RV News RVBusiness 2021 Top 10 RVs of the Year, plus 56 additional debuts and must-see units → ×
 

Go Back   Thor Forums > Thor Tech Forums > Motorhome Tech Topics
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-06-2019, 01:45 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 4,940
THOR #2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieGeek View Post
Well this has been a bit of a surprise LOL: Not a single comment about the Easy Start unit reducing the surge current at startup (and the noise).

Seems to me that is the biggest reason its difficult to run two A/Cs off 30 amps. I've been able to run the A/C in all our RV's off the 15 amp circuit (not all at once ) in the garage if I'm careful about what else is running on that circuit when the compressor kicks on. The Easy Start guy may fix that (and also kill the startup noise which my wife hates).

I should have been more direct with post #2. Sorry. However, your title was about running 2 A/Cs on 30 Amps, not about soft starters. Again, I apologize.

Soft start allows starting two larger A/Cs, but why would you want to on a rig small enough that it came from factory with a single 15,000? You might be able to get them started, but then there is so little power left you canít do anything else.

If you settle for about 50% cooling capacity increase, then Iím not sure you need the soft start anyway, so why spend the money? Granted I had not considered the start-up noise which I often avoid by setting thermostat very cold so A/C doesnít turn off.

Anyway, since no one had responded to thread, I shared news on additional Power Saver models because they may play a role in powering 2 A/Cs from 30A service.
__________________

__________________
Chance is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 02:29 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Newmar Bay Star Sport 300
State: Alabama
Posts: 3,254
THOR #6826
One of he best arguments for 2 units is to have at least some cooling if there is a problem with the AC. I had my single unit fail on a summer day many years ago in an 18 ft. travel trailer. It was only like 80 degrees but became so miserable inside that we had to abort the trip.
__________________

__________________
Pete'sMH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 02:38 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
The Gritz Carlton's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: THOR Chateua 35SF
State: Georgia
Posts: 4,051
THOR #11130
^^^BINGO^^^...anyone that knows me knows I'm all about "back up" everything. "One in None...Two is One".
__________________
2018 THOR Chateau 35SF
Two Labs, Bugsie & Blondie
The Gritz Carlton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 03:22 PM   #24
I Think We're Lost!
 
Bob Denman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 18,448
THOR #8860
Spoken like a NASA engineer!
__________________
"The World is full of Kings and Queens; who blind your eyes, and steal your dreams."
Good Sam Member 843599689
Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
Bob Denman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 05:32 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 4,940
THOR #2121
I watched video a second time, and noticed he has two 15,000 BTU/hr Penguins, which for newer A/Cs are rated at 1762 Watts at 115V. In video he mentions and shows they pull lower current after startup, but Iíd bet that if left running for a while on a hot day, the 1762 Watts isnít too far off, which is 15 Amps or higher.

So, to my previous point, running two of these on 30A service isnít something Iíd count on doing. Not enough margin. I can see that if he started out with one 15000 Penguin, that adding a second identical unit to match would be tempting.

However, if you have to add two soft starters at ~ $300 each, why not replace both A/Cs instead?



Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieGeek View Post
Well this has been a bit of a surprise LOL: Not a single comment about the Easy Start unit reducing the surge current at startup (and the noise).

Seems to me that is the biggest reason its difficult to run two A/Cs off 30 amps. I've been able to run the A/C in all our RV's off the 15 amp circuit (not all at once ) in the garage if I'm careful about what else is running on that circuit when the compressor kicks on. The Easy Start guy may fix that (and also kill the startup noise which my wife hates).
__________________
Chance is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 06:01 PM   #26
I Think We're Lost!
 
Bob Denman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 18,448
THOR #8860
I wonder if that Easy-Start unit will help to prolong the life of the /c?
__________________
"The World is full of Kings and Queens; who blind your eyes, and steal your dreams."
Good Sam Member 843599689
Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
Bob Denman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 06:02 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
The Gritz Carlton's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: THOR Chateua 35SF
State: Georgia
Posts: 4,051
THOR #11130
His "disclaimer" at 3:01..."but you can use any power source that you've successfully run your air conditioners on before". If they've run successfully on that power source before...why do you need to change it??
__________________
2018 THOR Chateau 35SF
Two Labs, Bugsie & Blondie
The Gritz Carlton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 06:13 PM   #28
I Think We're Lost!
 
Bob Denman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 18,448
THOR #8860
Less amperage draw at startup?

If you're just running on a/c: no problem!
It's when you want to fire up the second one on the same circuit...
__________________
"The World is full of Kings and Queens; who blind your eyes, and steal your dreams."
Good Sam Member 843599689
Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
Bob Denman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 06:17 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
The Gritz Carlton's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: THOR Chateua 35SF
State: Georgia
Posts: 4,051
THOR #11130
He said..."air conditioners"
__________________
2018 THOR Chateau 35SF
Two Labs, Bugsie & Blondie
The Gritz Carlton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 06:19 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
Long & Winding road's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2017 Axis 25.4
State: Arkansas
Posts: 2,621
THOR #12231
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton View Post
His "disclaimer" at 3:01..."but you can use any power source that you've successfully run your air conditioners on before". If they've run successfully on that power source before...why do you need to change it??
Good point but sometimes you get the extra sensative breakers that trip when you look at them crosseyed.

Or if you shore powers works find but you want to use your $5K lithium power bank that you told your wife would run the AC's fine for a few hours and you "just have to have them".
__________________
2017 Axis / 25.4: Big Foot Levelers, Aims 1200 Watt inverter, Ceramic Window Tint, Full River AGM 6V batteries, Front Hellwig Sway bar / Rear Track Arm, Safe T Plus Steering Stabilizer, PD 4655 converter, Hard Wired Surge Guard, WEboost + WiFi Ranger, LED Headlights/Driving lights, TPMS, Surge tank, Tornado flush, Viair Compressor
Long & Winding road is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2019, 09:06 PM   #31
Axis/Vegas Enthusiast
 
JamieGeek's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.1
State: Michigan
Posts: 9,240
THOR #1150
Well I went and did it anyway, installed the EasyStart on our Axis.

Didn't take any pictures because they did already. The installation manual (pdf) pictures (pages 4-9) exactly matched our Coleman Mach.

After installation our A/C doesn't draw any more than 12 amps (the initial 5 amps is just the fan on the A/C running):


Now I'm not going to install a 2nd A/C. I installed it for two reasons:
  • With it only drawing 12 amps max I can run it off a 15 amp circuit
  • On startup there is no more loud clunk (can't even hear anything in the above video)

Are those reasons enough for $300? I guess they were for me (a good nights sleep is invaluable LOL--I know the wife is going to love it--that alone is worth a lot LOL).

I did notice a drawback: The EasyStart doubles the compressor off time (I think its 10 minutes after running vs 5 minutes normally). Thus if you're somewhere hot enough that the A/C cycles a lot I can see it being a little warmer in the coach with the compressor not running as much.
__________________
2014 Thor Axis 24.1
2021 Mach-E
blog - https://spareelectrons.wordpress.com/
JamieGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2019, 09:33 PM   #32
Site Team
 
16ACE27's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 5,657
THOR #7035
Not sure why it would change the restart delay. But the good news is now you can run the AC off a Honda 2000 inverter generator. They could always start the ACs, they just tripped out on overcurrent after a few minutes. They're rated at 13.3 amps continuous.
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Alternate Toad
16ACE27 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2019, 09:59 PM   #33
Axis/Vegas Enthusiast
 
JamieGeek's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.1
State: Michigan
Posts: 9,240
THOR #1150
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
Not sure why it would change the restart delay. But the good news is now you can run the AC off a Honda 2000 inverter generator. They could always start the ACs, they just tripped out on overcurrent after a few minutes. They're rated at 13.3 amps continuous.
The restart delay change is designed into the unit.
__________________
2014 Thor Axis 24.1
2021 Mach-E
blog - https://spareelectrons.wordpress.com/
JamieGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2019, 10:36 PM   #34
Senior Member
 
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 4,940
THOR #2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
Not sure why it would change the restart delay. But the good news is now you can run the AC off a Honda 2000 inverter generator. They could always start the ACs, they just tripped out on overcurrent after a few minutes. They're rated at 13.3 amps continuous.
Heat most likely. It needs time to cool off ó either the device itself and or the compressor must be getting warm during start-up.

Once A/C is running, current should be the same, so Iím not following your Honda example. Itís usually the other way ó small generators canít start A/C but could keep it running if already started, which is where these soft starts help most.
__________________
Chance is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2019, 11:57 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Hurricane 31S
State: Texas
Posts: 2,421
THOR #6411
30 amp circuit breakers are rated at 28 amps continuous when new. Every time they are tripped they degrade a little. The 30 amp circuit breaker can handle 30 amps for about 10 minutes before it trips. My coach was refitted with an EMS. The main 15,000 Coleman Mach 15 draws 15 amps when turned on (after compressor spin-up). On hot days after running for an hour or more its draw is up to 18 amps total. My Coleman Mach 8 Cub draws 12 amps and temperature doesn't seem to matter. So no, both will not operate for very long on 30 amps on a hot day. I haven't tried it on a 80 degree day as only one A/C is need to keep the coach cool.
__________________
Jim & Roy Davis
2016 Hurricane 31S
1961 Rampside in tow
Beau388 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2019, 03:39 AM   #36
Site Team
 
16ACE27's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 5,657
THOR #7035
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieGeek View Post
The restart delay change is designed into the unit.
Sure, but my question was "why". BTW, what size is your AC?
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Alternate Toad
16ACE27 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2019, 03:46 AM   #37
Site Team
 
16ACE27's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 5,657
THOR #7035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance View Post
Once A/C is running, current should be the same,
I would agree but Jamies said he is only pulling a max of 12 amps now - don't know what it pulled before the mod.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance View Post
Iím not following your Honda example. Itís usually the other way ó small generators canít start A/C but could keep it running if already started, which is where these soft starts help most.
You would think so but i have seen the Honda 2000s start 15K BTU ACs but trip out after about a minute. I don't think the competitors can start them but that Honda handles the starting current like a champ.
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Alternate Toad
16ACE27 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2019, 11:49 AM   #38
Senior Member
 
The Gritz Carlton's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: THOR Chateua 35SF
State: Georgia
Posts: 4,051
THOR #11130
My Honda 2000 will not run one A/C. At startup, the fan comes on first for a few seconds...no issues...the second the compressor tries to kick in, the breaker on the 2000 pops. It doesn't take a few minutes. the Champion 3100 will run one of them but it seems like a labor of love for a second or two as the compressor kicks in.
__________________
2018 THOR Chateau 35SF
Two Labs, Bugsie & Blondie
The Gritz Carlton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2019, 11:57 AM   #39
Axis/Vegas Enthusiast
 
JamieGeek's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.1
State: Michigan
Posts: 9,240
THOR #1150
We have the smaller 13.5k unit on our Axis which ran 12 amps before the mod--the mod doesn't change the running current draw, just reduces the start current (the video at the beginning of this thread shows that).

In another thread where I installed that volt/amp meter I measured a bunch of things and pretty much all the high current appliances in our coach (hair dryer, water heater on electric, air conditioning, hot plate, microwave, etc.) draw about 12 amps (which makes sense since a few were designed to operate off of a 15 amp circuit).

I don't have a picture of the volt/amp meter showing the starting current of our A/C prior to the mod, however. I believe that was somewhere around 20 amps if I recall correctly. I do know that it would blow the house breaker on our 15 amp garage circuit when the compressor would kick in.
__________________
2014 Thor Axis 24.1
2021 Mach-E
blog - https://spareelectrons.wordpress.com/
JamieGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2019, 12:47 PM   #40
Senior Member
 
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 4,940
THOR #2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieGeek View Post

......cut.....

I don't have a picture of the volt/amp meter showing the starting current of our A/C prior to the mod, however. I believe that was somewhere around 20 amps if I recall correctly. I do know that it would blow the house breaker on our 15 amp garage circuit when the compressor would kick in.
I doubt normal volt/amp meters can capture the initial and almost instantaneous current that A/C compressors draw when they first get power. Manufacturers like Coleman list the Lock Rotor Amps (LRA) in spec sheets, and itís always much higher than 20-Amp range. The lowest Iíve seen is in the low 40s for the 11,000 BTU/hr Power Saver, with most being in the 50s and 60s. But this happens for only a very small fraction of a second as you know.

Iíve measured the start-up current on my A/C with a hand held Amp clamp that records the peak, and it doesnít come close to the LRA either.

Regarding Honda 2,000/1,600 Watt generators, there are plenty of reports of them starting 11,000 Power Saver A/Cs. I suppose the newer 2,200/1,800 Watt generators should do even better. It would not surprise me if they could start a 13,500 Power Saver.



P.S. ó To your point about time delay due to soft start being an issue in hot weather, I doubt it will be noticed, but if it is under those conditions, a simple fix is to just set A/C temperature lower so it doesnít cycle off for a minute or two. A couple of degrees cooler should keep it running 100% of the time under those conditions.
__________________

__________________
Chance is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Thor Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.




All times are GMT. The time now is 08:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
×