I've pre-reserved my ALL ELECTRIC Ford F150...

[Elite Washington]

Originally Posted by halfprice

My neighbor just got a hybrid rubicon. It only gets 30 mile per charge. But that enough to go to work where he haS free charging

It's pretty nice

Jerry

That would work for her she drives about 4 miles a day at best and that’s only 15 days a month. She is an RN in the Emergency room. I am not sure if I want her to know that though because that’s 50k to spend.

[Bob Nodine]

Me thinks we had better start building some more nuclear power plants. Everybody starts plugging in all these electric vehicles in their garage it is going to put a load on the

Bob

[TurnerFam]

as the original poster, I POSTED HERE to get the 'party' started about the validity of the new 'electric' vehicles coming on the scene, and especially how THIS TRUCK could impact the 'camping' world- as in TOWING a camper, not having the truck TOWED, though both are part of the overall conversation.
My son owns a Nissan Leaf ALL BATTERY car, and I OWN a Nissan Leaf, ALL BATTERY car, so both of us are interested in the outcome of how a ALL BATTERY TRUCK platform might impact the ability for camping to be 'changed' by the battery bank that the 'tow vehicle' now will have available, such as when boondocking, off-gridding, parking lot overnighting, and the like.
If you can simply PLUG your camper into your TOW VEHICLE for power, that's a game changer. No more generator. More power than you need, even for your HOME.

But, there's also the reality of the 'real world', such as will campgrounds and rv parks 'allow' you to plug in your electric vehicle to recharge? Will they prohibit it since now they may be experiencing more electric costs, etc?
There's also the fact of 'charging' the all battery vehicle while traveling. Most any 'charge point' DC fast charger location are not designed for a 30-50' long 'train' of TOW TRUCK and CAMPER pull up next to, and most are 'pull in' type set ups. While the owner have to then disconnect the trailer/camper in order to then charge the truck?

Regardless, all this 'new' battery power will certainly create many new OPTIONS for camping, ESPECIALLY those who have always dreamed of actually simply driving to a destination and parking there overnight, or for days, without the need for a generator, or even SOLAR power.
....well, at least as long as there is enough battery power to get back to a charge point to recharge!

The electric charging infrastructure in America is yet to prove out the real-world ability for most anyone to 'feel' as though they can trust buying a battery-powered car - most don't trust the fact that 'charging' will be something they can readily and easily have at hand, like the advent of a gas station on almost every corner. Regardless of whether the president or Elon Musk or Ford 'wants' America to go 'battery-powered', the ability to CHARGE has to be the PRIMARY focus, not the ability to simply produce the cars.
If every gas station, large or small, had a simple level 2 240v 'interim' charger, at least for 'emergency' charging, then we'd start to see more folks take to the 'electric car'.
If every Walmart had a bevy of charging options out on the far end of each of their HUGE open parking lots, we'd also start to see many more folks take to the battery-powered vehicle.
Until then, it's simply too early for most to take it seriously.

If I can buy this 'all battery' truck and go camping for several days, without the need to 'have' to be at a campground, or 'have' to have a generator, or 'have' to have solar power, then fantastic. If I can also use it every day to go to work, 15-20 miles for a commute, and simply plug into my house when at home, I'll be happy. If I can use this 'electric' truck to go to the hardware store and bring back plywood, hardware, and stuff for the house, and even store all the 'groceries' in the front 'bonnet' during the rain on the ride back, I'll be happy. If I can take this 'truck' to my son's house he's building and have 120v power from it to run drills and power saws and tools to help him, until he gets his electricity brought in, I'll be happy. In the end, though, I want to also know, and feel assured, that I can also TRAVEL to see my son, over 300 miles away, and have CHARGING OPTIONS along the way, and not just a SINGLE option, or location, but MANY options.

Now, whether these vehicles can to 'towed' 4-down, or even on a tow-dolly, is still unknown, but, as others have mentioned, if the answer is that there is some capability for the vehicle to actually 'regen' while it's being towed, even better.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by TurnerFam

as the original poster, I POSTED HERE to get the 'party' started about the validity of the new 'electric' vehicles coming on the scene, and especially how THIS TRUCK could impact the 'camping' world- as in TOWING a camper, not having the truck TOWED, though both are part of the overall conversation.
My son owns a Nissan Leaf ALL BATTERY car, and I OWN a Nissan Leaf, ALL BATTERY car, so both of us are interested in the outcome of how a ALL BATTERY TRUCK platform might impact the ability for camping to be 'changed' by the battery bank that the 'tow vehicle' now will have available, such as when boondocking, off-gridding, parking lot overnighting, and the like.
If you can simply PLUG your camper into your TOW VEHICLE for power, that's a game changer. No more generator. More power than you need, even for your HOME.

But, there's also the reality of the 'real world', such as will campgrounds and rv parks 'allow' you to plug in your electric vehicle to recharge? Will they prohibit it since now they may be experiencing more electric costs, etc?
There's also the fact of 'charging' the all battery vehicle while traveling. Most any 'charge point' DC fast charger location are not designed for a 30-50' long 'train' of TOW TRUCK and CAMPER pull up next to, and most are 'pull in' type set ups. While the owner have to then disconnect the trailer/camper in order to then charge the truck?

Regardless, all this 'new' battery power will certainly create many new OPTIONS for camping, ESPECIALLY those who have always dreamed of actually simply driving to a destination and parking there overnight, or for days, without the need for a generator, or even SOLAR power.
....well, at least as long as there is enough battery power to get back to a charge point to recharge!

The electric charging infrastructure in America is yet to prove out the real-world ability for most anyone to 'feel' as though they can trust buying a battery-powered car - most don't trust the fact that 'charging' will be something they can readily and easily have at hand, like the advent of a gas station on almost every corner. Regardless of whether the president or Elon Musk or Ford 'wants' America to go 'battery-powered', the ability to CHARGE has to be the PRIMARY focus, not the ability to simply produce the cars.
If every gas station, large or small, had a simple level 2 240v 'interim' charger, at least for 'emergency' charging, then we'd start to see more folks take to the 'electric car'.
If every Walmart had a bevy of charging options out on the far end of each of their HUGE open parking lots, we'd also start to see many more folks take to the battery-powered vehicle.
Until then, it's simply too early for most to take it seriously.

If I can buy this 'all battery' truck and go camping for several days, without the need to 'have' to be at a campground, or 'have' to have a generator, or 'have' to have solar power, then fantastic. If I can also use it every day to go to work, 15-20 miles for a commute, and simply plug into my house when at home, I'll be happy. If I can use this 'electric' truck to go to the hardware store and bring back plywood, hardware, and stuff for the house, and even store all the 'groceries' in the front 'bonnet' during the rain on the ride back, I'll be happy. If I can take this 'truck' to my son's house he's building and have 120v power from it to run drills and power saws and tools to help him, until he gets his electricity brought in, I'll be happy. In the end, though, I want to also know, and feel assured, that I can also TRAVEL to see my son, over 300 miles away, and have CHARGING OPTIONS along the way, and not just a SINGLE option, or location, but MANY options.

Now, whether these vehicles can to 'towed' 4-down, or even on a tow-dolly, is still unknown, but, as others have mentioned, if the answer is that there is some capability for the vehicle to actually 'regen' while it's being towed, even better.

Well as far as road tripping: There are several EVs out there that have accomplished that (Ford's own Mach-E not withstanding). The DCFC network is expanding rather rapidly (even faster than Superchargers at this point). Of course there are DCFC "ghost towns" (UP of Michigan, West Virginia, North Dakota, etc.--just check https://www.plugshare.com/ ).

The "plug in and charge" technology has got a rough start to date (many Mach-E owner's have had issues with that). However, if you start the charge session with the app prior to plugging in it can be much more successful and painless (much like swiping a credit card at the pump prior to pumping). For me, so far, I haven't had any issues with plug in and charge.

As for campgrounds not allowing charging: To date I have yet to have a campground complain (in fact, over memorial day weekend hopefully we'll be taking the Mach-E on a camping trip. The campground better let us charge as there are no DCFC's close enough to the campground.). Of course at this point in time BEVs are still the exception, as the market share increases there will be more people wanting to charge at a campground (also the F-150's battery is about 2x the size of the Mach-E--which is why they are selling the 80amp charger to go with it). (Been plugging in at campgrounds since 2013.) My guess is that they will start charging an extra fee much like many used to charge an A/C fee.

I also have a low current (20amp) EVSE that I use at campgrounds so that I'm not loading down the system as much as I could (the Mach-E and Lightning comes with a 32 amp EVSE with a 14-50 plug perfect for campground use).

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by Bob Nodine

Me thinks we had better start building some more nuclear power plants. Everybody starts plugging in all these electric vehicles in their garage it is going to put a load on the

Bob

Yup!

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Bob Nodine

Me thinks we had better start building some more nuclear power plants. Everybody starts plugging in all these electric vehicles in their garage it is going to put a load on the

Bob

That is a legitimate concern, but one I feel can be addressed over the years since the switch to electric vehicles will require time. As Jamie has stated previously, existing gasoline cars won’t go away immediately.

What concerns me more by far is how vulnerable we are making our society, and not by the dependence on electric “power” itself, but through access to external vehicle communications. And that’s not limited to electric vehicles, although BEVs are accelerating the process as we move closer to autonomous transportation.

We have know that rogue hackers can and will eventually get into lots of stuff they shouldn’t, including fuel pipelines that shut down half the country, so what will happen if a hostile country with even greater capabilities hacks communications to vehicles and shuts them down, run them into buildings, or simply make them undriveable? In time of war if our enemies can shut down transportation, they won’t have to invade because we’ll starve to death, right after running out of toilet paper.

Limited electric power from grid should self-correct in that people will stop (or slow) buying electric vehicles if electricity becomes unreliable or too expensive, but a cyber attack decapitating transportation may come some day without warning.

[Bob Denman]

If you live your life looking for "gremlins": you're bound to walk headlong into a tree...
I
They're not building anything significant right now, and we need to start increasing our power producing capacity.
While upgrading the infrastructure: they should consider increase the interconnectivity of the powergrid, and improve the ability to isolate "bad" sections, and re-route around them.
Otherwise: this will all sneak up on us, and you'll start seeing country-wide brown-outs...

[Muggs]

Lots of things to be addressed moving toward electric vehicles:

1) Power. What needs to be expanded/upgraded.
2) Safety. A huge battery can be a mobile wrecking ball at 70 MPH surrounded by light weight vehicle.
3) Security. Hackers can create chaos in a not fully intergrated system. Imagine opertunities when fully intergrated. Vehicles could be ground level drones.

Hopefully they will be looking at complete package.

[lwmcguire]

Originally Posted by TurnerFam

as the original poster, I POSTED HERE to get the 'party' started about the validity of the new 'electric' vehicles coming on the scene, and especially how THIS TRUCK could impact the 'camping' world- as in TOWING a camper, not having the truck TOWED, though both are part of the overall conversation.
My son owns a Nissan Leaf ALL BATTERY car, and I OWN a Nissan Leaf, ALL BATTERY car, so both of us are interested in the outcome of how a ALL BATTERY TRUCK platform might impact the ability for camping to be 'changed' by the battery bank that the 'tow vehicle' now will have available, such as when boondocking, off-gridding, parking lot overnighting, and the like.
If you can simply PLUG your camper into your TOW VEHICLE for power, that's a game changer. No more generator. More power than you need, even for your HOME.

But, there's also the reality of the 'real world', such as will campgrounds and rv parks 'allow' you to plug in your electric vehicle to recharge? Will they prohibit it since now they may be experiencing more electric costs, etc?
There's also the fact of 'charging' the all battery vehicle while traveling. Most any 'charge point' DC fast charger location are not designed for a 30-50' long 'train' of TOW TRUCK and CAMPER pull up next to, and most are 'pull in' type set ups. While the owner have to then disconnect the trailer/camper in order to then charge the truck?

Regardless, all this 'new' battery power will certainly create many new OPTIONS for camping, ESPECIALLY those who have always dreamed of actually simply driving to a destination and parking there overnight, or for days, without the need for a generator, or even SOLAR power.
....well, at least as long as there is enough battery power to get back to a charge point to recharge!

The electric charging infrastructure in America is yet to prove out the real-world ability for most anyone to 'feel' as though they can trust buying a battery-powered car - most don't trust the fact that 'charging' will be something they can readily and easily have at hand, like the advent of a gas station on almost every corner. Regardless of whether the president or Elon Musk or Ford 'wants' America to go 'battery-powered', the ability to CHARGE has to be the PRIMARY focus, not the ability to simply produce the cars.
If every gas station, large or small, had a simple level 2 240v 'interim' charger, at least for 'emergency' charging, then we'd start to see more folks take to the 'electric car'.
If every Walmart had a bevy of charging options out on the far end of each of their HUGE open parking lots, we'd also start to see many more folks take to the battery-powered vehicle.
Until then, it's simply too early for most to take it seriously.

If I can buy this 'all battery' truck and go camping for several days, without the need to 'have' to be at a campground, or 'have' to have a generator, or 'have' to have solar power, then fantastic. If I can also use it every day to go to work, 15-20 miles for a commute, and simply plug into my house when at home, I'll be happy. If I can use this 'electric' truck to go to the hardware store and bring back plywood, hardware, and stuff for the house, and even store all the 'groceries' in the front 'bonnet' during the rain on the ride back, I'll be happy. If I can take this 'truck' to my son's house he's building and have 120v power from it to run drills and power saws and tools to help him, until he gets his electricity brought in, I'll be happy. In the end, though, I want to also know, and feel assured, that I can also TRAVEL to see my son, over 300 miles away, and have CHARGING OPTIONS along the way, and not just a SINGLE option, or location, but MANY options.

Now, whether these vehicles can to 'towed' 4-down, or even on a tow-dolly, is still unknown, but, as others have mentioned, if the answer is that there is some capability for the vehicle to actually 'regen' while it's being towed, even better.

We have stayed in three camp grounds this year that have added electric meters over the winter.

That is going to be the trend and most will have 50 amp which will have to be shared with the EV until they start adding dedicated charging stations at some point

[lwmcguire]

Originally Posted by lwmcguire

We have stayed in three camp grounds this year that have added electric meters over the winter.

That is going to be the trend and most will have 50 amp which will have to be shared with the EV until they start adding dedicated charging stations at some point

Interesting read and I agree with everything but the recharge while being towed

The only way that would make any energy sense if is it had a way of sensing the compression brake and charged only then while adding to the braking, probably not going to happen

Otherwise it is like pulling a diesel generator along instead of finding a charging station

Our Wal-Mart does have the high speed charging stations way out there but I haven's seen many. What I love about it is the fact they start charging you for leaving it plugged in after it has finalized. You have 10 minutes and then it charges you by the minute for blocking the charging station

[Pete'sMH]

Interesting and exciting thread. It’s going to be a different world when they get this stuff mastered. I just read a news article that theorized the effect of towing on the expected range of this truck. It concluded that towing a maximum load 10,000lb camper would reduce the range by as much as 50%. Doing so in the winter perhaps by another 50%. If that is true you could be looking at a useful range of well under 100 miles. I couldn’t live with that...

[Bob Denman]

It kind of makes the CyberTruck's range of 500 miles (Tri-motor version); seem worthwhile..

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Pete'sMH

Interesting and exciting thread. It’s going to be a different world when they get this stuff mastered. I just read a news article that theorized the effect of towing on the expected range of this truck. It concluded that towing a maximum load 10,000lb camper would reduce the range by as much as 50%. Doing so in the winter perhaps by another 50%. If that is true you could be looking at a useful range of well under 100 miles. I couldn’t live with that...

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

It kind of makes the CyberTruck's range of 500 miles (Tri-motor version); seem worthwhile..

Tesla over estimates their range. We'll see if the CyberTruck can get 500 miles out of it.

Yeah towing with the Model X reduces its range around 50%. I've been hoping Ford kind of cracked that nut a little so they don't get the range hit (not sure how). At any rate Ford has underestimated their BEV range (well ok at the moment there is only one: The Mach-E).

Range tests: https://insideevs.com/news/497559/ep...-rating-value/

Mach-E: https://insideevs.com/reviews/502506...ph-range-test/

[TurnerFam]

Originally Posted by lwmcguire

"The only way that would make any energy sense if is it had a way of sensing the compression brake and charged only then while adding to the braking..."

no, Leafs and other battery-powered vehicles don't require the brakes to be engaged to have a 'regeneration' recharge to the battery bank. Just letting off the 'gas' pedal starts the process.
Now, the regen 'level' can be different depending on your vehicle, it's regen process, and whether you're also adding another level of regeneration, such as our 'B' gear in our 2015 Leaf.
In ours, we have a simply regen that is automatically built in, anytime you take your foot off the 'gas', or going downhill and the regen senses that it's exceeding the cruise control speed. That's kind of like Level '1'.
Then there's the 'eco' mode, which brings in a little more regen, and the eco mode stays on after each usage, you don't have to do anything special to have it stay engaged all the time.
Then, lastly, there's the 'B' mode, which is engaged by simply putting the 'gear' into 'D'(drive'), again. This simply tells the system to engage the regen with the most effect whenever coming off the 'gas' pedal, and when pushing the brake, of course.

So, in essence, if towing a battery-powered vehicle like this, I would think that you could press the ON button, to power on the vehicle, put the vehicle in 'D' gear, as if you were driving it, and then tow it. While towing, the regen, in the most basic mode, would then be regen/recharging the batteries while the wheels are turning, which is all that is happening when you are driving it.

Does the car know 'when' it is fully charged? Yes, of course. Matter of fact, when you are fully charged, such as overnight at home, and you then leave your driveway and go 'downhill', the car already knows it's already fully charged, and even in 'B' regen mode, it will NOT continue to regen - it's already fully charged. It is a smart car.

This might make sense, although I would suspect that the factories are not quite there in making this an 'official' option for those wanting to tow their battery-powered vehicle. There may be other 'things' at work here, but after owning TWO leafs, and using them in almost every sort of capacity, whether charging at home, charging at DC chargers, short trips, or very LONG trips, and a LOT of regen happening while coming off the 'gas' pedal, while braking, or simply while going 'downhill', I'm not sure I can come up with any 'reasons' that it's not feasible. There is no moving transmission, matter of fact, no transmission at all. There is no oil, fluids, or even a radiator. It's simply an electric 'motor', turning wheels, directly.

[Lt Keefer]

Interesting read but our nation has a weak electric grid that can barely support the current demand for heating/cooling, lighting and industrial power. We see it all the time with brown outs and rolling black outs. We need to let the grid catch up but with all of the hoops electric suppliers have to go through to bring on new generating stations is now the time for all of us to convert to electric vehicles? Specially ones that are used for recreation.

Electric vehicles have been around for quite some time and even with government tax incentives and high fuel costs the average consumer has no desire to purchase them. Sure, people with high incomes can afford them, but the folks that work at entry level or minimum wage sure can't afford them. Those folks buy pre-owned autos with IC engines. I also don't see any electric fleet vehicles in my area. The home health care people I see are all in little IC cars as are all the utility company trucks and their meter readers. Shoot, even the electric company drives traditional vehicles, not electric.

I don't have a crystal ball but I do read the paper and world governments are going to force us into electric vehicles whether we want them or not so we have to improve what's out there. I just hope I'm in the retirement home by then.

[TurnerFam]

we probably agree on more than not, but "but the folks that work at entry level or minimum wage sure can't afford them. Those folks buy pre-owned autos with IC engines" is probably just supposition, as I see PLENTY of 'entry level or minimum wage' job holders driving much more expensive vehicles than I do - and I don't work cheap. But, I'll also add that BOTH of our 2014/2015 Nissan LEAFS were LESS than the typical 'used' car on the market. And, given that you don't have 'oil changes' and you don't have 'radiators' and you don't have 'engines'...you'll also have a lot LESS to worry about, maintenance wise, for many, many, many years. If your home has 240v service, as most do, you have little cost in setting up your own 'fueling station', where you'll very seldom again need to 'stop' at any others.

yes, the infrastructure is going to be difficult to move 'most' folks to really consider a BATTERY car, whether or not it's the same price as a gas one. If the majority doesn't 'trust' the charging infrastructure, then it's not going to happen nearly as 'quickly' as anyone would think, or wish. Also, since there's a certain trade off between 'charging'(using electricity), and no longer needing a stop at a gas station, there will be less electrical needs by fueling station pumps, too. This is not by any means going to be a 'sudden' pull on our electrical 'grid', it's just not going to happen that fast, even in the best of scenarios. No one is going to suddenly 'get rid' of their gas vehicle simply because 'new' battery cars are now available... but, they may start to consider it more in the future as they see others, their neighbors, co-workers, etc start to use them, and start to see that it's not that 'foreign' to consider.

[Dsimes]

Congrats on reserving one! My 09 F250 Super Duty is still in great shape with only 43K on the clock so not in the market to replace it yet but I am very interested in the F150 Lightning though. Definitely like it better than the other offerings out there.

The lightning would fit nicely beside our Chevy Bolt in the garage and they can take turns using the level 2 charger we have.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Dsimes

Congrats on reserving one! My 09 F250 Super Duty is still in great shape with only 43K on the clock so not in the market to replace it yet but I am very interested in the F150 Lightning though. Definitely like it better than the other offerings out there.

The lightning would fit nicely beside our Chevy Bolt in the garage and they can take turns using the level 2 charger we have.

FYI: The Lightning has at least 3x the battery size of your Bolt. Thus it will take 3x the time to charge from empty to full that it does for your Bolt (this is why Ford is also selling an 80 amp EVSE to go with the Lightning).

[Bob Nodine]

On security, my two cents. We need to get over this desire to access everything from the internet and update software on a whim.

Mission critical industries like the power grid or a fuel pipeline should be on a private network and never connected to the internet. If they can run pipelines and power lines for thousands of miles they can run fiber communications along side it.

All safety related control equipment like in your car or an airplane or a nuclear power plant should not have managed memory and software updates should only be possible by direct connection. This is a hard pill to swallow because as programmers we have become accustom to others doing all the low level work and we just need to click on icons, etc.

Bob

[lwmcguire]

Originally Posted by TurnerFam

no, Leafs and other battery-powered vehicles don't require the brakes to be engaged to have a 'regeneration' recharge to the battery bank. Just letting off the 'gas' pedal starts the process.
Now, the regen 'level' can be different depending on your vehicle, it's regen process, and whether you're also adding another level of regeneration, such as our 'B' gear in our 2015 Leaf.
In ours, we have a simply regen that is automatically built in, anytime you take your foot off the 'gas', or going downhill and the regen senses that it's exceeding the cruise control speed. That's kind of like Level '1'.
Then there's the 'eco' mode, which brings in a little more regen, and the eco mode stays on after each usage, you don't have to do anything special to have it stay engaged all the time.
Then, lastly, there's the 'B' mode, which is engaged by simply putting the 'gear' into 'D'(drive'), again. This simply tells the system to engage the regen with the most effect whenever coming off the 'gas' pedal, and when pushing the brake, of course.

So, in essence, if towing a battery-powered vehicle like this, I would think that you could press the ON button, to power on the vehicle, put the vehicle in 'D' gear, as if you were driving it, and then tow it. While towing, the regen, in the most basic mode, would then be regen/recharging the batteries while the wheels are turning, which is all that is happening when you are driving it.

Does the car know 'when' it is fully charged? Yes, of course. Matter of fact, when you are fully charged, such as overnight at home, and you then leave your driveway and go 'downhill', the car already knows it's already fully charged, and even in 'B' regen mode, it will NOT continue to regen - it's already fully charged. It is a smart car.

This might make sense, although I would suspect that the factories are not quite there in making this an 'official' option for those wanting to tow their battery-powered vehicle. There may be other 'things' at work here, but after owning TWO leafs, and using them in almost every sort of capacity, whether charging at home, charging at DC chargers, short trips, or very LONG trips, and a LOT of regen happening while coming off the 'gas' pedal, while braking, or simply while going 'downhill', I'm not sure I can come up with any 'reasons' that it's not feasible. There is no moving transmission, matter of fact, no transmission at all. There is no oil, fluids, or even a radiator. It's simply an electric 'motor', turning wheels, directly.

Great overview and I have had a couple EV's starting with the infamous Volt. My point is you create a drag and that drag is solve by fossil fuel from the tow vehicle. Breaking or intentional slowing is the only time you would have a positive energy input, otherwise it is not feasible