Change of direction; now looking at Axis/Vegas 24.1

[TimmyB]

Originally Posted by Long & Winding road

This is awesome Chance. I need to look into it. Some of the "under bed" storage would still require you to remove the front tires on the bikes in order to fit under the bed.

Or wont even fit a full size "Large" "mtn bike" with 160mm travel suspension etc. Plus my bike get muddy so I rather keep the mess outside (or in a dedicated box for the bikes only).

Yeah I sure do wish they had a Axis size RUV with the last 3.5 - 4 foot (29 - 30 foot total length) as a dedicated garage that can open on both sides of the RV and is like 6 foot tall with cabinets etc above. I dont need an actual Toy hauler (right now). I like small compact (but not too compact) RV.

But this storage box might be the way to go.

I called this company today and spoke with a really knowledgeable guy named Carl. He told me without question that this unit (The Black Box) could handle my two road bikes, fully assembled. He said the reason that they show the pics with the front wheel removed is so that the forks are locked in and they are secure. He said as long as I understood that I would need to somehow secure my two bikes while they were in the box, it would work just fine. Now, decisions, decisions...

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by TimmyB

That's what I was thinking, as well, but I clearly have no expertise to draw from on this.

Me either.... But if its just a few inches longer i bet it wont make a difference. A foot maybe.... Two foot? 3?

[Mr Sunshine]

Um, back to the OP. Driving into the sun is awful in any vehicle, and there are times when it is best to just pull over and let the sun set. That big screen is great when needed and that big window is awesome for scenery.
We rarely used the oven in our last coach, and we use those drawers in that spot. Our 25.2 has about 2/3 of the storage, both inside and out, of what our 33' Class A had.
TimmyB, your comment "all the kinks out" made me laugh. All coaches, new and used, are going to have issues. Some more than other.

Are you looking at new or used? Some cling to the theory that the first owner gets most of the problems worked out during the warranty 12 months. For your first RV, consider buying a used rig. You'll have less invested, and you'll lose less if you find you want to trade for something more suitable. There are plenty of used Vegas/Axis out there below $50K.

[TimmyB]

Originally Posted by Mr Sunshine

Um, back to the OP. Driving into the sun is awful in any vehicle, and there are times when it is best to just pull over and let the sun set. That big screen is great when needed and that big window is awesome for scenery.
We rarely used the oven in our last coach, and we use those drawers in that spot. Our 25.2 has about 2/3 of the storage, both inside and out, of what our 33' Class A had.
TimmyB, your comment "all the kinks out" made me laugh. All coaches, new and used, are going to have issues. Some more than other.

Are you looking at new or used? Some cling to the theory that the first owner gets most of the problems worked out during the warranty 12 months. For your first RV, consider buying a used rig. You'll have less invested, and you'll lose less if you find you want to trade for something more suitable. There are plenty of used Vegas/Axis out there below $50K.

Well, when I say get all the kinks out, I was meaning more in line with "we've seen what doesn't work, so we'll improve that in next year's model". Case in point, the cracking windshield on the early years of the Axis/Vegas line. I am absolutely expecting there to be QC issues that will need to be addressed (probably by me, down the road somewhere). I'm a newbie, but not THAT naive!

As for new vs used, I am petrified of something major happening to the powertrain that is not covered by warranty. I have zero resources to fix it other than the dealer or a Ford dealership. I know I'll pay more but that peace of mind is exactly what "insurance" is.

Thanks for the feedback. It is much appreciated!

[Mr Sunshine]

Originally Posted by TimmyB

...I am petrified of something major happening to the powertrain that is not covered by warranty...

IMHO, the power train is the most reliable component of any RV. It's all the rest of that stuff, hammered by the portable earthquake and hurricane abuse of going down the road that I worry about. Your results may vary...

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by TimmyB

I called this company today and spoke with a really knowledgeable guy named Carl. He told me without question that this unit (The Black Box) could handle my two road bikes, fully assembled. He said the reason that they show the pics with the front wheel removed is so that the forks are locked in and they are secure. He said as long as I understood that I would need to somehow secure my two bikes while they were in the box, it would work just fine. Now, decisions, decisions...

Thats awesome. How much are they going for?

[Chance]

Originally Posted by TimmyB

I was concerned about sitting so far forward in a Class A, but it's really an illusion. There is a large amount of space between the driver and the actual front end of the vehicle in the 24.1. Hopefully, I'll continue to not know if that amount is sufficient or not!

....cut....

I wasn’t implying driver and passenger don’t sit back far enough to be safe. I was trying to answer one reason the Axis is shorter. Driver sitting higher and further forward compared to a Cutaway is a subtle difference many don’t notice. I think most buyers actually like the higher position of the Axis even if unaware of the extra height.

As a point of historical interest, the first Class A built on E-Series Stripped chassis (like Axis/Vegas) a few years earlier that I’m aware of had the driver and passenger seats lower and further back like on regular Class Cs. The biggest advantage I noticed was that the floor was level through cab area, integrating the front seats into living space more like what we see in diesel pushers. It did make the unit a bit longer though.


Anyway, I’m also interested in cargo carrier price. Did they share that information?

[TimmyB]

Originally Posted by Chance

...Anyway, I’m also interested in cargo carrier price. Did they share that information?

Yes, it was $1999. Here is the link.

https://letsgoaero.com/blackbox-slid...losed-carrier/

[TimmyB]

They have a showroom in Colorado springs. My wife and I are going to be in Denver at the end of July so we are planning on seeing one in person then. They are indeed pricey but the way I look at it, we'd easily pay that much and more to have a garage in our motorhome, and if it doesn't work out, it still has resale value.

[tag8015]

PLEASE PLEASE DON'T BUY ANYTHING FROM THOR. Biggest piece of junk I have ever seen. Biggest mistake I've ever made.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by TimmyB

They have a showroom in Colorado springs. My wife and I are going to be in Denver at the end of July so we are planning on seeing one in person then. They are indeed pricey but the way I look at it, we'd easily pay that much and more to have a garage in our motorhome, and if it doesn't work out, it still has resale value.

Yeah, I’d gladly pay $2,000 extra for a nice-size bike garage too, although I think the added cost to modify an Axis 24.1 design to be more like a Hymer would be very little. I seriously doubt that it would cost Thor more than $500 per unit.

That assumes raising beds a little, installing a step at bedroom, and relocating generator forward. All are minor revisions. I would rather lose a little headroom in bedroom than add 3~4 feet to motorhome length as Long & Winding road mentioned. While sleeping I don’t need that much room over the bed(s).

Attached is picture of a Thor Hymer about the length of an Axis 24.1, and it can be seen the bike-size garage doesn’t add any length. The beds are just a little higher — along with garage floor a little lower. I think that’s a better solution than adding a lot of length.

[TimmyB]

The Unity Wonder RTB had a cool sliding tray that goes into a for just like that. Only problem is, they go for about $130K, and that's not going to work for our first RV!

[Chance]

Tim, as long as there is enough overall room or space, the bike tray itself is fairly easy to replicate. Quite a few cycling-oriented DIY camping van conversions have a bike tray or two under a platform bed. An internet search shows they are very common and have been around for years.

Most (like on attached pictures) are built out of wood and are designed for low profile as to maximize bike height. They look like it would make loading bikes close together much easier, hence could get by with smaller bike garage.

Regarding the Wonder from Leisure Van, that is pricey. Compared to an Axis Class A, it’s a Class C which is typically lower-cost (everything else being equal), and it has no slide which should also be lower-cost. Granted, it’s a diesel, but that only justifies $3,000 ~ 5,000. The biggest difference from what I saw at the Houston RV Show is that Leisure Vans seem built to a higher standard than entry level Thors. The one I saw in Houston a couple of years ago was almost too nice to take camping.

[TimmyB]

Originally Posted by Chance

Tim, as long as there is enough overall room or space, the bike tray itself is fairly easy to replicate. Quite a few cycling-oriented DIY camping van conversions have a bike tray or two under a platform bed. An internet search shows they are very common and have been around for years.

Most (like on attached pictures) are built out of wood and are designed for low profile as to maximize bike height. They look like it would make loading bikes close together much easier, hence could get by with smaller bike garage.

Regarding the Wonder from Leisure Van, that is pricey. Compared to an Axis Class A, it’s a Class C which is typically lower-cost (everything else being equal), and it has no slide which should also be lower-cost. Granted, it’s a diesel, but that only justifies $3,000 ~ 5,000. The biggest difference from what I saw at the Houston RV Show is that Leisure Vans seem built to a higher standard than entry level Thors. The one I saw in Houston a couple of years ago was almost too nice to take camping.

Yeah, I'm not sure why but Leisure is almost like Apple in the way they control the price that the dealers can sell for. Get caught "discounting" and you could lose your franchise. At least, that was the impression the Florida dealer gave us when we saw it. He told us they wouldn't even sell us the one they had in stock as they wouldn't have another one to show potential customers! Very strange marketing, but definitely a cool rig. There is a 22 minute video that they have on their website that just shows the cool features of the RTB model. It is a VERY well thought out unit, to say the least.

I hope that someday the manufacturers start figuring this out. There are tens of millions of people in the USA alone who are 1000 times more active than their parents generation. They want to hike, bike, kayak, etc. They want to run distance races and triathlons. Unfortunately, the RV industry seems to be caught in the "let's go build a campfire" era.

[Chance]

Here’s an idea. Build a few floorplans with large and tall storage compartments in rear that could accommodate bikes, but can be used for multiple purposes in modular design. Make available cargo and or bike trays as an option the dealer or owner can add. They already offer large heavy-duty cargo trays for basements of large motorhomes and trailers, so not a big design stretch.

Also offer removable outdoor kitchen modules that mount on tray so it could be pulled out from either side of motorhome, depending on need. Fridge or icebox may be nice under awning, but grill may be better in the open. Or any combination they can create. Bikes on one side and kitchen at other end.

Or just start by providing the basic space to work with. People can be creative in meeting their specific needs.

[Wonderdog]

Originally Posted by TimmyB

I have searched. And searched. I can find hard shell cargo boxes, but none for bikes.

Why do you need a garage or hard shell case? Bikes are made to be used outdoors in all kinds of weather. If you have a leather saddle (love my Brooks saddles) tie a plastic bag around it. Just drove through some storms today to get to Ocean Springs, MIssissippi. My Surley Long Haul Trucker and the wife's Specialized did fine riding outside mounted on the back of the toad.
Lube the chain, good to go.
Here my Trucker rests under the slideout on our 25 .2 Axis, ready to ride.

[TimmyB]

Originally Posted by Wonderdog

Why do you need a garage or hard shell case? Bikes are made to be used outdoors in all kinds of weather. If you have a leather saddle (love my Brooks saddles) tie a plastic bag around it. Just drove through some storms today to get to Ocean Springs, MIssissippi. My Surley Long Haul Trucker and the wife's Specialized did fine riding outside mounted on the back of the toad.
Lube the chain, good to go.
Here my Trucker rests under the slideout on our 25 .2 Axis, ready to ride.

If all someone is doing is riding a leisure bike, I might agree with you. That's not what the riding is that we are talking about. Whether you agree or not, or understand, it's kind of pretentious on your part to question someone else's needs or wants because you don't share them.

[Wonderdog]

Wow! Pretentious? Never Been called that before. My apologies. It was not my intent to ruffle feathers. I do understand others desires as I have observed many while long distance touring and cross racing. Bikes I know. People? Maybe I fall short there. Again, my apologies.

[TimmyB]

Originally Posted by Wonderdog

Wow! Pretentious? Never Been called that before. My apologies. It was not my intent to ruffle feathers. I do understand others desires as I have observed many while long distance touring and cross racing. Bikes I know. People? Maybe I fall short there. Again, my apologies.

My apologies, as well. Apparently, I misread your mood! I felt as though I was being criticized when, apparently that was not the case. That is what sucks about the printed word as opposed to actually speaking to one another. Often, we read tone that is not there.

You were trying to be helpful and I thank you for that. Again, please feel free to share any words of wisdom and I'll be not so quick to be defensive!

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by Wonderdog

Why do you need a garage or hard shell case? Bikes are made to be used outdoors in all kinds of weather. If you have a leather saddle (love my Brooks saddles) tie a plastic bag around it. Just drove through some storms today to get to Ocean Springs, MIssissippi. My Surley Long Haul Trucker and the wife's Specialized did fine riding outside mounted on the back of the toad.
Lube the chain, good to go.
Here my Trucker rests under the slideout on our 25 .2 Axis, ready to ride.

You are right, a little rain and road grime wont hurt my mtn bike... esp just after I covered it with mud anyway. And if I only spent $1000 I would agree with you.

But when you really into a sport you sometimes purchase the upper end products that perform the best and give you great satifaction riding them. Then when your traveling you might stop at a rest area or walmart parking lot and the thiefs see a $6000 bike with a couple of locks on it. VS them seeing a big box that might have firewood in it.

Sure I have some Heavy duty 4# U locks that would require them to use a power tools to grind or cut off (It would take too long to hack saw off and bolt cuters wont work on them).

Plus you might take an all day trip someplace (into town, lake etc) and leave your bikes at the campsite (or BLM). It sure would give me a piece of mind knowing someone cant "see" what is in my box - plus it will keep the bike clean until im ready to get it muddy.