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Old 12-26-2019, 02:08 PM   #81
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Hey admin, can you close this thread? Seems to no longer be of any value and trending to even more extremes.
There is an unsubscribe feature 🙄

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Old 12-26-2019, 02:26 PM   #82
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There is an unsubscribe feature 🙄
I know and my request to the admin stands. BTW, I am not subscribed to any threads.
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Old 12-26-2019, 03:17 PM   #83
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Class A front end diesel

Interesting discussion on previously build Class A front-end diesels

Tiffin Front Engine Diesel
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Old 12-26-2019, 04:51 PM   #84
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Final note on diesel vs gas. In the mid range between C and class A. There appears to be a gap in the 16,000 to 22,000 GCVW range. I have experience with Duramax pick ups. They were real strong. The V10 in our Vegas may not have the torque of the dmax but through hills in western NC I was able to navigate all the passes and engine never struggled.
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Old 12-26-2019, 05:32 PM   #85
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Interesting discussion on previously build Class A front-end diesels

Tiffin Front Engine Diesel

What is now Thor Motor Coach also made a front engine diesel that I liked a lot even though it was a little larger than I wanted. We found a lightly used one in Houston (were already out of production) and went to look at it, and as mentioned in that thread, engine noise was so loud that we didn’t even test drive it. The 4.5L diesel V6 also had some reported reliability issues. During the final year and a half of production, Damon switched to a Cummins engine on Freightliner chassis that was reportedly quieter, but that made them so much more desirable that I wasn’t able to find one to test drive.

Anyway, for Class As I think front engine diesel chassis had the advantage of being lower-cost than diesel pushers, but engine noise intrusion into driver’s area was difficult to control or overcome.

Manufacturers also tried mid-engine diesel designs but I think they didn’t take off either.
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Old 12-26-2019, 05:39 PM   #86
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What is now Thor Motor Coach also made a front engine diesel that I liked a lot even though it was a little larger than I wanted. We found a lightly used one in Houston (were already out of production) and went to look at it, and as mentioned in that thread, engine noise was so loud that we didn’t even test drive it. The 4.5L diesel V6 also had some reported reliability issues. During the final year and a half of production, Damon switched to a Cummins engine on Freightliner chassis that was reportedly quieter, but that made them so much more desirable that I wasn’t able to find one to test drive.

Anyway, for Class As I think front engine diesel chassis had the advantage of being lower-cost than diesel pushers, but engine noise intrusion into driver’s area was difficult to control or overcome.

Manufacturers also tried mid-engine diesel designs but I think they didn’t take off either.

I certainly wouldn't want to go that route but the 3500 Mercedes Sprinter with V6 diesel is a true and tested unit but only go up to a 24 footer I believe. Quiet and reliable.

Anything longer would definitely go the pusher diesel route.
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Old 12-26-2019, 06:23 PM   #87
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I certainly wouldn't want to go that route but the 3500 Mercedes Sprinter with V6 diesel is a true and tested unit but only go up to a 24 footer I believe. Quiet and reliable.

Anything longer would definitely go the pusher diesel route.

Mercedes bumped the GVWR of newest Sprinter chassis from 5,000 to 5,500 kg, which should allow for heavier motorhomes, but because the chassis wheelbase is limited to 170 inches (at least for now) it’s doubtful manufacturers will be able to make them much longer.

However, there are proven choices above Sprinter in size but smaller than diesel pushers. One of the most common I'm aware of at present is the Ford F-550 rated up to 19,500 pounds GVWR, and soon to be joined by F-600 up to 22,000 pounds GVWR.

Whether Sprinter or Ford, engine noise isn’t as much of an issue because the OEM firewall does a superior job keeping noise out of cab area.

For what it’s worth, there are smaller RV manufacturers that build smaller diesel motorhomes on F-350 and F-450 also, as well as RAM pickups and trucks.
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Old 12-26-2019, 07:05 PM   #88
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Final note on diesel vs gas. In the mid range between C and class A. There appears to be a gap in the 16,000 to 22,000 GCVW range. I have experience with Duramax pick ups. They were real strong. The V10 in our Vegas may not have the torque of the dmax but through hills in western NC I was able to navigate all the passes and engine never struggled.

A higher torque number is most important to help launch a vehicle from a stop, but as long as the transmission has additional gears to “multiply” the engine’s torque as needed, it’s not quite as important. Provided of course the driver doesn’t object to a gas engine running at 4,000 RPMs versus a diesel at 1,600 RPM.

The main reason newer transmissions now have up to 10-speeds is to allow the engine to operate in an efficient or powerful RPM range, depending on what’s needed at the time. With gas engines, additional gears is even more important.

I personally find the following Ford statements extremely revealing.
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Old 12-27-2019, 02:31 AM   #89
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I run a drag car, I understand torque and gear multiplication.
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Old 12-27-2019, 04:39 AM   #90
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The National Hot Dog and Sausage Council recently came out in disapproval of adults using ketchup on hot dogs. In a guide to hot dog etiquette, the organization decreed that for those 18 years of age and older, acceptable wiener toppings include mustard, relish, onions, cheese and chili.
What, no coleslaw?
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Old 12-27-2019, 01:34 PM   #91
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..."And yes, smaller Super Cs with gas engines have been built in the past, and expect they will make a comeback due to lower cost and growing anti-diesel sentiments'....


Not true...the Division Bell between a C Class and the "new" Super C is the diesel 500 Series chassis, be it Ford F550, Ram 5500, etc. There's never been a MH designated "Super C" before the diesel setup.
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Old 12-27-2019, 02:18 PM   #92
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Diesel isn't going anywhere for long time
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Old 12-27-2019, 03:13 PM   #93
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..."And yes, smaller Super Cs with gas engines have been built in the past, and expect they will make a comeback due to lower cost and growing anti-diesel sentiments'....


Not true...the Division Bell between a C Class and the "new" Super C is the diesel 500 Series chassis, be it Ford F550, Ram 5500, etc. There's never been a MH designated "Super C" before the diesel setup.

It’s not worth arguing semantics.

Motorhomes built on Kodiak chassis with both diesel and Chevy 8100 big block gas V8s were called SuperCs by their manufacturers.

At the other extreme, there are some who argue that F-550 motorhomes are not real Super Cs. They claim it has to be a Freightliner or equivalent Class 6 or larger truck.

Personally, I’d consider the size more than whether it runs on gas or diesel. Either way it’s just a label and not that significant to me as long as we know what we are referring to.
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Old 12-27-2019, 03:56 PM   #94
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Interesting read. Thor is not included and could be because they are below 19.5K GVWR (Magnitude and Omni are only 19K). The Dynamax Isata 5 on the Ram 5500 is 19.5k GVWR.

Ford has the F-550 as a max 19.5K GVWR not sure why Thor lists them at 19K.

https://rv-pro.com/features/battle-super-c-s
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