Thor Introducing DP with Volta Battery Power

[Chance]

Thor joining generator-less design by introducing a diesel pusher with Volta lithium-battery electrical system at RVX this week.

https://www.rvbusiness.com/blog/tmc-...ny-at-rvx.html



As discussed in this previous thread, it was inevitable that with lower cost for lithium batteries, that generator use would be limited, initially by those with deeper pockets that don’t have to justify the expense other than it being a luxury they just want.

I expect the Thor DP will have a diesel generator anyway. We’ll have to see.

http://www.thorforums.com/forums/f10...me-1750-5.html

[JamieGeek]

You might catch a glimpse of it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWkCIwyX0lo

[Long & Winding road]

I think thats awesome.... It says "Enjoy longer run times when off grid". Surley thats comparing same RV with a generator and a full tank of fuel (or at least 75% full). So it would have to last a week or more.


“The RVX reveal category gave us the opportunity to showcase how we are relying less on fossil fuels and focusing more on eco-friendly solutions like lithium ion and solar energy,” said Jon Krider, vice president of product development and marketing, in a press release. “Which led us to partner with Volta Power Systems.”

The RVX Tuscany houses a generator-free power system that uses lithium-ion energy and includes a high-voltage alternator, an AC/DC inverter, and DC converter. This system allows consumers to receive more power in less space and weight, and enjoy longer runtimes when they’re off the grid. Besides less pollution from a typical generator, this coach is quieter, which creates a better owner experience."

[Chance]

Yeah, I see it as good news, and a step towards improved camping and touring.

I’m interested in seeing specifications; not that I’m interested in large RVs, but expect same technology to filter down to smaller Class As and Cs also. Van-based Class Bs were first because they are pricier to start with, and the lower energy requirements made the Volta system less expensive than for large rigs.

I hope (expect) that the solar part of the system is also at 48-Volt nominal like the Volta batteries, alternator, and inverters. With enough roof area it should be possible to collect 1,000 Watts or more, making it easy to recharge batteries without alternators or generators indefinitely as long as air conditioning isn’t needed.

Most of the larger motorhomes with Volta systems have enough battery capacity to run at least one A/C overnight without having to run the engine or a separate generator.

[Bob Denman]

This is VERY interesting; Thanks for posting it!

[The Gritz Carlton]

If you were boondocking (race track, desert sands, BLM, etc.) for 3 or 4 days, how would you recharge that system after using the A/C for one overnight? Would a portable 2000 or 3100 be enough to charge everything back up over the next day? A great option would be a small 3 or 4K diesel generator for backup in this scenario. If it's hot enough you need A/C for overnight, you will sure need it the next day...all day as well. Either way, for a serious "off grid" RVer, you will still need a generator. Right?

[Long & Winding road]

I found the size of the battery they offer right now.... Have not seen the price yet but looked like you just add more packs if you need more juice.

"Boasting the highest energy density in the industry, the Volta energy storage pack has over twice the effective storage as it’s closest lithium ion competitors. Available in 3.3 kWh increments, the pack is modular and scalable for any application."

[Long & Winding road]

More info......

"Our line of lightweight 58V alternators are 4x times more powerful (and significantly lighter) than traditional 12V solutions in the same size. Installed in combination with our fast-charge storage packs, they can charge most of our systems in under 2 hours or less. We have alternators that will fit about any solution big or small. It is air-cooled and comes in an optional J-180 mount or a pad mount ready to fit any standard engine".

[Long & Winding road]

Start (and run) two AC with their inverter - WOW.

"Custom-designed in partnership with Sensata, our high-efficiency 3.6 kW Inverter produces a pure sine, low frequency 120V AC output with 30 amps shore power equivalent. Capable of motor starts up to 1.5 HP, it can fire up two RV-style air conditioners at once. Did we also mention it’s lighting-fast charging capability? "

[Long & Winding road]

https://voltapowersystems.com/energy-storage/

[Chance]

Most likely a generator will be required for those who will stay off the grid for long periods if planning to camp in warm weather and use A/C all day. I doubt solar power alone will keep up with A/C. And running a big diesel seems to me not all that practical even if for an hour or two at a time to recharge battery bank.

The luxury motorhomes I’ve seen advertised with Volta system sometimes kept the diesel generator as a back-up or alternate power source.

My guess is that the market for these types of DPs are for buyers who mainly stay in campgrounds with shore power, and occasionally want to boondock at night, or run A/C during day while they nap, or to leave pets inside on hot day, etc...

A portable generator should work as long as inverter/charger doesn’t overload it trying to recharge large battery bank too quickly. Fortunately, many chargers can be programmed to limit current.

[bry899]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

If you were boondocking (race track, desert sands, BLM, etc.) for 3 or 4 days, how would you recharge that system after using the A/C for one overnight? Would a portable 2000 or 3100 be enough to charge everything back up over the next day? A great option would be a small 3 or 4K diesel generator for backup in this scenario. If it's hot enough you need A/C for overnight, you will sure need it the next day...all day as well. Either way, for a serious "off grid" RVer, you will still need a generator. Right?

The RVX Tuscany houses a generator-free power system that uses lithium-ion energy and includes a high-voltage alternator,

You missed this part Generator Free power, and High Voltage Alternator, In other words it recharges off coach engine.

You can't hand crank a 58V alternator for 2 hours
http://www.thorforums.com/forums/ima...k/facepalm.gif

[The Gritz Carlton]

Originally Posted by Chance

Most likely a generator will be required for those who will stay off the grid for long periods if planning to camp in warm weather and use A/C all day. I doubt solar power alone will keep up with A/C. And running a big diesel seems to me not all that practical even if for an hour or two at a time to recharge battery bank.

The luxury motorhomes I’ve seen advertised with Volta system sometimes kept the diesel generator as a back-up or alternate power source.

My guess is that the market for these types of DPs are for buyers who mainly stay in campgrounds with shore power, and occasionally want to boondock at night, or run A/C during day while they nap, or to leave pets inside on hot day, etc...

A portable generator should work as long as inverter/charger doesn’t overload it trying to recharge large battery bank too quickly. Fortunately, many chargers can be programmed to limit current.

Either way...this opens up a whole new ocean of power management. Regardless of what the inexperienced ( me) says...Thor knows what they are doing and has the pockets to stay on the front line of innovation. You could overnight anywhere silently.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Long & Winding road

Start (and run) two AC with their inverter - WOW.

"Custom-designed in partnership with Sensata, our high-efficiency 3.6 kW Inverter produces a pure sine, low frequency 120V AC output with 30 amps shore power equivalent. Capable of motor starts up to 1.5 HP, it can fire up two RV-style air conditioners at once. Did we also mention it’s lighting-fast charging capability? "

I’ve seen drawings showing multiple inverter’s on one motorhome. A 3.6 kW inverter isn’t that large for a luxury motorhome. But since inverter’s are now relatively cheap, you can have two on one rig so you can run both A/Cs and still have power for microwave, coffee maker, hair dryer, etc. at same time.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by bry899

The RVX Tuscany houses a generator-free power system that uses lithium-ion energy and includes a high-voltage alternator,

You missed this part Generator Free power, and High Voltage Alternator, In other words it recharges off coach engine.

You can't hand crank a 58V alternator for 2 hours
http://www.thorforums.com/forums/ima...k/facepalm.gif

In my opinion, in marketing speak that can also read that the system can operate without a generator, not necessarily that the motorhome doesn’t have a generator. They may just be trying to emphasize that generator isn’t required to have electricity. It’s hard to say until we see actual specs.

[Bob Denman]

You could surely run a much smaller generator; that has enough power to recharge the battery banks...

[Chance]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

Either way...this opens up a whole new ocean of power management. Regardless of what the inexperienced ( me) says...Thor knows what they are doing and has the pockets to stay on the front line of innovation. You could overnight anywhere silently.

Other companies started using Volta a while back. I think Thor is late to game, and hardly innovative. But I do credit them for embracing the obvious need, which I hope filters down to smaller motorhomes.

Overnighting silently without a generator while running A/C is indeed a great option to have.

For smaller rigs, a single 3.6 or 4.0 kW inverter/charger is not that expensive anymore in order to produce 30 Amps. And now OEMs like Ford are starting to offer a second alternator from factory that can recharge battery bank while driving, so the main cost remains the battery bank. And it would only take 10~12 kWh to power an A/C overnight in a National Park, or in a rest area or Walmart parking lot. I’m glad to see all the pieces coming together to make an affordable system (not that Volta isn’t still expensive).

[JamieGeek]

I had a couple of thoughts:

• With the extra alternator power available they could easily not put a generator on this and just tell people (even have the AGS) to start the "big" engine to recharge
• Not sure Thor is introducing this model or just showcasing a prototype (which may or may not make it to production--the video teaser does say prototypes).

Just my $02.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

You could surely run a much smaller generator; that has enough power to recharge the battery banks...

A major benefit of these systems is the ability to charge battery bank much quicker than the rate power is used later. If you can charge in 1 hour at 10 times the rate, then you can have silence (no generator) the other 9 hours. For that reason I think small generators may not be best solution.

Keep in mind large lithium battery banks can accept a lot of power — much more than small portable generators can make.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

I had a couple of thoughts:

• With the extra alternator power available they could easily not put a generator on this and just tell people (even have the AGS) to start the "big" engine to recharge
• Not sure Thor is introducing this model or just showcasing a prototype (which may or may not make it to production--the video teaser does say prototypes).

Just my $02.

Yeah, other systems that eliminated the generator, like EcoTrek, did the same as Volta in that they start the van engine when battery is low. My previous comment was based on starting a V6 or V8 gas engine automatically for 1/2 an hour seems more practical than a huge and load Cummins or Cat diesel. My bias though.