Thor Partners With Harbinger On Electrification

[Chance]

Thor appears serious about the future of electrification for motorhomes, in this case partnering with Harbinger on Class A chassis.

I’m not sure technology is quite ready yet for mass appeal, but there are some features about this chassis that are desirable regardless of powertrain. Other than a little higher price, what’s not to like about independent front suspension, de Dion rear suspension, single rear wheels, high load capacity, 28-inch step-in height, etc. A similar chassis with gas power could certainly ride and handle far better than typical F-53.

Claimed driving range seems overstated to me, but otherwise a good effort if price is competitive.


https://rvbusiness.com/thor-harbinge...ectrification/

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[RACarvalho]

And the scam goes on, and on....

140Kw battery...

@0.6Miles/Kw that is a 84miles range....
Even if they can pull out the trick to charge in one hour (very unlikelly), who wants to buy a MH that you need to stop every 80 miles and wait 1h for charging????
BTW, Cummins eTruck demonstrator is a port hauler truck (never goes above 30mhp) that has a 144Kw battery, it will not drive much more than 100 miles a day and takes ~10h to charge overnight....

[The Gritz Carlton]

In many parts of this country you could never get away from home...PCB is one of them. No charging stations close enough to reach them. But...you can power your home with it. HAHA.

[16ACE27]

Have you seen ANY charging station that could accommodate a Class A MH?

[Chance]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

And the scam goes on, and on....

140Kw battery...

@0.6Miles/Kw that is a 84miles range....

.....cut......

Maybe, but let’s try to keep technical aspects as accurate as possible.

It is not 140 Kw, the maximum battery is 140 kWh. Power is much higher than 140 kW.

Your estimate of 0.6 miles per kWh is likely way too low, but their estimate of 300 miles range is equally as unlikely on high side. The average electric vehicle today gets about 3+ miles per kWh, and I doubt a small Class A if done smartly will take 5 times the energy per mile.

Maybe you meant 0.6 kWh per mile (1.7 miles/kWh), but that seems too optimistic unless motorhome was driven at low speeds.

Based on E-Transit getting +/- 2 miles per kWh, and that gas motorhomes consume about twice the amount of fuel or less than a Transit van, I’d estimate about 1 mile or slightly higher per kWh is likely as long as Thor don’t go crazy on weight and aerodynamic drag.

Another way to look at it is that Axis-size motorhomes get 10 MPG, versus typical vehicle no more than 30 MPG. We can estimate fuel or energy consumption for Axis-size won’t be much more than 3 times higher. This supports at least 1 mile/kWh. Unfortunately, that’s not good enough in my opinion.

Regarding charging, 1-hour charge for 140 kWh battery pack on long trips is very doable for “partial” recharge which yields best time overall. With high voltage battery, cars like Tesla and Hyundai can charge 60% in much less than 1 hour. Still, at +/- 60% charge, motorhome would need charging every 100 miles or so, and I don’t see that as practical.

Design is not quite as bad as you describe, but needs more battery capacity for prime time in my opinion.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Have you seen ANY charging station that could accommodate a Class A MH?

Only pictures of stations arranged similar to gas stations. Like with gas motorhomes, you’d have to take two spots. I’ve also seen people with BEVs pulling trailers charge by partially blocking traffic, which I find unacceptable. A Class A under 30-feet could charge at end of many stations I have seen, though not ideal. It’s not like gas motorhomes don’t occasionally block refueling traffic already.

I don’t see charging as big a problem as low range unless Thor abandon motorhomes shaped like a box, or else double battery capacity.

I do like the suspension, low step-in height, SRW, etc. Just add small V8.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Chance

Maybe, but let’s try to keep technical aspects as accurate as possible.

Totally and 100% agree!!!
That is the reason I mentioned THE ONLY ONE case I know of where it makes sense using a etruck.

First:
Cummins 144Kw battery is gigantic and heavy because it doesn't use the same chemistry that Tesla uses, you need a different chemistry in a pouch configuration in order to deliver power in the amount needed in commercial applications and that also entails a heavy duty cooling system, etc.
Second:
Even if you could fulfill ALL the space between the chassis rails with batteries, you would then face the problem of payload....
Third:
0.6miles/kWh is what I calculate based on what many Tesla owners are reporting when towing campers.... That is the end result when you enter efficiency, heat, etc...
Fourth:
When moving to charging aspect, it just becomes ridiculous.
Imagine a station with only 10 chargers delivering 1.4gWh to 10 motorhomes....

There is a reason germans are chopping wood as we speak to prepare themselves for the coming winter.

Reality always hit hard when we ignore facts.

[Chance]

The chassis uses 4 modules of 35 kWh each. Total capacity is 140 kWh.

That is actually not that much considering many pickups like Ford Lightning with extended-range battery are almost as large, and some sedans are above 100 kWh.

Batteries are indeed heavy, but 140 kWh could be upgraded to at least 200 kWh by roughly adding 1,000 pounds, which is very doable in motorhome applications.

When buyers are paying $200,000 for a motorhome, what’s another 60 kWh? Just saying it only takes money since technology already exists.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Chance

The chassis uses 4 modules of 35 kWh each. Total capacity is 140 kWh.

That is actually not that much considering many pickups like Ford Lightning with extended-range battery are almost as large, and some sedans are above 100 kWh.
Batteries are indeed heavy, but 140 kWh could be upgraded to at least 200 kWh by roughly adding 1,000 pounds, which is very doable in motorhome applications.
When buyers are paying $200,000 for a motorhome, what’s another 60 kWh? Just saying it only takes money since technology already exists.

But back again on Why are we doing this?
If this is an experiment to explore and maybe teach kids in college something that is amazing but why show customers a proposal that is simply ridiculous.?
200kWh at 0.6kWh/mile means 120 miles range IF you are willing to deplete the thing all the way... More likely 60 miles range when you factor in range axiety .... and for what?
That battery will not be as "light" as Tesla one simple because it HAS to have a different chemistry to handle extremely high loads (think a MH going up IKE)...
and then it comes to the stupidity on charging....
I can imagine 500 MHs at Sunshine Key RV Resort all of them drawing 140kWh... Will bring Florida grid down even if they double the current grid capacity....
Now add all the electric MH charging on the road....

But maybe Americans that so dearly support the electrification scam will have to go through one winter w/o electricity 1/2 of days to figure out the scam...

[Judge]

Exactly! [emoji106]

[widdershins]

I think this type of posturing is primarily designed to extract cash from investors, EV is a buzzword that can open wallets....

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by widdershins

I think this type of posturing is primarily designed to extract cash from investors, EV is a buzzword that can open wallets....

Unfortunately not.
There are amazing technologies being developed in other areas you can do that with very good expectation it will go forward.

Electrification is a requirement if you don't want your company be flagged by big brother....

[powerboatr]

why are we not using hydrogen as fuel to either run a powercell or the ICE


zero emissions
boston is running many city busses on hydrogen and have been for years


personally if i could only go 120 miles and then have to sit for an hour or more, whats the point of the trip. this range is base don 65 mph??? i doubt it as wind penalty on a class A is steep . who wants to drive 45??

now a 5 hr trips becomes 8 or more . talk about going backwards in time vs distance



cummins is building hydrogen powered OTR truck in Europe as we speak to meet the challenge of distance vs time to get goods across the land
if people want to be all electric and somehow that gives them a warm fuzzy because they think they are not using fossil fuels, then they are uneducated.



there is no free lunch
electricity has to come from somewhere.
wind, solar, nuke, coal, nat gas, hyd??
hydro or geo thermal?
why not all the above and lets be prosperous

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Chance

Only pictures of stations arranged similar to gas stations. Like with gas motorhomes, you’d have to take two spots. I’ve also seen people with BEVs pulling trailers charge by partially blocking traffic, which I find unacceptable. A Class A under 30-feet could charge at end of many stations I have seen, though not ideal. It’s not like gas motorhomes don’t occasionally block refueling traffic already.

I don’t see charging as big a problem as low range unless Thor abandon motorhomes shaped like a box, or else double battery capacity.

I do like the suspension, low step-in height, SRW, etc. Just add small V8.

Pictures? Or artists renderings? I've only seen the back-in style charging stations.

Does my MH take up more than one pump when filling? It can, depending on the station; but only for 10 minutes, not hours.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by powerboatr

why are we not using hydrogen as fuel to either run a powercell or the ICE

Early 20th century all these types of fuel where tested and gasoline / diesel prevail in most applications.
Certainly the tech was more primitive then but the requirement was way lower also !!!...
I think a Ford Model T had a 20hp engine....
So when you needed 20hp electric was not able to make it, now a decent car needs to have at least 200hp....
Even if you are able to come up with a battery that cost 10% of what tesla produce today and charge in 5 minutes, you still have the problem of where all this energy will come from.

Hydrogen:
Hydrogen, in its core, invalidate the argument why we are doing this.
The least expensive way to generate H2 is to reform natural gas, which in the process generates 2 CO2 molecules for each H2 it produces... So you are producing more "green house gases" than fuel and if your argument is that you are going to all this pain to reduce CO2, the argument is invalidated.
Plus H2 is a very small molecule, a pain to contain, extremely explosive...
Contrary to Hollywood, if you shoot a gasoline or diesel tank, it will not explode, that is not the same with H2....
You need a lot of pressure and safety in the containment system which leads to a huge amount of space and and a lot of weight....
Fossil fuels are not only excellent and cost effective source of energy but they also recycle into the atmosphere what used to be there when everything in nature was bigger and better: CO2

[paulwadley]

I would also mention that if you are using electricity to run your appliances while driving(furnace/air conditioning, refrigerator), your mileage may go down as to how far you can drive your coach before having to recharge it. You also need to look at the other unknown factors as traffic jams/accidents delaying your progress on the highways.


Paul

[Chance]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

But back again on Why are we doing this?
.....cut.....

Simple answer — they can’t afford not to. It’s too high a risk to ignore.

Just in case you are wrong, Thor, Winnebago and Coachmen can’t afford to get caught with their pants down, so they are investing a very small percentage on Electrification R&D. Besides, they are not doing the heavy lifting anyway.

Right now, Tesla (100% electric) is the most profitable auto company, and others like Ford, GM, and Toyota are investing billions upon billions to compete with Tesla or risk future extinction. What RV manufacturers are doing is insignificant by comparison.

[Dan-sr@perra-us.net]

So, do you suppose campgrounds will charge extra to plug into a 50 amp for all electric RV's?

[lwmcguir]

When you see a fleet of EV Dozers, EV excavators, and EV Haul trucks mining EV battery minerals, then you can believe there's new battery technology that makes sense

Until then, keep paying your taxes to support the fantasy

[Dan-sr@perra-us.net]

The thing that bothers me is that no one is talking about what happens with the old, discarded EV batteries. That to me is the next big environmental crisis. Just think about what happens when one of these begins to burn. If it these batteries are stockpiled without sufficient safeguards a fire could be near impossible to put out. We are already seeing trash dump fires from discarded cell phone batteries, just think of how much more spectacular a high output EV battery will produce. Added to that is the problem that water is an ineffective as a way to put a battery fire out and we are left with just letting it burn, which is what fire departments currently do with EV fires. IN my view any battery technology research must also include research on how to recycle used up batteries.