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Old 06-26-2020, 04:06 PM   #1
Thor Palazzo 33.3 diesel
 
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Palazzo 33.3 34'bunkhouse
State: Georgia
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THOR #4735
Exclamation Diesel Pusher radiator/coolant leak

2014 Palazzo 33.3 rear radiator diesel pusher

I've had a strange set of circumstances lately with a coolant leak, right at the bottom right corner of the radiator.

I've attached the rear of the coach, and the 'bottom' of the right corner of radiator, which looks wet from the leakage. These rear radiators not only make it hard to see anything to do with the engine, but it's also VERY DIFFICULT to do anything associated WITH the radiator itself. The coolant reservoir tank is on the top right of the radiator, including the only access to the radiator itself, via the radiator cap. The cap is even hard to get off since it is right below the rear fiberglass back of the coach. Even when you add coolant, you have to be somewhat of a contortionist, with the rear access metal cover swinging up and in your way, but having to try to hold a gallon or more container of coolant almost above your head in order to have the appropriate 'down hill' run for the fluid to run into the coolant tank cap opening. Most of the time you have to use a variety of flexible funnels to even get close to being successful.


Several weeks ago I noticed a few drips below the area, on the pavement, while at a rest stop when traveling. I checked the level of the coolant reservoir, and it was just where it's 'always' been, right above the 'seam' of the coolant tank, between the 'Low' and 'Max' coolant level indicators. I don't know that I've ever had to actually 'add' any coolant, though I had the coolant replaced by a Cummins dealer back in 2016.
When we first started touring in the coach back in late 2014, I had noticed a leak in the FRONT of the coach, above the generator, which wound up being a leaking hose connection for the dash air conditioning unit, which also draws in this 'coolant', as well. Once that was resolved, we never had any other issue with the 'pink stuff' leaking out of either the front or rear of the coach.

So, lately this 'dripping' has been more pronounced. I've started checking it most anytime we stop, and when we are parked for several days, etc.

What's happening now, though, is it in NOT mostly dripping/leaking when we are TRAVELING, but when we are PARKED...crazy!

I have read some posts and other online conversations about this type of 'condition', and some assert that a pinhole or crack in the radiator can sometimes create this type of outcome - meaning that with 'heat', while traveling, the natural expansion of metal can 'close' up the hole or break, but when the coach is resting, and the temps cool off, especially overnight, the hole can reopen and coolant is lost while parked.
And, so, that sounds like it might 'fit' my situation, though it's funny, as last night I lost maybe a total of 3 gallons of coolant, dripping throughout yesterday after we arrived at a campground, all overnight, and into this morning when I awoke. I have been capturing this leaking coolant to reuse, but it's amazing HOW MUCH there is in there!

Now, there is no signs of any 'hoses' not connected tightly, no leaking around any hoses or areas that I can see, no dripping or running down from the top of the radiator area, or any other signs other than the area right at the bottom corner where the dripping is happening. Does it look like that is a place where a 'seam' is? Maybe so.

But, here's the rub. After emptying the catch basin this morning, and pouring it into another 1 gallon jug, I took that gallon and reapplied it back into the coolant reservoir, which I had several times before while the dripping continued. When I came back out a few minutes later, though, now about 10:30am this morning, with temps climbing into the mid 80s and the sun out, there is NO MORE DRIPPING, the catch pan is basically EMPTY, and the 'leaking point' at the bottom of the radiator has no drips. CRAZY!
Remember, this is just after I added ANOTHER gallon of coolant!

What gives? I'm just completely stumped, and have no IDEA of what to do, other than going to a Freightliner,Cummins, or Radiator shop, which is not going to be fun, since we LIVE in this coach.
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'14 Palazzo 33.3 bunkhouse 34' diesel
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Old 06-26-2020, 04:51 PM   #2
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THOR #5248
Find a truck repair facility that can pressure test it.
And bring your wallet. Had friend with a bad radiator and it cost him five thousand for a tow, replacement and install.
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Old 06-27-2020, 12:26 PM   #3
Thor Palazzo 33.3 diesel
 
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THOR #4735
update:

from 10am yesterday, til very early this morning, there was no further leaking/dripping

this morning, though, or at least sometime during the overnight when the temps dropped from yesterday's 90s to 70 or so overnight, the leaking STARTED again...

I'm waiting this morning til about 10am, when the temps will be back up, to see if the dripping stops before we leave.... if that's the case, I also wonder if I could put a small electric water heater below the radiator overnight in order to keep the temps above 75/80 degrees and see if that keeps the dripping from restarting....just an idea to test if the 'outside temperature' is what is driving this leak 'stoppage' during the heat of the day.
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Old 06-27-2020, 01:40 PM   #4
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THOR #11607
Personally I wouldn't continue playing with fire (or this case a leak). Radiator issues only get worse with time and you could end up with a serious leak potentially creating bigger issues. Time to head straight a repair facility.
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Old 06-27-2020, 01:43 PM   #5
Thor Palazzo 33.3 diesel
 
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
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THOR #4735
update again, today....

at about 8:30am, at temps about 73/74, the dripping stopped again...
I refilled the coolant tank, maybe 1 1/2 gallons

still no dripping

I'm beginning to realize that this is TEMPERATURE controlled. If it's a split/pinhole/crack somewhere within the radiator, or at a metal-to-plastic connection, it's becoming obvious that temperature is impacting expansion, metal I would assume, which is apparently then 'sealing' the area. I would think the only metal that 'changes' so rapidly with temperature would be Aluminum, which I also believe is the metal type of the radiator, especially the 'fins' and finer/thinner areas of the unit.

I've very difficult to access anything to do with this radiator and it's coolant tank. I can see that the tank has two outflows, with rubberized hoses attached, and can see that one leads to the far left side and down to the bottom of the radiator, where it is simply a 'drip tube'. I cannot see where the other outflow goes to, though I would 'guess' that this is the one that leads into the radiator, for the flow of liquids between the two.
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Old 06-27-2020, 05:12 PM   #6
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THOR #6903
You could try leaving your block heater on and see if it helps

Personally I would use some stop leak and get an appointment scheduled at a good place to have the radiator pulled and then decide if repair or replace is in order

You would think 6 years is a bit early for a radiator to start to fail but per the IRV2 forums there have been plenty fail quicker than that

good luck and sure hope you don't get stranded on the road

One good think about the rear radiator is to remove and replace is fairly straight forward and shouldn't result in a lot of labor hours
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Old 06-27-2020, 07:41 PM   #7
Thor Palazzo 33.3 diesel
 
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THOR #4735
yes, if I was able to have full power I might would try the Block Heater to see if it's temperature increase for the engine block would effect this leaking, but after leaving the campground today, and stopping at a Truck Shop for potential service on the radiator on Monday morning, I'm only accessing 20amp power, just enough for the roof air conditioner and a few other things.

I have used two different types of 'stop leak', the Bars Heavy Duty, and most recently the K-Seal. Both 'seemed' to have some immediate effect, and relieved my tensions a little, but after some time they both didn't ultimately stop anything, at least now that I'm more aware that the ambient 'temperature' may have more to do with this than anything else.

Since I've stopped at a Truck Shop, and will be seen sometime Monday, maybe we'll have more or a resolution to this before we move on in our travels.
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'14 Palazzo 33.3 bunkhouse 34' diesel
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100,000+mi since '14 - US, Alaska, Canada - Hiawassee, GA! (also, '14 Gulfstream Amerilite and '07 ForestRiver Rockwood) : )
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Old 06-27-2020, 08:01 PM   #8
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THOR #6903
Darn, sounds like a seam or large crack might be forming

Will be interesting to see what you find out

I have used both of those sealants and had success sometimes

My local Cummins shop pushes Irontite sealer and swears it is OK for the engine, haven't tried it but do have a bottle in the fluid tote in the basement, just in case
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Old 06-27-2020, 08:18 PM   #9
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Glad you're somewhere and hopefully they get it fixed.
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Old 06-30-2020, 12:07 AM   #10
Thor Palazzo 33.3 diesel
 
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Palazzo 33.3 34'bunkhouse
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THOR #4735
well, here's the update:

yesterday, while waiting out a beautiful Sunday at the shop, I decided to head back to the rear of the coach and start to 'disassemble' the radiator housing mounts. This is QUITE a job, as Freightliner builds these in such a way that it's really almost impossible to get to some of the bolts and nuts holding on not only the main radiator assembly, but all of the 'extra' items, like the coolant reservoir, the oil and transmission fluid dip-stick lines, the brake fluid reservoir canister, etc. The rear of your diesel radiator area is also VERY dusty and black dirty! Everything you touch is black dust. I was successful in removing most everything to relieve them from the main radiator brackets, but without having access to the rear of the radiator, I'm not really sure how ANYONE can remove the hoses and lines behind it.
I will admit that there is a lot more room to work when you remove the lower cover, and all the 'rubber' matting that they install, in an apparent effort to minimize dust getting into the backside of the rear cap!

today, the shop opened, and they quickly did a pressure test and found the obvious leak, where I knew it was...it's really hard to know whether it's the aluminum 'radiator' itself, or the black plastic modular edge, which are also prone to cracks.

after some checking, the manager quoted me $3,100 to install a NEW Frieghtliner radiator. after some balking from me, he went back and found another supplier for the same size and fit radiator for 'only' $2,300 installed. I still balked.

I guess I had done some 'work' that was not really needed, so I replaced some bolts, tightened them down.... and

so, with only 50 or so miles to get 'home', I packed up and left. No drips all the way home. No drips after arriving home. Nothing. at least not yet....

maybe I'll have them do the work, maybe not, but since no travel is in the near future, and it would take them several days to get the radiator anyway, I'll keep thinking ...

to be continued.. : /
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Old 06-30-2020, 12:20 AM   #11
Thor Palazzo 33.3 diesel
 
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THOR #4735
by the way, the shop also took me up on replacing the two FUEL FILTERS for the Cummins engine while I was there - the two I had been carrying around with me since last year. When I changed my oil last year and also tried to change these two filters, I ran into an issue. The primary 'Fleetgard' fuel filter, built totally of plastic, would NOT come off!
They say NOT to use a filter wrench, but only to use a socket wrench, which attaches to a special place on the bottom, to wrench it carefully off. But, no 'wrenching' from me would make it budge, and frankly, with it being plastic, I didn't want to take the chance that it might break, leaving me in a big bind. While I actually DID attempt to use a filter wrench, it also didn't budge even then. So I decided to wait until I was at a shop that could handle it.
Today, the primary mechanic had me jack up the coach to a height were he could slide under it with his creeper. He still barely made it, but eventually got the SECONDARY Water/Fuel separater filter off and replace with my 'Fleetgard' replacement.
BUT, he tried and tried with several different tools, a filter wrench included, to remove the primary PLASTIC one, with no luck. He also had another mechanic crawl under with him and they both tugged and pulled at the same time in a effort to loosen it, but with no luck. Both also knew that they could break it, and that would be quite a problem.
SO, the mechanic finally admitted that they couldn't get it off, but had seen this condition on other diesels and this type of plastic housing filter.

so, a no go on that filter replacement, although I haven't seen any signs that it 'needed' to be replaced, only that time and miles suggested it. Maybe next time. : /

I guess a Freightliner shop, or Gaffney, or Speedco might can handle it - who knows.
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'14 Palazzo 33.3 bunkhouse 34' diesel
KingTailgater2 Dish HD, 100w/5a SOLAR, BlueOx
100,000+mi since '14 - US, Alaska, Canada - Hiawassee, GA! (also, '14 Gulfstream Amerilite and '07 ForestRiver Rockwood) : )
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Old 06-30-2020, 12:22 AM   #12
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At least you now have time to make the best decision, instead of a no option decision while on a trip.
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Old 06-30-2020, 08:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurnerFam View Post
by the way, the shop also took me up on replacing the two FUEL FILTERS for the Cummins engine while I was there - the two I had been carrying around with me since last year. When I changed my oil last year and also tried to change these two filters, I ran into an issue. The primary 'Fleetgard' fuel filter, built totally of plastic, would NOT come off!
They say NOT to use a filter wrench, but only to use a socket wrench, which attaches to a special place on the bottom, to wrench it carefully off. But, no 'wrenching' from me would make it budge, and frankly, with it being plastic, I didn't want to take the chance that it might break, leaving me in a big bind. While I actually DID attempt to use a filter wrench, it also didn't budge even then. So I decided to wait until I was at a shop that could handle it.
Today, the primary mechanic had me jack up the coach to a height were he could slide under it with his creeper. He still barely made it, but eventually got the SECONDARY Water/Fuel separater filter off and replace with my 'Fleetgard' replacement.
BUT, he tried and tried with several different tools, a filter wrench included, to remove the primary PLASTIC one, with no luck. He also had another mechanic crawl under with him and they both tugged and pulled at the same time in a effort to loosen it, but with no luck. Both also knew that they could break it, and that would be quite a problem.
SO, the mechanic finally admitted that they couldn't get it off, but had seen this condition on other diesels and this type of plastic housing filter.

so, a no go on that filter replacement, although I haven't seen any signs that it 'needed' to be replaced, only that time and miles suggested it. Maybe next time. : /

I guess a Freightliner shop, or Gaffney, or Speedco might can handle it - who knows.
That is quite a deal on the water separator primary filter

Apparently quite a difference from what mine takes which is below

ABP N122R50419 by FREIGHTLINER

I have a spare plastic bowl and water sensor that I add to the exchange filter to make it fast and simple

What is the number of the primary that yours takes

Good luck on the radiator as well. Sure seems like they should last longer than 7 years or so but I know SOB's have been having issues for years
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Old 06-30-2020, 08:50 PM   #14
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https://www.grainger.com/product/5EC...g!437993990829!

it's the one on the top left, which doesn't have a 'see thru' water cup, but does the same job - with a drain petcock at the bottom. I may have said Fleetgard, as that was the Primary Filter, but this replacement for the fuel water separator is Baldwin, since the other brand that Freightliner/Thor adds was not available. This fuel water separator is not a filter that Cummins says that they provide with their ISB6.7L engine that go into motorhomes, but that Freightliner/Thor adds them later. News to me, but Cummins could find no 'Cummins' fuel water separator like what was on the engine originally. Oh Well.


I will say that in all our travels and over 100,000 miles, I've never seen water in it or had to drain any. The first one was changed at about 15-20k miles, this one at 107,000...
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'14 Palazzo 33.3 bunkhouse 34' diesel
KingTailgater2 Dish HD, 100w/5a SOLAR, BlueOx
100,000+mi since '14 - US, Alaska, Canada - Hiawassee, GA! (also, '14 Gulfstream Amerilite and '07 ForestRiver Rockwood) : )
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Old 06-30-2020, 08:55 PM   #15
Thor Palazzo 33.3 diesel
 
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THOR #4735
this is the 'Primary' fuel filter the shop could not get off the engine, and therefore couldn't change : /

all plastic, and a 'filter wrench' is not allowed... crazy.
https://resourcefulsupply.com/fleetg...hoCLaYQAvD_BwE
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Old 07-01-2020, 11:03 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurnerFam View Post
this is the 'Primary' fuel filter the shop could not get off the engine, and therefore couldn't change : /

all plastic, and a 'filter wrench' is not allowed... crazy.
https://resourcefulsupply.com/fleetg...hoCLaYQAvD_BwE
My build sheet called for a Fleetgard that looks ver similar but steel

However after I bought it the actual separator was larger and the number I posted

Which isn't as common as others and not in stock in many mon Freightliner stores/shops
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Old 07-01-2020, 11:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurnerFam View Post
this is the 'Primary' fuel filter the shop could not get off the engine, and therefore couldn't change : /

all plastic, and a 'filter wrench' is not allowed... crazy.
https://resourcefulsupply.com/fleetg...hoCLaYQAvD_BwE
FS1065 is what mine called for and or the version with the plastic bowl

It might cross over to your filter

So I have both as I didn't look closely when checking for water

Actual filter used is larger diameter and a bit shorter
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Old 07-01-2020, 11:31 AM   #18
Thor Palazzo 33.3 diesel
 
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THOR #4735
interesting 'update' :

after driving 75 or so miles from the shop, where the radiator pressure test was performed, and even idling for over 30 minutes half way there while visiting a friend's business, I arrived back 'home', with NO drips, leaks, or otherwise signs of any 'issue'.

strange, but I also didn't believe it would last as I'd seen this same 'no leak' condition several times over the last week, where the leak would not be evident until either parked for some time, or overnight when apparently temps dropped to a certain point that the 'hole' opened up and leaking began again, profusely at times.

But, we arrived here and shut her down on Monday afternoon, about 6 o'clock. Not a drip during that time, and not a drip SINCE - that's including all day yesterday, overnight last night, and now, this morning - nothing.

Maybe, just maybe, I have an idea:
over the course of several weeks, and several trips, I had added several 'stop leak' products - the Bars heavy duty, and most recently the K-seal. While both seemed to have some type of effect, I also now realize that it may have been more to do with temperature changes rather than the product itself.
But, I'm also wondering if the PRESSURE TEST at the shop made some type of extra 'umph' to push those chemicals down into that very low right corner where the leak is so evident, and even WHERE the shop mechanic said he saw the evidence of leakage when doing the test. If so, maybe these 'stop leak' products have now filled the hole.

Also, if that's the case, and that's a nice option to have when looking at a $3,000 bill to 'replace' a whole radiator, including all the time and labor to remove it, maybe this will give me more time to rectify the situation with other options, such as removing the radiator myself, and sending it to a radiator specialist to repair, or to replace the radiator with a new one myself. I've seen Freightliner radiators for $600 or so. for the XC chassis design.

As for the 'non removable' Primary Fuel Filter(Fleetgard), I'll have Gaffney change it the next time I'm in, which probably will be this year since I probably already need a 100,000 6 year follow-up, anyway. If not, a Speedco might can handle it, since they did it the first time.

We'll see...
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'14 Palazzo 33.3 bunkhouse 34' diesel
KingTailgater2 Dish HD, 100w/5a SOLAR, BlueOx
100,000+mi since '14 - US, Alaska, Canada - Hiawassee, GA! (also, '14 Gulfstream Amerilite and '07 ForestRiver Rockwood) : )
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Old 07-04-2020, 07:50 PM   #19
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THOR #4735
....update:

a week later, nothing, not a drip.


fixed itself?? : /
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Old 07-04-2020, 08:34 PM   #20
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Glad it's not leaking but I've always hated the "fixed itself" solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurnerFam View Post
....update:

a week later, nothing, not a drip.


fixed itself?? : /
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