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Old 08-07-2018, 10:42 PM   #41
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Great, I will definitely look into interstate. Thank you for the advice

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Old 08-07-2018, 11:47 PM   #42
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X2 on the Interstate. Mine are working out great.
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Old 08-08-2018, 12:24 PM   #43
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Other than the weight and the cost: are there any other factors; where 12 volt batteries are "better" than their 6-volt counterparts?
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Old 08-08-2018, 12:41 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by BJ Smith View Post
Hello and I can not tell you all how helpful this Forum is. I have a question that I can't seem to find an answer to. I have a Thor 23U 2018. How long should the batteries last under normal use when not plugged in and on a full charge? I take my MH out to campgrounds with no power. The batteries don't last more than a day with minimal use.

I had the entire electrical system checked and they tell me it is all OK. Am I expecting too much here?? Seems like they should go for 2 to 3 days?? NO? Thanks for any insight.
I assume you have (2) 12-volt batteries on your house bank? I am guessing 2 or 3 days without any generator or solar would be asking too much. Our house bank consists of (8) 6-volt and we can only get 4 days.
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Old 08-08-2018, 12:54 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
Other than the weight and the cost: are there any other factors; where 12 volt batteries are "better" than their 6-volt counterparts?
I cant think of any.
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Old 08-08-2018, 01:06 PM   #46
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I Our house bank consists of (8) 6-volt and we can only get 4 days.
Question: How much do they weigh?
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Old 08-08-2018, 01:12 PM   #47
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One difference .....

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Other than the weight and the cost: are there any other factors; where 12 volt batteries are "better" than their 6-volt counterparts?

For motorhomes with two batteries, which is fairly common, one advantage to having two 12-Volt batteries in parallel is that if one battery fails completely (like open circuit) you can still get by somewhat with 50% of battery capacity.

When you have two 6-Volt batteries in series, if either fails completely, you are out of business.

Complete failures are rare but occassionally occur.
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Old 08-08-2018, 01:18 PM   #48
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Question: How much do they weigh?
Don’t know his specifics, but one of the most common 6-Volt golf cart battery weighs around 62 pounds, so an 8-battery bank would be right around 500 pounds. It’s a lot of weight, but yields 1.5 kW-hour each for 12 kW-hours total. That’s a lot of energy (more than half of that useable).
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Old 08-08-2018, 01:20 PM   #49
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Chance has a good point.

The 6 V are very heavy but IMO thats NOT a problem but it could be for some applications.

To me Heavier the Better when it comes to lead acid batteries.
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Old 08-08-2018, 01:23 PM   #50
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My AGM 6 Volts came in at 73# each on my uncertified home scale. Thats Heavy. And they are group 27 size.
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Old 08-08-2018, 01:34 PM   #51
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Group 27s: that's what my rig has in it now...
I spoke to the Missus about our options for battery replacement (When the time comes) She said that even though they're pricier: how much would you be willing to pay for power; if you had none?
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Old 08-08-2018, 01:43 PM   #52
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My AGM 6 Volts came in at 73# each on my uncertified home scale. Thats Heavy. And they are group 27 size.
Since batteries come in all sizes, I like to compare them based on rated energy storage per weight. I think that AGMs usually weigh a little more than flooded for the same energy capacity, although we’d have to look at individual models since they are very close.

Another way to compare is also based on “useable” storage since some batteries can be discharged deeper than others given the same number of expected cycles.

And yet another way to compare is based on power capability, which is more important for those who need lots of current for very short periods. An example are those who have large inverter to power coffee maker or microwave, which require lots of power, but for 5 minutes or less. That’s a lot different than the same amount of energy spread over many hours to power a TV or the like. There’s a lot to consider.
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Old 08-08-2018, 01:54 PM   #53
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Chance,
Now that inverters have been mentioned: Is it difficult to replace a 1000 watt version; with an 1800 watt one, and rewire some connections, so that there is power available to more features in the rig?
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Old 08-08-2018, 02:35 PM   #54
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I've thought about changing out the two 6V's for two 12V's for the exact reason Chance describes above. Wire them with a Guest Switch like the boat has. I could use one or both but cut them both off at the battery location. What would be be the down side of this?
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Old 08-08-2018, 03:09 PM   #55
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Chance,
Now that inverters have been mentioned: Is it difficult to replace a 1000 watt version; with an 1800 watt one, and rewire some connections, so that there is power available to more features in the rig?
It is plug and play if you stay with the same brand and series of inverter for the 120 Volt circuits. If you want a 20 amp circuit you will have to rewire with 12 ga Romex. Now for the 12 volts there is a problem. You need to replace the 4 ga battery wire and a 200 amp circuit breaker and run 1/0 ga wire to the new inverter. Of course you could ad another 4 ga wire and circuit breaker parallel to the existing battery wire. The battery wire size assumes the battery bank is no further than 5 ft from the inverter. If the cable run is further, you need to use a wire gauge chart to find the size wire you need. In my coach the battery cable run is 18 ft, so Thor used 2 ga wire for the 1,000 watt inverter. For 1,000 watts @ 12.4 volts = 80 amps - consider 86% efficiency = 94 amps max draw. For 1,800 watts @12.4 volts = 145 amps - consider 86% efficiency = 169 amps.
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Old 08-08-2018, 03:16 PM   #56
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it will depend on several factors, one which is whether you are a 'handy' person and want to tackle it yourself.

Since the larger Inverters, like our Magnum ME2012 2000w version, with ME-RC remote control panel, feed a 'sub-panel' of circuit breakers to all of the outlets, including the fridge and the microwave, you would need to provide the connection to all of these breakers.
Within my power control center Breaker Panel, I have a 50-amp Double-Pole set of breakers that provide Shore Power/Generator Power to the 2 Air Conditioners, Battery Charger, Water Heater(elec), and Engine Block heater. Another set of 15a tandem breakers, which are to all the outlets, are fed thru the 30amp 'sub panel' breaker from the Inverter, which is a 'backward' feed.
Why do they do this versus a 'real' sub-panel'? I suppose to save space... and it works just fine.

Depending on your coach's electrical panel layout, you will have to decide how to manage these connections, as a larger Inverter can certainly provide you more options for off-grid power.... and like us, it's to ALL of the outlets, not just a select few.
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Old 08-08-2018, 03:54 PM   #57
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Inverter draw current

Has anyone even measured the idle current draw of these inverters everyone is talking about. Once the inverter is supplied with 12V, it does not know if there is a load so it is running and using current. My sinewave inverter draws quite a bit of current when 12V is applied to the unit, enough to run batteries down in a few days. I found out the hard way by leaving the Run/Store switch on accidentally with everything else off in the RV for a couple of days not connected to shore power. Leaving the Run/Store switch in the Store position for over a week showed a discharge of less than 30 mV in my Thor Vegas 25.2 RV.
I would hope that the little green light goes off when the Run/Store switch is in the Store position in your other various RVs. If the indicator light is on, you are probably using at least a few watts of power when the inverter is active but not supplying any exterior load.
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Old 08-08-2018, 05:29 PM   #58
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Has anyone even measured the idle current draw of these inverters everyone is talking about. Once the inverter is supplied with 12V, it does not know if there is a load so it is running and using current. My sinewave inverter draws quite a bit of current when 12V is applied to the unit, enough to run batteries down in a few days. I found out the hard way by leaving the Run/Store switch on accidentally with everything else off in the RV for a couple of days not connected to shore power. Leaving the Run/Store switch in the Store position for over a week showed a discharge of less than 30 mV in my Thor Vegas 25.2 RV.
I would hope that the little green light goes off when the Run/Store switch is in the Store position in your other various RVs. If the indicator light is on, you are probably using at least a few watts of power when the inverter is active but not supplying any exterior load.

Yep, current draw when sitting on many inverters - I bet one can look up how much of a draw on the owners manual for each inverter.

I hooked up a 1200 watt inverter to my Axis but the Run/Store switch powers it down. IMO its the only way to go. But I still have a few "Vampires" on my system but at least I can let it sit for a few weeks (Or more - have not tested how long yet) and not have a dead battery.
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Old 08-08-2018, 05:40 PM   #59
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Major inverter manufacturers list this idling power consumption in their specifications. It was more than I expected, although specs show quite a bit of variation even for same size inverter.
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Old 08-08-2018, 05:46 PM   #60
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the Inverter would not be in the 'switch' off/on loop since it is not a 12v device, it is a 120v device that inverts 12v to 120v power, WHEN it is ON, and WHEN a device/outlet is asking for the power. Simply turn it off if you don't need it.

another neat benefit of some Inverters, like my Magnum, is the SEARCH WATTS feature, that allows you to leave the inverter 'ON', technically, though it's small consumption of power is much more limited, as it is really only waiting silently until a demand of a minimum number of watts is requested, such as your fridge when the compressor needs to run. It just gives some more possibilities to off-grid 'saving' of watts/amps when most other things are not in use, but some device may want to be supplied with power, when it needs it.
I did this a while back, after we had returned from a trip, and yet was not leaving again for several days, while the coach sat in storage with no external power. My solar on the roof kept the batteries charged during the day, and the SEARCH WATTS feature setting allowed the FRIDGE to remain active, and cold, during the overnight hours on the batteries, limiting the Inverter to only when the fridge actually NEEDED the power.
Worked very well, especially with a lot of good 'sun light' days. No need to completely empty the fridge for another trip in the near future.
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