to back would give me the best measurement points.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by chunker21

Here's another thought on the leveling issue. The Omni sitting on the F-550 chassis, maybe especially the 4X4 version, doesn't have a lot of front suspension travel. When you start raising the frame/house to get it level, it easily raises the front off the ground. Parking on hard surface, concrete, like I am now the coach isn't going to settle, but on a soft surface it likely will and having a wheel or 2 off the ground could lead to some frame tweaking. Thus the pre-leveling boards. I used them on my Itasca DP so no big deal to keep using them. A little extra work but I'm not on the clock anymore.

I built a pole building for storage and the concrete floor has a gentle slope from back to front for any water draining if I pull the coach in wet. I have to raise my front much more to level in my garage as a result of the slope.

I ended up adding Sumo Springs all the way around to provide some added stability and to soften the ride on rougher roads.

There was a pretty good gap in the front bump stops. There seemed to be some decent downward travel available but there may not but there may not be much in the upward direction.

I think one other thing to consider is the back half of the coach is significantly heavier than the front half of the coach and that impacts the suspension travel all the way around.

[HarryS]

I have a bubble level for side to side, located on the dash, just above the level touch pad. For front to back, I use the bathroom door, when it stays where I put it, the rig's level.

[chunker21]

After going through a few trips, many setups including leveling, I don't use the auto-level feature as was discussed earlier. I've also tried to figure a way to temper the system so it's not so violent and rough. Apparently no way to adjust anything to slow the extension or retractions of the jacks.

Today I called Lippert to discuss it and they confirmed there are no adjustments to the system but did say the leveling and retraction wasn't supposed to be rough and as she put it "we haven't had any complaints about the system being violent or abrupt". Yeah right!!! They transferred me to parts to see if any of the components are the same as other more user friendly systems such as Level Up. No is the answer according to them. I was hoping that I could change controllers and maybe that would allow less abrupt use, but not so according to them.

I may be faced with replacing the system in it's entirety with something like the Bigfoot or HWH. I'll further research Lippert part numbers because I don't have confidence their CS gave good or accurate answers. Too quick to say no. Meanwhile if anyone here has made a change, input is welcome.

[Judge]

The only thing I’ve considered doing is researching whether the wiring harness between the Controller and KeyPad is the same as the LCI Level-Up system I had on my Outlaw. If it is, then I would consider swapping the Controller and KeyPad so I could get independent control of each jack….. plus the LED display.

From eyeing them up…. the Power Units look identical between the two systems. That means a Controller and KeyPad swap would do the trick if the wiring harness is the same.

I don’t think I’d spend the money on a new leveling system at this point…. Unless there was a major failure and the cost to fix was close to a replacement system.

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by Judge

The only thing I’ve considered doing is researching whether the wiring harness between the Controller and KeyPad is the same as the LCI Level-Up system I had on my Outlaw. If it is, then I would consider swapping the Controller and KeyPad so I could get independent control of each jack….. plus the LED display.

From eyeing them up…. the Power Units look identical between the two systems. That means a Controller and KeyPad swap would do the trick if the wiring harness is the same.

I don’t think I’d spend the money on a new leveling system at this point…. Unless there was a major failure and the cost to fix was close to a replacement system.

I'm trying to research the Lippert site with not much luck yet except it appears the jacks are common. I called and talked to Bigfoot about their system and it would be around $6K to replace what I've got. More research is needed before I spend that much. The Level up, Lippert product, I had on my Keystone Raptor worked good and it would retract pairs of jacks, not dump them all. Yesterday I installed the Centramatic balancers and used the level system to raise a side. That entailed quite a bit of jack extension per side and when I did the manual retract it was very abrupt. Enough so that I checked the front cap to make sure it was still attached. I tried to manual retract with just short pushes but the system wasn't having any of that though.

[Judge]

I just did some quick research and the Ultra Level and Level-Up Systems appear to have the same wiring harnesses.

They both use a 12-pin connctor from the Controller to the Power Unit. They also appear to use the same 4-pin connector for the Control Panel.

The Power Units also appear to use the same motor, pressure sensor and manifold.

I think the Ultra Level Controller and Control Pad can be swapped out with the Level-Up Controller and Control Pad to give you better control of the jacks plus the LCD display.

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by Judge

I just did some quick research and the Ultra Level and Level-Up Systems appear to have the same wiring harnesses.

They both use a 12-pin connctor from the Controller to the Power Unit. They also appear to use the same 4-pin connector for the Control Panel.

The Power Units also appear to use the same motor, pressure sensor and manifold.

I think the Ultra Level Controller and Control Pad can be swapped out with the Level-Up Controller and Control Pad to give you better control of the jacks plus the LCD display.

Thanks Im looked at that and noticed the Level Up has a rear sensor. It also stated somewhere it's for trailers but not sure that would be a real restriction. I didn't yet compare motor, pump and wiring part numbers. I did look at the Power Gear version and it appears similar to the Ultra Level in operation.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by chunker21

Thanks Im looked at that and noticed the Level Up has a rear sensor. It also stated somewhere it's for trailers but not sure that would be a real restriction. I didn't yet compare motor, pump and wiring part numbers. I did look at the Power Gear version and it appears similar to the Ultra Level in operation.

I did neglect to mention adding the additional sensor. That does help improve the Auto Level function with the two leveling points. I’m not sure if the system can just be manually leveled without the additinal sensor or whether it would kick out an error.

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by Judge

I did neglect to mention adding the additional sensor. That does help improve the Auto Level function with the two leveling points. I’m not sure if the system can just be manually leveled without the additinal sensor or whether it would kick out an error.

Assuming the wiring between the existing control panel and the controller are the same for the systems, adding the rear sensor shouldn't be too difficult using the same controller mounting location. My parts sleuthing will continue tomorrow.

EDIT I lied. Both controllers have 9 wires going to the pump and valve assembly, not counting the rear sensor. This might be doable but need to see tomorrow how affordable.