Tellaro-Sequence Power

[Johnschaefer@att.net]

The purpose of this post is to share my experience with the Thor “Reliable” power system now used as standard equipment on Sequence/Tellaro and, I assume, other van-based motorhomes. The system eliminates the propane/gas powered generator. Components of the system include:
- Two 100 amp-hour Lithium ion batteries
- 3000 Watt inverter-charger
- Combimaster Smart Remote control panel
- 180 Amp Alternator on the Promaster engine in addition to standard Alternator
- Balmar battery monitor
Observations
- The system is poorly documented by Thor
- Sales people are clueless regarding system features and use
- RV Dealer service departments have limited experience
- Even Thor’s on-line support offer incorrect troubleshooting advice
My experience:
- Batteries will power the a/c for about three hours before discharge
- Once discharged the inverter-charger shuts down completely
- The batteries will recharge off the engine, but 110V service require inverter reset
- The are two ways to reset the inverter, one is to plug into a 30 Amp power pedestal
- The other is to turn the switch on the inverter-charger “off” and back “on”
- On the 20L, the inverter is under the driver-side bed, requiring the removal of the mattress and the plywood panel underneath (12 or so, screws)
- Shame on Thor for not providing an access panel
This is our third motorhome and the first without a generator. I’m sure we’ll get used to the new power system in time. Now if I can just figure out how to get hot water out of the Truma Combi before sunset I’ll be happy.

[Bill Johnson]

Originally Posted by Johnschaefer@att.net

The purpose of this post is to share my experience with the Thor “Reliable” power system now used as standard equipment on Sequence/Tellaro and, I assume, other van-based motorhomes. The system eliminates the propane/gas powered generator. Components of the system include:
- Two 100 amp-hour Lithium ion batteries
- 3000 Watt inverter-charger
- Combimaster Smart Remote control panel
- 180 Amp Alternator on the Promaster engine in addition to standard Alternator
- Balmar battery monitor
Observations
- The system is poorly documented by Thor
- Sales people are clueless regarding system features and use
- RV Dealer service departments have limited experience
- Even Thor’s on-line support offer incorrect troubleshooting advice
My experience:
- Batteries will power the a/c for about three hours before discharge
- Once discharged the inverter-charger shuts down completely
- The batteries will recharge off the engine, but 110V service require inverter reset
- The are two ways to reset the inverter, one is to plug into a 30 Amp power pedestal
- The other is to turn the switch on the inverter-charger “off” and back “on”
- On the 20L, the inverter is under the driver-side bed, requiring the removal of the mattress and the plywood panel underneath (12 or so, screws)
- Shame on Thor for not providing an access panel
This is our third motorhome and the first without a generator. I’m sure we’ll get used to the new power system in time. Now if I can just figure out how to get hot water out of the Truma Combi before sunset I’ll be happy.

It sounds like you might need to buy a generator. and if you take an AC unit that takes 13+ amp lets just say 15 amps on 200 amps worth of batteries should run 13 hours if nothing else is being used, BUT a 3,000 watt inverter alone draws 25amps on its own from what I looked up so 15 amps plus 25 amps equals 40amps, 200 amp batteries should run 5 hours max

[Barry60]

So any problems with the Balmar monitor? Mine stopped working and even the RV shop can't figure out why it won't boot up.

[Johnschaefer@att.net]

That's been the bright spot in all of this--works flawlessly

[Gusti]

I have a Tellaro 2022 with the lithium package (200 amp). Can you tell HOW to run AC on the lithium battery? Thanks !

Gusti

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Gusti

I have a Tellaro 2022 with the lithium package (200 amp). Can you tell HOW to run AC on the lithium battery? Thanks !

Gusti

Turn on the inverter and get a good half hour of cooling, maybe more depending on what else is running. If you read the manual, you should be running the engine with the A/C running so that second alternator keeps your batteries from draining - that's your "generator".

[Gusti]

Thanks
But sorry for this simple question: how you turn on your inverter ?

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Gusti

Thanks
But sorry for this simple question: how you turn on your inverter ?

The better question is: How do you turn on the inverter in YOUR RV.

I don't have your model RV but I've heard there is a switch for the inverter on the left as you enter the side door. Maybe read your owners manual (it MAY have information applicable to your model RV) or see if Thor has an instruction video for your model on their YouTube channel.

[Gusti]

Hi,

I know how this switch works. When I turn on it gives me only 12V for lights and fridge. With this package (lithium), you must able to have microwave and A\C on.

[Bill Johnson]

Originally Posted by Gusti

Hi,

I know how this switch works. When I turn on it gives me only 12V for lights and fridge. With this package (lithium), you must able to have microwave and A\C on.

I'm thinking 16ACE27 is saying we don't know know the exact coach you have and many coaches have a switch by the door to turn on and off the 120 volt inverter not the disconnect switch for coach that turns off everything.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Gusti

Hi,

I know how this switch works. When I turn on it gives me only 12V for lights and fridge. With this package (lithium), you must able to have microwave and A\C on.

Right next to it.

27:00 on this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKXLV-CkFrA

[Gusti]

Hi,

I checked ALL the video. Nothing about this issues. Where I ask questions on this forum is because I didn’t find answers in all Thor stuff and video.

Thanks for sharing

[Bill Johnson]

Originally Posted by Gusti

Hi,

I checked ALL the video. Nothing about this issues. Where I ask questions on this forum is because I didn’t find answers in all Thor stuff and video.

Thanks for sharing

Then I would say go to your dealer and have him show you

[GlennC]

Johnscahfer you posted an EXCELLENT synopsis of the Tellaro Reliable Lithium 200 AH System. I am going to repost from another thread my recent experience with the 200 AH system for reference. Probably a good reason that Thor normally had 800 AH Lithium because 200 AH is not too much time when running certain components in your RV. Sometimes you do need to toggle through your inverter to reset to converting after stopped for a while and not plugged in. I was traveling to Hot Springs Arkansas last week in my new Tellaro 20L with the 200 AH Reliable Battery System. It was kind of a hot day so I left the AC (20 amps) running for my dog Charlie while we went to the Springs and out to dinner it might have been running the whole time about 3 hours. When we got back the system had shutdown after using about 60AH total. It indicated that the system was fully charged when I parked. I know I read somewhere that it will shutoff entirely if it drops below a certain percentage, I think 25% or 50% to preserve the Lithium packs. The 200 AH Reliable Lithium System is a smaller battery option (Opposed to Thors Normal 800 AH Lithium package). Most of the other equipment is the same. They had to start to include the option at no additional cost (instead of $25,000 upgrade) because of supply chain shortages on Onan Generators, so I can't complain. You do get some benefit off of the solar panel but not enough recharge more than small computer, lights, and refrigerator use. The big AMP eater is the AC and than probably the microwave when you are using it. It is nice to not have to run a noisy generator when you go into a Crackerbarrel for a meal with your pet in the car or to just pull over and grab a 1-2 hour nap on a long trip. If you drive the Balamar generator will recharge the entire system in like 15 minutes or you could idle the engine for 15 minutes if you were dry camping. Bottom line is about 3 hours off 200 Lithium AH if running the AC.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by GlennC

.....cut..... I was traveling to Hot Springs Arkansas last week in my new Tellaro 20L with the 200 AH Reliable Battery System. It was kind of a hot day so I left the AC (20 amps) running for my dog Charlie while we went to the Springs and out to dinner it might have been running the whole time about 3 hours. When we got back the system had shutdown after using about 60AH total. It indicated that the system was fully charged when I parked. .....cut....

I don’t know in what context the “(20 amps)” reference was made, but it doesn’t seem to fit the data in a meaningful way. Other than air conditioners having a 20-Amp breaker, it’s doubtful a van’s A/C pulls 20 Amps other than when starting. And those are 115 VAC Amps and not 12 VDC Amps. More importantly, if air conditioner had already shut down upon return, how does one know that it ran 3 hours instead of maybe 1 hour? Or 30 minutes?

Unless I’m reading the text incorrectly, the data and conclusions doesn’t support observations or numbers.

[GlennC]

Hi Chance,
We poked our head in the vehicle after we went to hot springs pools for about 2 hours and everything was running fine. At almost exactly 3 hours everything had shut down sometime between the 2 hours and 3 hours. I have seen other posts with the 200 AH Lithium systems and 3 hours appears to be max when running the AC or maybe 2 hours and 5 minutes) . Might have been drawing some other current for fridge and a charged device here or there as well, but 3 hours appeared to be the limit and it looked like it did use up around 60 AH off the lithium system. Smaller 12 volt stuff appears to still run though.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by GlennC

Hi Chance,
We poked our head in the vehicle after we went to hot springs pools for about 2 hours and everything was running fine. At almost exactly 3 hours everything had shut down sometime between the 2 hours and 3 hours. I have seen other posts with the 200 AH Lithium systems and 3 hours appears to be max when running the AC or maybe 2 hours and 5 minutes) . Might have been drawing some other current for fridge and a charged device here or there as well, but 3 hours appeared to be the limit and it looked like it did use up around 60 AH off the lithium system. Smaller 12 volt stuff appears to still run though.

Hi Glenn,
The easiest way to analyze this issue is to focus on “energy” consumption. For example, 60 Ah at 12.8 VDC represents about 770 Watt-hours. If air conditioner is 115 VAC, then we have to reduce this by inverter loses, which means around 700 Watt-hours of that will be useful at air conditioner.

An efficient van-size air conditioner will require around 1,000 Watts on a “normal” day, so would run less than one hour at full capacity.

Obviously, if van is parked in shade on a relatively cool day, the air conditioner may only need to run 1/3 of the time. That would make 2 hours in right range.

However, if parked at the beach or desert in the sun on a hot day, that same 700 Watt-hours of battery capacity won’t even last 45 minutes. When Thor rep said that the air conditioner will run 1 hour per 100 Ah of battery capacity, that’s in right range at 100% utilization. On a cool night, we could double or triple that; or even more if only the fan needs to run.

Energy usage (requirements) vary way too much for simple rules of thumb to hold true most of the time.

[GlennC]

Hi Chance,

You are absolutely correct that it depends on the variables. It is not an "issue" for me per se, rather understanding the limitations of the Reliable Lithium Lipo 200 AH system. We have a 15 year old dog Charlie and live in Oklahoma and Texas where it gets over 100 degrees all the time. We don't want to go into a resteraunt for an 2 hour lunch and cook the poor guy. There are always trade offs in RV's. We have had a pop up trailer, a 28 ft Coachmen trailer and a small Class A Thor Motor Home. All have plusses and minus as does the Thor Tellaro 20L B van. The 200 AH Lithium system has limitations over a gas/propane/diesel generator. Certainly you can run longer of a Onan or Cummings Generator if you are constantly running your ac. However, they are loud and eat up your fuels source. If though, you are running smaller electric consumers like fans, fridges, chargers, tv, etc... you could run the Lithium 200 AH for a much longer time enjoy the quiet and not burn fuel source. There is also a way to program the Reliable 200AH Lithium System to have the engine turn itself on a charge the system at idle with the Balamar Altenator/Generator on the engine. It is does somehow through the combimaster or the balimar gauge, not sure how. Obviously you need to make sure you are parked outside and not in a garage or closed space. It had some other safety precautions in regards to setting the brake and having to re-program after the vehicles is placed in park or reverse.

I think in general there is a lot of confusion on the Thor blogs that involve Lithium Batteries. I think a lot of people do not know how their systems actually work or how to turn them on or set them properly. I think a lot of people who complain about their systems not working simply don't understand the limitations of a 200 AH Lithium System. Like an RV you need to get out on the road and into to campgrounds, rv resorts or dry camp in figure out what is working or really not working. I have found that with most new RV's it is learning curve and somethings simply don't work on new RV's. Certainly the Reliable 200 AH Lithium System has some larning curve for me and I encourage anybody who has this system to post pointers, usage experience etc., for everyone to learn from

[Bill Johnson]

GlennC I found this about inverters. Inverter Efficiency

Sometimes bigger is not better. What we really need to know is what percentage of the power that goes into the inverter from the battery comes out the other side as AC power. To make this calculation even more difficult, the efficiency of an inverter changes with the output load placed on it. if a small load is put on an inverter it may be only around 50% efficient. However increase the load to near the inverters stated maximum continuous load and the efficiency will rise to around 90%.

A 3000 Watt inverter may draw around 20 Watts of power from the battery when it is connected and turned on without anything plugged into the output. This power is what the inverter needs to run itself… battery monitoring circuits, alarm circuits and maybe a small fan. Now if we plug-in a small AC load.. say 20 Watts…. the total load on the battery is now 40 Watts (20 for the inverter +20 for the load) so a bit of maths – 40 watts in – 20 Watts out shows an efficiency of 50%.

Now if we look at this again with a small 150 Watt inverter – connected to the battery with no load it takes about 5 Watts to run the inverter. Now if we plug in the same 20 Watt load we have 5 Watts for the inverter plus 20 watts for the load giving a total load on the battery of 25 Watts. So 25 Watts in and 20 Watts out gives us an efficiency of around 80%.

Practically this means that you coud run your 20 Watt appliance for much longer on the same battery by choosing to use the 150 Watt inverter rather than the 3000 inverter.

So size does matter…. but bigger is not always better. Matching your inverter size to your load size to maximize your run time of a battery is important.

[GlennC]

Thanks for the feedback. As you indicated in your earlier post you very clearly documented the Thor Tellaro's B Van Reliable Lithium 200 AH System which does have the 3000 watt inverter. I never thought to put the actual voltage the inverter is using just to stay on into the formula as well. In addition, I am not sure if the 12 volt equipment in the RV runs off the Lithium Battery Pacs without the inverter being on. I am going to go check. I used to have the Thor Aces little brother the Thor Axis and I understood how the 12 volt system worked with the "House Batteries" and the inverter ran the power when plugged into shore power (boat lingo I guess) at the campsite or off of your generator. In addition, I guess the Reliable System does get a nominal charge off the solar panel, maybe like 190 Watts? More of a trickle charge. Probably having both a lithium based system and a small Onan Generator would give RV owners the best of both worlds.