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05-24-2021, 09:03 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Quantum JM31
State: Tennessee
Posts: 697
THOR #21926
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Xantrex Freedom X2000 in Quantum JM31
We just took delivery of a 2022 Quantum JM31 and trying to decide if we have a problem with the inverter. When connected to shore power the top green indicator for "shore power present" is illuminated. If we disconnect shore power the green "battery indicator" illuminates indicating the power source is batteries but we don't seem to be getting alternating current output from the inverter. The microwave clock does not turn on and plugging a hair dryer in various outlets indicated no power. I believe this inverter has an internal transfer switch that passes power thru the inverter while shore power is present but switches to the inverter when the generator is off and no shore power is present. I don't know if that transfer switch is working or not but the main transfer switch under the bed does switch between the shore and the generator. I am not new to this and owned a Class A with an inverter for over 13 years. We never turned the inverter off and the microwave clock never lost time. Of course I had the load sensing turned off in the inverter. Not sure if that is a problem with this Xantrex or not. Thought maybe I am overlooking something and those experienced with this setup could steer me in the wright direction. We had a Magnum Inverter in the other coach.
Would be nice to have electrical schematics for the AC and DC wiring on the coach. I am a retired electrical engineer and like to have schematics handy for troubleshooting.
Bob
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05-24-2021, 09:38 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2020 Magnitude SV34
State: Florida
Posts: 4,148
THOR #12751
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Search is your friend..... there are numerous posts on this topic.... especially more recently with all the newbies flooding RV'ing.
First, you can get all the documentation for your coach, including electrical, plumbing and architect schematics by registering on the Thor Owners Site here..... https://www.thormotorcoach.com/owners/
Second, you did not purchase a high-end coach (Class A's and Super C's) with a huge battery bank and high-end inverter (like the Magnum in your other coach) that can power the entire coaoch. You purchased a Class C that has limited capabilities compared to the higher-end coaches. It has a decent Inverter with limited battery capacity.
The Inverter is only meant to power a limited number of outlets that typically include:
- Residential Fridge
- TV's (not necessarily all TV's)
- An outlet in the bedroom for a CPAP machine, etc.
When I had an Outlaw 29H Class C, the Inverter only powered the three TV's in the coach (it had an absorpotion fridge so it could run on propane and did not need to be on an Inverter).
The Xantrex Freedom X 2000 will not power a microwave / convection oven or large A/C unit (without a SoftStart installed). It is also not wired into any of the GFCI outlets. It does have a transfer switch but it gets its power through the WFCO Power Distribution Panel with its own breaker (incoming power does not go through the Inverter first in these coaches). There is a separate automatic transfer switch that handles switching between shore power and generator power for the entire coach. If you lose power to the coach and the Inverter is on, then it will switch over to battery power to keep a residential fridge running.
The schematics for your particular coach will tell you which outlets are wired to be powered by the Inverter when on battery power.
Also, depending on how long you intend to be on battery power you may need to upgrade your house batteries or add more. If you don't have solar installed, you might want to consider that as well if you spend a lot of time off the grid.
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05-24-2021, 12:26 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Quantum JM31
State: Tennessee
Posts: 697
THOR #21926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
Search is your friend..... there are numerous posts on this topic.... especially more recently with all the newbies flooding RV'ing.
First, you can get all the documentation for your coach, including electrical, plumbing and architect schematics by registering on the Thor Owners Site here..... https://www.thormotorcoach.com/owners/
Have been logged into that site for over a week now. There are no schematics shown only block diagrams in the generic manual. Most everything there is manuals or how to videos. A lot of the stuff does not even apply to our coach.
Second, you did not purchase a high-end coach (Class A's and Super C's) with a huge battery bank and high-end inverter (like the Magnum in your other coach) that can power the entire coaoch. You purchased a Class C that has limited capabilities compared to the higher-end coaches. It has a decent Inverter with limited battery capacity.
The inverter in our old coach was Magnum 2000 watt MSW inverter and the one in the new Quantum is a 2000 watt PSW. A better inverter because it is a pure sine wave inverter.
The Inverter is only meant to power a limited number of outlets that typically include:
- Residential Fridge The frig in the Quantum is a 12 VDC model that does not use AC or propane
- TV's (not necessarily all TV's)
- An outlet in the bedroom for a CPAP machine, etc.
When I had an Outlaw 29H Class C, the Inverter only powered the three TV's in the coach (it had an absorpotion fridge so it could run on propane and did not need to be on an Inverter).
The Xantrex Freedom X 2000 will not power a microwave / convection oven or large A/C unit (without a SoftStart installed). It is also not wired into any of the GFCI outlets. It does have a transfer switch but it gets its power through the WFCO Power Distribution Panel with its own breaker (incoming power does not go through the Inverter first in these coaches). There is a separate automatic transfer switch that handles switching between shore power and generator power for the entire coach. If you lose power to the coach and the Inverter is on, then it will switch over to battery power to keep a residential fridge running.
A 2000 watt Xantrex PSW inverter will certainly power a 1200 watt microwave
The schematics for your particular coach will tell you which outlets are wired to be powered by the Inverter when on battery power.
Only a single block that says inverter is connected to specific outlets but not which ones.
Also, depending on how long you intend to be on battery power you may need to upgrade your house batteries or add more. If you don't have solar installed, you might want to consider that as well if you spend a lot of time off the grid.
Our coach has two Group 27 AGM batteries and room for two more. We will add two more when we get home with the coach. We ordered the solar option but it is only a single 100 watt panel. I will add one more panel which I think is the limit of the charger. We also ordered the unit with two 11,000 BTU air conditioners and the Energy Management System. They are working quite nicely here in the hot Florida sun.
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Response in red text in above quote.
Bob
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05-24-2021, 01:15 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Quantum JM31
State: Tennessee
Posts: 697
THOR #21926
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Just turned off the 30 amp at the pedestal with the main television on and it is not powered from the inverter. As a matter of fact when you look at the Xantrex display it shows the inverter active from batteries but zero % load. I am starting to think there is a problem in the wiring or a breaker open. Why would Thor go to the trouble of installing a pure sine wave 2000 watt inverter in a coach and not connect it to anything at all. The frig is 12 VDC only so does not need the inverter. The only thing left is the duplex outlets and I have not yet found one that is powered from the inverter. The outlet on the forward side of the bed is not powered from the inverter because I had the MiFi plugged in there and the internet goes down each time the AC power is turned off. I have the lithium battery out of the MiFi so it has to be restarted each time. I moved the MiFi this morning up front where the Wally is and it still lost power when the pedestal was turned off. Guess I am carrying the inverter for good looks.
Bob
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05-24-2021, 01:23 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2020 Magnitude SV34
State: Florida
Posts: 4,148
THOR #12751
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If you e-mail Thor Customer Service, they can send you the schematics if the coach is too new that they have not populate the site for your VIN yet.
The Xantrex 2000 is a pure sine wave and could power your 1200W mircowave.... although a 1200W microwave can have an intial surge of 2500W or more. Most experts will recommend a 2500W Inverter for a 1200W microwave. If you ran your microwave to make some popcorn, the Inverter would likely kick out a low voltage alarm with the stock batteries. That is probably why they don't wire that outlet to the Inverter ciruit.
I have a Microwave / Convection Oven in my Magnitude and it is 1500W. It is not wired to the Inverter circuit because it would not take long to kill the stock house batteries. Thor put two 6V golf cart batteries in my coach and I added two more. I still don't have a real big desire to run the Microwave / Convection off them because it is a failry big power drain.... even with solar. But if I wanted to really run my microwave, I would be replacing the 2000W with a 3000W Inverter.
Given you don't have a residential fridge, the Inverter cicuit is likely only powering the TV's and probably one outlet next to the bed.
I installed two Renogy 160W flexible solar panels with the stock 10A Go Power Solar Controller and it works just fine keeping my four 6V batteries charged. You can install another 100W (or even a 200W and probably be just fine).
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05-24-2021, 01:28 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2020 Magnitude SV34
State: Florida
Posts: 4,148
THOR #12751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Nodine
Just turned off the 30 amp at the pedestal with the main television on and it is not powered from the inverter. As a matter of fact when you look at the Xantrex display it shows the inverter active from batteries but zero % load. I am starting to think there is a problem in the wiring or a breaker open. Why would Thor go to the trouble of installing a pure sine wave 2000 watt inverter in a coach and not connect it to anything at all. The frig is 12 VDC only so does not need the inverter. The only thing left is the duplex outlets and I have not yet found one that is powered from the inverter. The outlet on the forward side of the bed is not powered from the inverter because I had the MiFi plugged in there and the internet goes down each time the AC power is turned off. I have the lithium battery out of the MiFi so it has to be restarted each time. I moved the MiFi this morning up front where the Wally is and it still lost power when the pedestal was turned off. Guess I am carrying the inverter for good looks.
Bob
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There are several settings on the Inverter and one of them is a sleep setting if there is no demand on the Inverter over X period of time (it is confugurable). You may want to check how the Inverter was setup.
You also can check something else on your Inverter first. There is a control panel installed on the Inverter and then a remote panel in the coach. If the power button is "On" on the Inverter mounted panel, the remote panel is over-riden. The control panel on the Inverter needs to have the power button in the Off position for the remote panel to take control.
If you have an outdoor TV, I can almost guarantee it is wired to the Inverter. If you have an outlet next to the bed, I would also bet it is wired to the Inverter so you could test with that outlet with something pluggd into it.
Here is a simple test using the outdoor TV:
- Make sure the control panel mounted on the Inverter is set to Off.
- Make sure the Inverter remote control panel is set to On.
- Connect shore power.
- Turn on your outdoor TV
- Kill the shore power.
- See if your outdoor TV still has power.
As an FYI......
If I am running my residential fridge or my outdoor kitchen fridge and I kill the shore power, my Xantrex remote panel will change from the green LED being on the AC power icon to the green LED being on for the battery power icon.
If there is no demand on the Inverter after a period of time, the display willl read 0W and the green LED will also go out next to the battery power icon. If my fridge is cooled down and not demanding any power, my display will read 0W (assuming nothing is running on the Inverter circuit).
Finally, check your WFCO Power Distribution Panel and look for a breaker either marked "Inverter" or "TV Receptacles." This breaker controls the AC power going into the Xanrex Inverter. If you have the outdoor TV on and then switch off this breaker while on shore power, the Inverter's transfer switch will change over to battery power to keep the TV powered.
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05-24-2021, 01:44 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2020 Magnitude SV34
State: Florida
Posts: 4,148
THOR #12751
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What is interesting is......
I looked the 2022 Brochure for the Quantum in the E-Series and there is no mention of an Inverter..... even under the Options section. I also see no mention of it on Thor's website. Same with the Sprinter version of the Quantum.
They actually call out a "12V Outlet for CPAP Machine" in the bedroom.
Maybe someone on the line installed it during assembly by mistake and it is not hooked up to anything since there is no mention of it for the 2022's.
The 2021 Brochure does call out an 1800W Inverter for the JM31, LF31 & WS31 models but there is nothing in the 2022 brochure. It is possible Thor just made a mistake not listing it in the 2022 brochure or on the website. But I can guarantee you Thor never designed their Class C's to have the Inverter power all of the outlets. The standard are the TV's / Entertainment, Residential Fridge and maybe one other outlet.
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05-24-2021, 02:07 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 25.6
State: New Mexico
Posts: 5,114
THOR #20220
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Our coach batteries with a 1500 w microwave & 3000w inverter drop from 12.7 to 11.8 or 11.7.
We have group 24 and are looking into group 31.
Like the other person said upgrade battery and you could have a tech wire the other outlets to the inverter..we wired every outlet to the inverter
__________________
LAS CRUCES 2020 Thor Vegas 25.6
Lora & George. Golden Retriever & Multi-Gen Australian labradoodle & new ALD in March. Happy Campers!! E Biking, Hiking, Tennis, Scuba,Fishing,Cross Country Skiing, Snowshoeing. Retired H.S. Principal, Sr. IT Engineer, Life & Health Insurance Agent
"Today is a Gift and Why it is called the Present"
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05-24-2021, 04:22 PM
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#9
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Site Team
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 14,320
THOR #7035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Nodine
We just took delivery of a 2022 Quantum JM31 and trying to decide if we have a problem with the inverter. When connected to shore power the top green indicator for "shore power present" is illuminated. If we disconnect shore power the green "battery indicator" illuminates indicating the power source is batteries but we don't seem to be getting alternating current output from the inverter. The microwave clock does not turn on and plugging a hair dryer in various outlets indicated no power. I believe this inverter has an internal transfer switch that passes power thru the inverter while shore power is present but switches to the inverter when the generator is off and no shore power is present. I don't know if that transfer switch is working or not but the main transfer switch under the bed does switch between the shore and the generator. I am not new to this and owned a Class A with an inverter for over 13 years. We never turned the inverter off and the microwave clock never lost time. Of course I had the load sensing turned off in the inverter. Not sure if that is a problem with this Xantrex or not. Thought maybe I am overlooking something and those experienced with this setup could steer me in the wright direction. We had a Magnum Inverter in the other coach.
Would be nice to have electrical schematics for the AC and DC wiring on the coach. I am a retired electrical engineer and like to have schematics handy for troubleshooting.
Bob
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You will not see "schematics" from Thor. They have electrical diagrams which are used for installation and are a cross between a wiring diagram and a block diagram but no schematics like you are used to seeing.
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad - Selling
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Toad
2024 Chevrolet Trax 2RS - Soon 2B TOAD
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05-24-2021, 04:32 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2020 Magnitude SV34
State: Florida
Posts: 4,148
THOR #12751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16ACE27
You will not see "schematics" from Thor. They have electrical diagrams which are used for installation and are a cross between a wiring diagram and a block diagram but no schematics like you are used to seeing.
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The document for my coach is labeled "Schematics" and while the electrical sub-section does not look like a typical electrical engineering document, the AC section does list each circuit based on the WFCO Power Distribution Panel breakers and position of each outlet within the coach for each circuit, etc. I can easily determine which outlets are wired to the Inverter circuit.
That's usually good enough for troubleshooting. Since there is no standard operating procedure for running the wiring, each electrician can run it anywhere within the coach and you have to trace it for yourself.
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05-25-2021, 08:49 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Quantum JM31
State: Tennessee
Posts: 697
THOR #21926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
What is interesting is......
I looked the 2022 Brochure for the Quantum in the E-Series and there is no mention of an Inverter..... even under the Options section. I also see no mention of it on Thor's website. Same with the Sprinter version of the Quantum.
They actually call out a "12V Outlet for CPAP Machine" in the bedroom.
Maybe someone on the line installed it during assembly by mistake and it is not hooked up to anything since there is no mention of it for the 2022's.
The 2021 Brochure does call out an 1800W Inverter for the JM31, LF31 & WS31 models but there is nothing in the 2022 brochure. It is possible Thor just made a mistake not listing it in the 2022 brochure or on the website. But I can guarantee you Thor never designed their Class C's to have the Inverter power all of the outlets. The standard are the TV's / Entertainment, Residential Fridge and maybe one other outlet.
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Judge,
Thanks for all the helpful information and I will try those things when we get home. We are on the way now and will be leaving 1000 Trails Orlando this morning to head back home. I have an air conditioned garage to work in and will wait until there to check the inverter again. Yesterday was a bit hot to be turning off the shore power and it is going to get hotter in the up coming days. I did not know that the remote panel only had control if the local panel was off. That could very well be an issue. I do know the inverter has a panel and it is upside down because the inverter is mounted to the ceiling of one of the compartments.
Yes, I am well aware that not only the brochure but the 2022 Thor website information does not show the inverter. I was very concerned about that and had contacted the factory. They did not respond but putting the VIN number in the owners resource website allowed me to download the serial data sheet and it showed a Xantrex 2000 watt inverter. The 2021 Quantum JM31 was specified with a 1800 watt inverter. When we picked up the coach last Thursday I looked and verified that the Xantrex 2000 watt inverter was installed. I am sure you are aware of the shortage of electronic components for vehicles due to integrated circuit shortages. It could be that the 1800 watt inverter is no longer available or because of the shortage and the fact that a DC frig is installed, Thor may want to have the option of not installing the inverter. If they have it listed then customers are going to expect it.
Bob
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05-25-2021, 08:51 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Quantum JM31
State: Tennessee
Posts: 697
THOR #21926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scubawise
Our coach batteries with a 1500 w microwave & 3000w inverter drop from 12.7 to 11.8 or 11.7.
We have group 24 and are looking into group 31.
Like the other person said upgrade battery and you could have a tech wire the other outlets to the inverter..we wired every outlet to the inverter
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You should be looking at AGM batteries because they have a lower internal resistance and will have less voltage drop when the inverter pulls a large current.
Bob
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05-25-2021, 10:42 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2020 Magnitude SV34
State: Florida
Posts: 4,148
THOR #12751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Nodine
Judge,
Thanks for all the helpful information and I will try those things when we get home. We are on the way now and will be leaving 1000 Trails Orlando this morning to head back home. I have an air conditioned garage to work in and will wait until there to check the inverter again. Yesterday was a bit hot to be turning off the shore power and it is going to get hotter in the up coming days. I did not know that the remote panel only had control if the local panel was off. That could very well be an issue. I do know the inverter has a panel and it is upside down because the inverter is mounted to the ceiling of one of the compartments.
Yes, I am well aware that not only the brochure but the 2022 Thor website information does not show the inverter. I was very concerned about that and had contacted the factory. They did not respond but putting the VIN number in the owners resource website allowed me to download the serial data sheet and it showed a Xantrex 2000 watt inverter. The 2021 Quantum JM31 was specified with a 1800 watt inverter. When we picked up the coach last Thursday I looked and verified that the Xantrex 2000 watt inverter was installed. I am sure you are aware of the shortage of electronic components for vehicles due to integrated circuit shortages. It could be that the 1800 watt inverter is no longer available or because of the shortage and the fact that a DC frig is installed, Thor may want to have the option of not installing the inverter. If they have it listed then customers are going to expect it.
Bob
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I have the Freedom X 2000 in my Magnitude. My schematics show the Inverter circuit is labeled as 5B and the outlets are located at the following locations:
- Residential Fridge
- Outdoor Kitchen Fridge
- Outdoor TV
- Cab-Over TV
- Cabinet Above Dinette (DVD Player)
- Bedroom Wall
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05-26-2021, 04:04 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Damon Daybreak
State: New Mexico
Posts: 359
THOR #19133
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I have a Xantrex Freedom 2000, and it certainly powers my microwave/convection oven. I also have 3 200 A Lithium batteries to run it and they laugh at the load from the microwave.
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05-26-2021, 01:12 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 25.6
State: New Mexico
Posts: 5,114
THOR #20220
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Great to know HarryS
__________________
LAS CRUCES 2020 Thor Vegas 25.6
Lora & George. Golden Retriever & Multi-Gen Australian labradoodle & new ALD in March. Happy Campers!! E Biking, Hiking, Tennis, Scuba,Fishing,Cross Country Skiing, Snowshoeing. Retired H.S. Principal, Sr. IT Engineer, Life & Health Insurance Agent
"Today is a Gift and Why it is called the Present"
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05-26-2021, 02:01 PM
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#16
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Site Team
Brand: Entegra
Model: Accolade 37TS
State: South Dakota
Posts: 8,767
THOR #1469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryS
I have a Xantrex Freedom 2000, and it certainly powers my microwave/convection oven. I also have 3 200 A Lithium batteries to run it and they laugh at the load from the microwave.
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And since this is in a Damon Daybreak you must have installed this setup yourself and it may not apply to the setup in the OP's rig.
__________________
Dave
US Army (Ret)
2020 Entegra Accolade 37TS
2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk (Toad)
FMCA - F432054
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05-26-2021, 03:11 PM
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#17
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Site Team
Brand: Entegra
Model: Accolade 37TS
State: South Dakota
Posts: 8,767
THOR #1469
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Just went out to the coach. Entegra/Jayco wired my rig so the Convection Microwave is on the inverter circuit but there are no outlets near the bed on the inverter circuit. This is how it is displayed on my block electrical diagram as well.
I also have the Freedom 2000 Inverter.
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05-27-2021, 09:58 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Quantum JM31
State: Tennessee
Posts: 697
THOR #21926
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Guys I will come back here and post an update when I figure out what is going on with the inverter. Probably something dumb I am doing. When the guy at the dealership did the checkout with us before we signed the papers just pointed at the remote display and said this is your inverter. It is a good thing we are not newbies because we would be in deep dodo if we were trying to use the coach from what they told us.
We got home yesterday and put the new Quantum in the garage. The fun starts now. First thing we had to do when we got home was to go down to Lowe's and pickup the new washer/dryer for the Quantum. We ordered it before we left for Florida because I was concerned about availability with all the shortages in the RV industry. It was not scheduled to be delivered until today May 27 but the day we got to Florida they started sending emails that it was ready to be picked up. The last email said they were going to cancel the order if it was not picked up by close of business yesterday. Got the washer/dryer out of the package last night and going out to start that project in a bit. Wife says that takes priority over the inverter. Oh well, I know how to pick my battles and some of them are just not worth the energy it takes to wage them.
Bob
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06-07-2021, 01:05 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Quantum JM31
State: Tennessee
Posts: 697
THOR #21926
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Thor sent me a drawing with the inverter connected outlets marked and I am happy to say they are all working. Not sure why I thought the television did not work on the inverter but it does. I must have been doing something stupid in the haste of the moment. Here in my garage under perfect working conditions everything checks out. I had the main television running on a channel supplied by the Wally satellite receiver and switched off the breaker in my garage AC panel that supplies the shore power to the RV. The television did not skip a beat.
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Bob
2022 Quantum JM31
2023 Colorado Z71
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06-09-2021, 05:28 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Damon Daybreak
State: New Mexico
Posts: 359
THOR #19133
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Good to hear.
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