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Old 07-06-2022, 06:58 PM   #41
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Is remarkable on road at highwayd speeds, trailer has minimal impact. Best ever was 11.01 w/o trailer, 10.72 with trailer. I expected a big hit going across Smokeis, wss not bad at all. Short of big grades, v-10 performance was non issue. 6 speed and 4.56 rear gear, MPG seems stuck at 9 to 11 MPG in the 60 to 65 MPH range. Head winds equate to running higher speed. Otherwise, I do not see any cost effective manner of making a major efficiency improvement and still meet current requirements. Having trailer behind may kill vac bubble behind unit. I am over 50 MPH almost 99% of time.

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Old 07-06-2022, 07:00 PM   #42
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High-five?

And the fuel you cause those vehicles behind you to use as you drive obliviously while they're doing the yoyo conga line 15 cars in a row while you play gas mileage?

I may be wrong.

I believe, heartily, that if you can't do the speed limit you need severely taxed for selfishness or incompetence, whichever is the driving force.

I find no reason other than
too incompetent to meet the limit,
or
Dead. On. Selfishness.

Yesterday I dropped off some hikers.
I'm doing 65 in a 65 zone.
Someone comes flying up on my tail.
Before the flyer could get close enough to have to slow down I pulled over on the side.
Hiker asked me what I was doing
'Im letting that guy go around me'
But you were doing the limit!
'that car is now gone. He hopefully is talking about the courtesy levied, and I don't have to deal with him ever again.'

Try it.
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Old 07-06-2022, 07:09 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwray View Post
...
Wifey and I give each other high-fives when we achieve 6.07 mpg. We’re at 12,000+ miles in our fourth year of RV’ing.
and this is where most of the fuel saving projects end.
If you run 100K miles/year (semi trucks) there is a lot of $ spent on fuel therefore a 5% reduction in fuel consumption can justify some serious $ on projects to reduce drag.

@ 3000 miles per year and $5/gallon, a 5% reduction in fuel consumption means only $125 of saving per year so if you want to recover the investment in fuel savings in two years, you have only $250 to invest in something to bring 5% reduction (which is not easy)...

To make things less possible yet, just this last week I saw around here a drop in fuel price of 5% and the lower the cost of the fuel goes the less $ exist to justify the investment...

Honestly, in my view, efforts to kill the oddity of "climate change" fantasy have way more chances to reduce energy cost and bring faster results than all the potential technical viable but financially lunatic projects.
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Old 07-06-2022, 08:15 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
And the fuel you cause those vehicles behind you to use while doing the yoyo conga line 15 cars in a row?
I may be wrong.

I believe, heartily, that if you can't do the speed limit you need severely taxed for selfishness or incompetence, whichever is the driving force.
Ha, ha.... Is good point. I generally run what traffic around me does. I do not get passed often. 99% of my miles are on highway, little on secondary roads. I honestly do not worry about MPG, the RV is meeting expectations and serves great as moble hotel room. Simple math kills ROI on newer tech.
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Old 07-06-2022, 09:01 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by plastrd View Post
Everyone focuses on the front but all the reasons already stated in this thread make that a pointless endeavor because they create compromises.

The other air drag is the big vacuum bubble you're dragging along behind you due to the vertical wall at the back and the lumpy underside and top side of the vehicle. This is where semi trailer manufacturers focus their efforts with side skirting and those trailer tails.

This has the best chance of actually being a cost effective approach where trucking companies have already demonstrated a 1-5% fuel savings (according to wikipedia, plenty of articles also reference numbers in the range). They can be retrofitted to existing trailers/vehicles and there are fully automated ones that open/close based on speed so the user doesn't even need to remember to flip the switch.

That said, 5% of 8mpg is still less than a half mpg gain so you'd really need to put some miles on like those semi drivers to make it a good investment. I'd still like to see some innovations like that in the RV market. Or some innovation anywhere in the RV market if I'm being honest.
I don't totally agree with that. Comparing different shapes was investigated by NACA in the 1930s. A bullet has a cd of 0.35 where a pyramid has a cd of 1.25 with the blunt end forward. That showed the rounded nose is much more important than the a sleek tail.
Second there is the Vamm tail theory. < https://citroenvie.com/proof-that-bertoni-applied-kamm-tail-benefits-to-the-sleek-ds> I had a 1959 Fiat Abarth Zagato 750 GT for 30 years. It had the standard 43 hp at 5,800 rpm engine, It could hit 109 mph in a long straight at VIR. I drove it daily for 15 years and raced it for 15 more in vintage races. It has a Vann tail.

Look at the Shelby 427 Cobras. The roadster could hit 188 mph at La Mans on the Mulsanne straight (3.7 miles) where as the Shelby Cobra coupe was clocked at 221 mph. The beautiful Cobra coupe has the Vann tail.
My aero is a little rusty but I think it would take a 12 ft long slopping tail on a 8.5x12x40 ft coach to keep the flow laminar.
Your are correct in thinking a bumpy under-body and protuberances on the top (A/C, vent covers) make sure there is only turbulent flow in those areas, but hopefully, no flow separation except in the rear.
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Old 07-06-2022, 10:00 PM   #46
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The lack of public support for investment in conservation is a direct reflection of a lacking U.S. conservation mindset. We've been fed the "land of milk and honey" line for so long that the majority now believe it.
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Old 07-06-2022, 10:09 PM   #47
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Not really.
We've heard this green bull for most of the past four generations and some have wised up.

When the green folk acknowledge ancient Greek cities 60ft under water for the last 1,000+ years IS JUST THE WAY IT IS, and that the human existence part of global weather change is less than 5%...maybe, just maybe, we can get off of a platform where one of their goddesses has
Selective mute-ism
and their barons travel in private jets.

The whole movement is ran like a bad snl skit.
The lack of sincerity by the movers, and the pandering to those with an inability to discern, is just shameful.
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Old 07-06-2022, 10:14 PM   #48
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Gas mileage is a hobby, maybe even a derangement.
A hobby incongruent with RV.

You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, or you shouldn't be allowed in polite society.

Some take this speculation of the future and change to nauseating lengths.


Live for today a bit.
I second that!!
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Old 07-06-2022, 10:20 PM   #49
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Conservation is a human concept... the "Green New Deal" (or whatever the popular term is ) is a political construct.

Fortunately the two are COMPLETELY unrelated.
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Old 07-06-2022, 10:35 PM   #50
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Conservation...

When you choose to squirrel/rabbit hunt with a .22 rifle instead of a 20ga shotgun. Accomplish the same task with 12¢ rounds instead of wasting 40¢ shells.

Now THAT'S conservation...
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Old 07-06-2022, 10:46 PM   #51
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On the topic of mileage, when I can find a tractor trailer going the same direction and about the same speed as I want to go (about 75% of the time), I stay on his tail as long as possible. Does it make a difference? I haven't a damn clue!

What kind of mileage do I get? I measured it three times -- imprecisely all three times -- and think it's in the 8-10 range. That's about as much as I can tell ya.

There was a time, back in the 90s, when I'd drive 10 miles to save .06¢ a gallon on gas. Now gas is 400+% more expensive, I get at least 50% worse mileage, and wouldn't cross a 4-lane road to save .03¢ a gallon.

I'm greener than the trees outside my window but I'm also pragmatic. That extra $1.50 spent at the more convenient, but more expensive, gas station isn't going to take any food off my table. And the environment will suffer the same effects no matter which station I choose.
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Old 07-06-2022, 10:57 PM   #52
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I can pick up a mile per gallon(per the torque app) when drafting a truck.
I'm juuussst inside their blind spot for my 24.1.

I'll follow a good driver for a full tank full if I get a chance. I cut him in when he needs to pass, slide over to give him room to slide over when someone is getting on from a ramp, that sort of thing. It seems to smooth it all out a bit.
But
I'm not much for drafting on purpose.
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Old 07-07-2022, 01:49 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Chance View Post
We do not have to get out in left field to discuss a subject seriously based on facts and data. It may actually help educate a few prospective buyers to better understand RV choices they will make.


https://www.rvlifemag.com/andy-thoms...v-hitch-hints/


Above is not a scientific test but makes the point nonetheless. A larger and heavier trailer can be more fuel efficient by simply being more aerodynamic.

.
You just made me think, why can't a trailer lean back and when parked be pushed straight up when parked. Why can't a motorhome have a slanted windshield with a smaller bed above
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Old 07-07-2022, 02:45 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
High-five?

And the fuel you cause those vehicles behind you to use as you drive obliviously while they're doing the yoyo conga line 15 cars in a row while you play gas mileage?

I may be wrong.

I believe, heartily, that if you can't do the speed limit you need severely taxed for selfishness or incompetence, whichever is the driving force.

I find no reason other than
too incompetent to meet the limit,
or
Dead. On. Selfishness.

Yesterday I dropped off some hikers.
I'm doing 65 in a 65 zone.
Someone comes flying up on my tail.
Before the flyer could get close enough to have to slow down I pulled over on the side.
Hiker asked me what I was doing
'Im letting that guy go around me'
But you were doing the limit!
'that car is now gone. He hopefully is talking about the courtesy levied, and I don't have to deal with him ever again.'

Try it.

Really?

Your opinion is that I should take a 24,000 pound vehicle towing another 9,000 vehicle and go faster than the posted speed limit when others are doing it so I keep up with all the little cagers zipping around in a rush, and i should stomp on the gas pedal as hard as I can every time there is a hill or an opportunity to do so—because to otherwise is “inconsiderate to others” or because if i don’t I am are being selfish or I can’t and am incompetent?

When I’m in my Audi on the interstate, I’m a relative leadfoot. I pass by semis with their limiters keeping them at 62-67 and don’t think anything of it. I pass other trucks hauling camping trailers or other RVs all the time and admire their rigs, and feel a pang of jealousy as I wonder to what great adventures they are on. I guess I should take a page from Duckface, pity at their obvious incompetence for not going as fast as I am, and rage at their selfishness for daring to be on the same road as I am and choosing to honor the speed -limit- (as in upper limit).

In all readings I’ve read here over the years, I’d have to say I’m a bit shocked to hear someone so blatantly against the “take you time, be safe & if you’re RV’ing you’ve nowhere where you have to be and all day to get there.”

I guess you have your opinion about what I do & I have my opinion about what you said. I’ll do folks the favor (as an attempt to be considerate) and not post the return insult.
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Old 07-07-2022, 02:56 AM   #55
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I am blatantly against the excuses given that require ignoring how vehicles at 5 times the weight manage to not impede traffic.
How a few weeks training to someone who has maybe never driven a vehicle before trumps all the rv miles some have put on.
How a kid can drive the same size box truck as a c class at the speed limit.

If I can't keep up, I keep out.

I don't drive round track because I won't.
I don't drive rally because I can't.
I dont like the 80mph i15 speed limit, so I keep off of the i15 or I do the speed limit or as conditions allow.


I want to know when cautiousness becomes ridiculousness.
Is it 55 in a 70?
45 in a 70
35?
A dead stop to change lanes?

Give me a ridiculous scenario and then we can work upward to common sense.

20% or more of rv drivers are a hazard.
I think we all know this.
It's time we discourage them.

There aren't many mobile chicanes in professional circuit racing.
Why allow them on the amateurs course?
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Old 07-07-2022, 02:58 AM   #56
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Yeah, I kinda feel the same way. To be honest, if there was something in that $2-300 range that would bring up gas mileage—I’d seriously consider it. I do feel bad about the conundrum of using so much gas to take my family out and “enjoy the outdoors”. Mentally, I liken it to ecotourism. Yeah it puts carbon in the air and by many measures it’s either a luxury or a waste. But getting my children to understand the beauty of nature by experience seems to be much more meaningful than reading lectures at school or watch nature shows.

My choice to cruise at 62 in a 65 instead of punching it to 75 may not seem like it’s worth the inconvenience to others, but filling a tank back up after going 400 miles instead of 330 is about the best I can manage. And it makes it slightly less painful at $5 a gallon.
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Old 07-07-2022, 03:10 AM   #57
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[QUOTE=ducksface;353403
I want to know when cautiousness becomes ridiculousness.
Is it 55 in a 70?
45 in a 70
35?
A dead stop to change lanes?


20% or more of rv drivers are a hazard.
I think I we all know this.
It's time we discourage them.[/QUOTE]


All of those are unacceptable, I agree. What I was talking about is multiple lane highways where we drive smooth and go 62 in a 65. There are some highways by us that explicitly state 70mph speed limit for cars, trucks-65, rv’s and towed trailers 60. We still do 62-ish. There’s a governor on our rig that prevents us from going above 78. In the Chicago metro area—78 is keeping up with traffic. No thank you. Fine in a car, not fine in an RV.. to the point of the OP topic, if we keep the hammer down to stay at those speeds—it’s 4.8+!mpg. We get there 30 minutes faster, but poorer and I’m all stressed out. Not worth it in my opinion.
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Old 07-07-2022, 03:17 AM   #58
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CWray,
Your style is perfectly fair, perfectly reasonable. Balanced.
So many here are none of those.
Thank you.

By my staying off that damn i15 we went over sugarloaf mountain. We wouldn't have seen it in all the splendor if we hadn't decided we just weren't looking forward to 80mph.

All I ask is for folks to determine their ability and determine to stay in that realm...not the realm of those able.

Thank you.
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Old 07-07-2022, 03:29 AM   #59
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If the posted speed limit is 55, those short on patience will drive 10% faster.
If the posted speed limit is 65, those short on patience will drive 10% faster.
If the posted speed limit is 75, those short on patience will drive 10% faster... 82mph in an RV. Damn kids...
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Old 07-07-2022, 03:38 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad View Post
If the posted speed limit is 75, those short on patience will drive 10% faster... 82mph in an RV. Damn kids...
More like “damn diesel pusher….(wish I had one)”.
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