What A Shock At The Thor Dealer Yesterday!!

[The Gritz Carlton]

Days away from trading and went for a closer look at the 2023 Tiburon. Dealer had 4 in stock...not a single unit could be bought. 2 had slides (small slide) half pulled trying to fix misalignment. Doors rubbing other components inside, folding bed hitting valance over blinds, serious electrical issues throughout one of them, parts of cabinet cover plates popped off during transit, the "bungee cord" that holds the folding bed in the up position was screwed into a piece of trim molding behind the bed...pulled loose and bed smashed TV and wall when it crashed down during transit, the front power awning assembly in the overhead cap had fallen out on the bed on two of them ...it was so sad. The Thor Theory is wonderful and we were very lucky with our 2018 Super C...but they must really have the labor problems today. Great designs that would work if just simply built a little better. My heart actually hurt for the employees and engineers there that really do their part of the job correctly. Thor is knowingly shipping them (and dealers are accepting them) in this condition with all the red tape stuck everywhere identifying incomplete things that need attention. Dealers can't even keep up with their own service needs...much less finish Thor's job. I walked away, across the yard and will soon be another S.O.B.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Some blame the kids... I blame the parents. It's the parents responsibility to teach their kids... NO EXCUSES - and no one else to blame.

I learned this concept very early in my career as a supervisor. I was nearly fired for not "educating" an employee about how to do their job. It was MY JOB to do this.

Either hire fully qualified employees and pay them well... or TRAIN employees to do their jobs correctly - and pay them well. I have the feeling that NEITHER concept is understood... OR intentionally ignored. And people accept this as "normal"??

[Matthew]

After hearing these stories, glad we have a pre-covid Thor. Seems to be a big difference in quality control since my 2020 was built (in 2019).

[EA37TS]

As long as the dealers accept the substandard products from all manufacturers the problems will continue.

Before a local dealer was bought by Camping World they quit selling Fleetwood because of shoddy work and issues with warranty reimbursement. After CW bought the dealer their first action was to bring back Fleetwood, junk and all. This was about 2 years prior to COVID.

[The Gritz Carlton]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

As long as the dealers accept the substandard products from all manufacturers the problems will continue.

Before a local dealer was bought by Camping World they quit selling Fleetwood because of shoddy work and issues with warranty reimbursement. After CW bought the dealer their first action was to bring back Fleetwood, junk and all. This was about 2 years prior to COVID.

This is the root of the problem for sure...but...as they said..."if we don't take them we don't get RV's and that's what our business is about". It's just so sad...I've always been a huge fan of Thor...excellent CS for me and we got a great coach. I guess this is the result of trying to be the biggest in the world at something and unable to manage it all the way through. Be careful what you ask for, huh?

[Lt Keefer]

The dealer is part of the problem for sure. The uninformed consumer is another problem. However the manufacturers must step up and enforce a QC program.

[saddlesore]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

I walked away, across the yard and will soon be another S.O.B.

That is What we did Many Years ago.. Left Thor and all other massed produced RV manufacturers.. Found the Quality and Durability We desired in a 12 year old [they build 48/50 RV's per year] SOB, And in a 15 year old [They build 24/25 RV's per Year] SOB ..
Bought the 1st SOB.... The up front/ out the door costs were about the same as the similar, but brand new Latest & Greatest Whizz-Bang, Multi-slide out Thor product, without feeling that I had to re-assemble it.


Our Coach is now 20 years young.and still meeting our needs, Without the Drama.
40' w tag axle
ISM-500/1550 torque



Serendipity..

There is a Mercedes powered Tiburon that just pulled in 3 spaces down from us.. Just talked with the owners.. 1st trip after 4 weeks in shop for the 3rd time for stuff failing and/or just not fixed.. They are NOT Happy Campers... Not One Bit..

[MJC62]

Wanted 2nd shift Quality Inspector at an RV mfg. (Winnebago I think) in Middlebury Indiana. The advertised pay rate $17-$19 an hour. This is an example of what the RV Industry is paying the guy/gal that is checking the quality of the rigs going out the door.
Another help wanted add for an RV mfg in NE Indiana is looking for assembly workers $29-$41 K a year. Poverty level income in 2022 for a single worker was $27,750.
Not making excuses for the poor quality of the RV's coming off the lines but just to put in perspective. The old adage you get what you pay for definitely applies to the RV manufacturing industry. They pay these people s**t and still list the rigs at premium prices.

[DavidEM]

Originally Posted by saddlesore

That is What we did Many Years ago.. Left Thor and all other massed produced RV manufacturers.. Found the Quality and Durability We desired in a 12 year old Foretravel, And in a 15 year old Newell..bought the Foretravel.... The up front/ out the door costs were about the same as the similar, but brand new Thor product, without feeling that I had to re-assemble it.

Ahhh, but when you and the dealer resolve all of the issues you then have a coach as nice as the 15 yr old one was when it was new. Well not quite but maybe close.

David

[dkoldman]

My experience 3 years ago. I tried very hard to be a Thor Owner. But if I recall all of the issue that blocked my PDI were Dealer induced issues (i.e. damage, exploded batteries non working slides etc.) RVs I sought had been on the lots the longest and had the most issues. Dealer would not fix and I would not buy.

But on the bright side, the Thor Dealers taught me what to look for and what not to trust. In a odd way, I guess it fitting I would be a SOB.

[Matthew]

Originally Posted by saddlesore

That is What we did Many Years ago.. Left Thor and all other massed produced RV manufacturers.. Found the Quality and Durability We desired in a 12 year old [they build 48/50 RV's per year] SOB, And in a 15 year old [They build 24/25 RV's per Year] SOB ..
Bought the 1st SOB.... The up front/ out the door costs were about the same as the similar, but brand new Latest & Greatest Whizz-Bang, Multi-slide out Thor product, without feeling that I had to re-assemble it.


Our Coach is now 20 years young.and still meeting our needs, Without the Drama.
40' w tag axle
ISM-500/1550 torque



Serendipity..

There is a Mercedes powered Tiburon that just pulled in 3 spaces down from us.. Just talked with the owners.. 1st trip after 4 weeks in shop for the 3rd time for stuff failing and/or just not fixed.. They are NOT Happy Campers... Not One Bit..

Funny, just had the same conversation with a camping neighbor that has a new Airstream. $150,000 for a trailer! He and the wife bet on what will break on the trip. Second new Airstream owner I've had this comment from. Guess the whole industry has its issues.

[Dan-sr@perra-us.net]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

Days away from trading and went for a closer look at the 2023 Tiburon. Dealer had 4 in stock...not a single unit could be bought. 2 had slides (small slide) half pulled trying to fix misalignment. Doors rubbing other components inside, folding bed hitting valance over blinds, serious electrical issues throughout one of them, parts of cabinet cover plates popped off during transit, the "bungee cord" that holds the folding bed in the up position was screwed into a piece of trim molding behind the bed...pulled loose and bed smashed TV and wall when it crashed down during transit, the front power awning assembly in the overhead cap had fallen out on the bed on two of them ...it was so sad. The Thor Theory is wonderful and we were very lucky with our 2018 Super C...but they must really have the labor problems today. Great designs that would work if just simply built a little better. My heart actually hurt for the employees and engineers there that really do their part of the job correctly. Thor is knowingly shipping them (and dealers are accepting them) in this condition with all the red tape stuck everywhere identifying incomplete things that need attention. Dealers can't even keep up with their own service needs...much less finish Thor's job. I walked away, across the yard and will soon be another S.O.B.

This is not a new problem and doesn't apply only to Thor. Years ago, while camping in my Tiffin Allegro I had a guy with an Allegro Bus in the next camp site. While I had no problems with my unit His much more expensive luxury motorhome had no end of problems. Cabinet doors falling off things not working leaks etc. In my experience you get what you pay for is not always what you think it should be, my experience was relatively problem free in a bottom of the line unit, while the top-of-the-line unit was one great big problem. Bugger price bigger problems.

[Chateau_Nomad]

We got one of the last pre-covid builds... 2020 model, fall of 2019. The only factory related issue we had was a fried rear camera connection... probably not fully seated.

All other components and hardware seem to work as expected. While not the quality of a high end coach, it fulfills our needs. The people I feel bad for are the ones getting ripped off buying the exact same motorhome two years later - there's NO WAY a 50% list markup can be justified by the B.S. "supply chain shortages".

I got lucky with a decently assembled unit... the SAME units, poorly assembled at 50% more?? There's no shame...

[saddlesore]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

Ahhh, but when you and the dealer resolve all of the issues you then have a coach as nice as the 15 yr old one was when it was new. Well not quite but maybe close.

David

Nope, The Thor Infinity was Not Even Close on quality of design, build or the house /GM chassis components expected lifespan..

[RACarvalho]

There is no system, there is no government model, there is no organization that survives moral decline, it is just that.

Since America Big business where contaminated with the curse of shareholders profit first and at any cost, the paying customer became just a liability and not the reason for the company existence.

But that is spread across all business and the RV industry is not the worst:
After a quick stay at the covid butcher zone (hospital) back in 2021 , I was told my liver would take a minimum 4 months to recover and there was nothing I could do.
Because I know south America natural medicine, I took a tea that cost $2 a box at a Mexican grocery store and in 1.5 weeks my liver was better than ever....
The doctor as amazed about my quick recovery but She didn't asked me what I did, didn't asked me nothing for she was not interested in learn how people can be cured fast.... but
when I was in the hospital She did offered me Rendezivir ($$$$) though, a drug that kills 26% of people that take it.... I obviously refused...

And I can go on and on...

Bottom line is that business today sees us like loose and alone sheep in the field.
Utterly stupid animals ready to die so someone else can get fat...

[Chateau_Nomad]

"Curse of shareholders profit"... spot on. An unsustainable system. If you can't "out innovate" your competition, buy them out with borrow funds... YIKES!!

P.S. If Thor reads these threads, please check out the new Brinkley units. That's innovation in today's RV market.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

"Curse of shareholders profit"... spot on. An unsustainable system. If you can't "out innovate" your competition, buy them out with borrow funds... YIKES!!

P.S. If Thor reads these threads, please check out the new Brinkley units. That's innovation in today's RV market.

Being a shareholder myself, I'm not against improving shareholders profit BUT, you should not kill the golden egg chicken so in her last days it will lay double the quantity....
A constant focus on improving share performance and dividends moves the company overall focus from the customer to the shareholders and the rest is history... the customer really becomes a liability....

I had the opportunity to see the Brinkley 5er at Indianapolis RV show last week.
It is an amazing product compared to our baselines BUT there is really nothing extraordinary, only the decision to break norms and move to more contemporary components / decoration.
If I was in the market for a 5er that would be at the top of our list.

The guys that stated Brinkley are the same that started Grand Design...

Which remembers me that when Grand Design started, we almost bought an Imagine (5er) for it was innovative and, we perceived at the time, had a good quality (We had a Rockwood at the time so we are spoiled ) but now that Grand Design was sold to Winnebago, the units we saw at the show doesn't seem to have the same quality of construction anymore....

Which seems to be another example of what we are talking about:
Small company focus on customer brings innovation and quality then is bought by big company that focus on ever increasing shareholder value and things go downhill....

[lwmcguir]

Should the industry have to double the wages or more to cover the lack of quality workers and increase QC the rig price will certainly go up considerably.

Auto workers make around 4 times as much money so there is room to pay RV workers with the exception of customer kickback due to the increased price.

Our 2016 build has been extremely solid except for the kinked hoses, electrical cord on TV and very few small items.

QC could have caught every item we had issues with, so for our Coach it would have only taken a supervisor a walk through too kept Thor from paying out thousands fixing the small problems that turned into big problems. The delivery driver was even part of the problem so education and job performance plus the QC to monitor the system.

Going to be interesting to see where all this goes and when you factor in inflation prices are going up like a rocket, they have to.

[Chateau_Nomad]

I'm surprised someone hasn't devised a way to build modular kits in China and ship them back to the U.S. duty free. It's the American way...

[Frank@theShop]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

Days away from trading and went for a closer look at the 2023 Tiburon. Dealer had 4 in stock...not a single unit could be bought. 2 had slides (small slide) half pulled trying to fix misalignment. Doors rubbing other components inside, folding bed hitting valance over blinds, serious electrical issues throughout one of them, parts of cabinet cover plates popped off during transit, the "bungee cord" that holds the folding bed in the up position was screwed into a piece of trim molding behind the bed...pulled loose and bed smashed TV and wall when it crashed down during transit, the front power awning assembly in the overhead cap had fallen out on the bed on two of them ...it was so sad. The Thor Theory is wonderful and we were very lucky with our 2018 Super C...but they must really have the labor problems today. Great designs that would work if just simply built a little better. My heart actually hurt for the employees and engineers there that really do their part of the job correctly. Thor is knowingly shipping them (and dealers are accepting them) in this condition with all the red tape stuck everywhere identifying incomplete things that need attention. Dealers can't even keep up with their own service needs...much less finish Thor's job. I walked away, across the yard and will soon be another S.O.B.

Not all dealers accept defective products. It is well within a dealership's right to refuse a unit that they feel has too many defects to repair in a reasonable amount of time. It is not in the dealers interest to accept a unit that will be "unsellable" and "waiting on parts" for months. In the RV industry, what a unit is worth at this time, is NOT what it will be worth 6 months from now. 6 months is roughly equal to 4-7% is retail value. Well managed dealerships are aware of this and refuse a unit they do not think they will be able to sellable within weeks, if not days. Oh, and defects are usually marked in blue tape, not red. Sometimes yellow.