Large slideout ?s: 1.Is this normal? 2.Is this the correct order?

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

I am no Judge, but this looks like Kase Klosed to me

Not Always....
BMW says transmission fluid don't need to be changed because "it is for the life of the vehicle..."

So apparently the case is closed, right????

Except that BMW understands "life of the vehicle" as being 100K miles....

You don't need to lubricate anything because it is very rare that even w/o maintenance something will fail before the warranty is over but after warranty is over....

[Judge]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Since some coaches don't operate slides with engine running, can those coaches also operate the slide if genny is runny? Point is I never operate on my batteries alone although I know I could.

Question: Is it possible to reconfigure the controller or wiring from chassis such that controller will ONLTY OPERATE period if Parking Brake is set? I find it odd that slide cannot be extended with engine running.

Hey DK!

The general rule of thumb….. and it is far from consistent with Thor…. is:

- Coaches with only a small slide use 300:1 motors and the slide can be moved without the engine running or being plugged into shore power because there isn’t as much voltage drop and current demand on the house batteries. This assumes the house batteries are in good health.

- Coaches with large, heavy slides use 500:1 motors when have a much larger power demand. These coaches usually have a BIM or BIRD and require the engine to be running so the alternator can provide a boost of power to the house batteries while the motors are operating. Plugging in the coach will also provide a boost but the key needs to be in the run position so the interlock relay allows the operation.


The slide controller does have a low voltage sensor whether it is a 300:1 or 500:1 motor. If the sensor detects there isnt enough voltage to reliably operate the motors, it will trigger another interlock to prevent the motors from moving until the voltage reaches a nominal level.

As far as lubricantion goes…. any sealed moving part doesn’t required librication. Open moving parts generally do…. unless lubrication allows for dirt intrusion, which could be worse for the moving parts than no lubricant.

In the case of Schwintek, they have determined the lubricating can do more harm than good as many general purpose lubricants invite dirt build-up. That may mean parts have a shorter useful lifespan without lubrication but that is better than premature failure from build up of dirt and debris.

Running a genny or plugging into shore power allows the house batteries to be boosted so itnis a fair point above that can help diagnose bad house batteries.

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Since some coaches don't operate slides with engine running, can those coaches also operate the slide if genny is runny? Point is I never operate on my batteries alone although I know I could.

Question: Is it possible to reconfigure the controller or wiring from chassis such that controller will ONLTY OPERATE period if Parking Brake is set? I find it odd that slide cannot be extended with engine running.

The slide's controller always sends power to the motors to lock the brake; otherwise, the slides would drift when traveling. What the slide's ignition inhibit does is to remove direction logic power. If you find the inhibit, you can move it from the ignition to the parking brake where the jacks inhibit is located. For plant 750 coach that logic circuit is on the circuit and relay board down by the driver's left foot. Where Winnie hides, it not a clue.

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by Judge

Hey DK!

The general rule of thumb….. and it is far from consistent with Thor…. is:

- Coaches with only a small slide use 300:1 motors and the slide can be moved without the engine running or being plugged into shore power because there isn’t as much voltage drop and current demand on the house batteries. This assumes the house batteries are in good health.

- Coaches with large, heavy slides use 500:1 motors when have a much larger power demand. These coaches usually have a BIM or BIRD and require the engine to be running so the alternator can provide a boost of power to the house batteries while the motors are operating. Plugging in the coach will also provide a boost but the key needs to be in the run position so the interlock relay allows the operation.


The slide controller does have a low voltage sensor whether it is a 300:1 or 500:1 motor. If the sensor detects there isnt enough voltage to reliably operate the motors, it will trigger another interlock to prevent the motors from moving until the voltage reaches a nominal level.

As far as lubricantion goes…. any sealed moving part doesn’t required librication. Open moving parts generally do…. unless lubrication allows for dirt intrusion, which could be worse for the moving parts than no lubricant.

In the case of Schwintek, they have determined the lubricating can do more harm than good as many general purpose lubricants invite dirt build-up. That may mean parts have a shorter useful lifespan without lubrication but that is better than premature failure from build up of dirt and debris.

Running a genny or plugging into shore power allows the house batteries to be boosted so itnis a fair point above that can help diagnose bad house batteries.

Excellent synopsis

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Beau388

The slide's controller always sends power to the motors to lock the brake; otherwise, the slides would drift when traveling. What the slide's ignition inhibit does is to remove direction logic power. If you find the inhibit, you can move it from the ignition to the parking brake where the jacks inhibit is located. For plant 750 coach that logic circuit is on the circuit and relay board down by the driver's left foot. Where Winnie hides, it not a clue.

That is similar to 12vdc always being on / sent to the Kwikee steps to tell the Controller to stay extended when door is shut, but if you turn the Switch to On it actually cuts the 12vdc power to the controller and when door is shut it retracts.

As far as parking brake safety feature, I was asking for perspective of statement made earlier that they could NOT extend slide with engine running. In my WBGO it is factory set to extend with engine running and part of the manual of how to operate. Periodically my AGS will also force me to turn the ignition key on to verify that I didn't just leave the RV in AGS mode. Technology is great, especially for those like yourself that truly understand how it works. Thanks.

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

That is similar to 12vdc always being on / sent to the Kwikee steps to tell the Controller to stay extended when door is shut, but if you turn the Switch to On it actually cuts the 12vdc power to the controller and when door is shut it retracts.

As far as parking brake safety feature, I was asking for perspective of statement made earlier that they could NOT extend slide with engine running. In my WBGO it is factory set to extend with engine running and part of the manual of how to operate. Periodically my AGS will also force me to turn the ignition key on to verify that I didn't just leave the RV in AGS mode. Technology is great, especially for those like yourself that truly understand how it works. Thanks.

Since I seldom dry camp and my slides are all on the driver's side, I hookup before extending the slides; thus, shore power is available. A lot more amps available from the 75 amp converter than from the engine's alternator at idle. Since hook-ups are on the side with the slides, I always use the Rapid Camp to extend the slides. Before going out, I lock the cats in the bathroom just because they are cats.

[Judge]

There is one thing that may be a misnomer based on my research... and I could be wrong... or maybe it was an option with older LCI slide-out systems.

There is no mention of an "electric motor brake" in any of the LCI / Schwintek documentation that I was given by LCI Support. I have the Owners, Troubleshooting, Service and Rebuild Manuals and I have been through them all several times.

If the slide won't retract, the only way LCI says to move the slide (if the Electronic Override Procedure at the Controller won't work), is to disengage the motors from the bearing blocks by removing the set screw and lifting the motor upwards and then pushing the slide in.

There is some information out there where people say you can remove the motor wiring harness from the Controller for each motor and then push the slide in with a few people because that releases the "electric brake." This is not mentioned in any of the LCI documentation.

I have also done the following tests to confirm there does not appear to be an electric brake that holds the slide in place:

- I used my meter to measure the current in the 30A motor circuit when the slide was idle and there was no current reading on my meter. I would suspect some small amount of current of the motor was intentionally keeping the slide against the wall.

- I put a 500:1 motor in a vice and then put a wrench with a 3 foot pipe on the end and I could not budge the motor. The gear reduction is so strong you can not spin the motor without power. I have not tried this with a 300:1 motor but I am guessing it would be nearly impossible to spin the 300:1 motor without power as well.

I just went through the LCI documentation again and I still see no reference to an electronic motor brake or removing the motor wiring harnesses to push the slide in because the brake would theoretically be disabled.

LCI lists the Electronic Override as the first step for trying to retract a slide that won't move in normally and then they list disengaging the motors from the bearing blocks as the last resort.

Again... maybe older versions of the LCI slide-out had an electric brake but the current ones appear not to have this feature.... and based on not being able to spin a 500:1 motor by hand, I could see where it would not be necessary.

When I was reviewing the LCI documentation just now, I did find this blurb about low voltage that is interesting. It says the motors can operate on as little as 8V but at the lower voltage the current draw is higher (which is not surprising).

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Beau388

Since I seldom dry camp and my slides are all on the driver's side, I hookup before extending the slides; thus, shore power is available. A lot more amps available from the 75 amp converter than from the engine's alternator at idle. Since hook-ups are on the side with the slides, I always use the Rapid Camp to extend the slides. Before going out, I lock the cats in the bathroom just because they are cats.

Since you are an Engineering guy, you might get a smirk of a smile out of this.

* Unless it is really hot, I dry camp at campsites sometimes even if I have power. No need to pull out the shore power cord unless I really need it.

* I have one slide and it is driver side full wall

* Typically when I do hook up to shore power at campsite pedestal it goes like this. Note: I do this every time for my self amusement because I have the technology to actually do it this way
1. Drive up to site with engine running, ACs on, and generator running
2. Park and get confirm spot I like (everything still running)
3. Push Auto Level button ( go get beer)
4. When finished I go outside, pull shorepower cord, test pedestal with Southwire device and then plug in (everything still running)
5. My AGS will detect Shorepower and say genny is not needed and shut it down.
6. My DW knows when Genny has stopped she can kill the engine
7. I come back inside with all clear on the outside while my wife has all clear on inside and Slide goes out, but key is still in ignition that is not running, no genny, but shorepower.
8. I then verify the AGS is in Auto Mode (safety feature as may have defaulted to Manual Mode after a shutdown) So theoretically; if I had Cats or a dog for that matter (which I don't); but if I did; and camp power is lost for any reason my genny fires up to keep the ACs running

Another contrary to convention wisdom, I doubt if I ever go to a campsite with running my genny at least 2 hours for something. To me it is akin to going camping on a nice lake and never at least trying to fish

May I ask what is Rapid Camp? I think I can guess by what it implies, but I have never heard of, nor do I know what it is or does to be called Rapid Camp.

[Beau388]

Actually there are two versions of LCIs "Rapid Camp" Simply is is a hand held RF remote control that allows all major functions of setting up camp to be controlled remotely. Since my coach is a cheapie, I have the simple version that controls the slides, generator, awning, and exterior lights. Thor MC switch to the FireFly Integration Systems in the later coaches.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Beau388

Actually there are two versions of LCIs "Rapid Camp" Simply is is a hand held RF remote control that allows all major functions of setting up camp to be controlled remotely. Since my coach is a cheapie, I have the simple version that controls the slides, generator, awning, and exterior lights. Thor MC switch to the FireFly Integration Systems in the later coaches.

Ahhh Firely

That was included with the 2019 Windsports / Hurricanes I was looking at. I thought it was awesome as it had remotes that came off the wall if I recall. Kinda of cool to be sitting outdoors and push button for awning to extend /retract. But then again there was a lot of people complaining back then on reliability type issues and the costs to upgrade etc, kind of dampened my excitement on Firefly because if it went bad it control basically the entire coach.

So if Rapid Camp is similar system, I have better visual.

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by Judge

There is one thing that may be a misnomer based on my research... and I could be wrong... or maybe it was an option with older LCI slide-out systems.

There is no mention of an "electric motor brake" in any of the LCI / Schwintek documentation that I was given by LCI Support. I have the Owners, Troubleshooting, Service and Rebuild Manuals and I have been through them all several times. [snip]
.

Well I took the MHSRV delivery tech at his word when I asked why the slide clamp was included in my Thor MC bag. He said it was to be used if the motor brake on the slides failed; that sounded logical and I never question it.
Just now, out to the coach crawl under the bed end and open the PPS power center, remove the 30 amp fuse and bridge the contacts with a probe. The light came on and the buzzer sounded, but all did seem to act like I thought it would. Up to the front of the coach and turn the ignition on. Maybe the brake is activated only when the slide is closed and the ignition on? Back under the bed; the light is still on with the buzzer. Rummage through the electrical repair box and find a digital multi-meter with a 10 amp DC setting. It reads 0.06 amps. Not what I was expecting. Then I notice the blown fuse light is on while I am doing the test, so I am reading the amperage to power the LED bad fuse indicator.
So I conclusively proved to me there is no slide motor brake that is electrically applied. Now there may be a friction brake applied when there is no current to the motor, but I doubt LCI would spend the money to make a unique motor for the slides.
Thanks for your search for the info. I figured you were right, but being an aero engineer, I had to prove to myself there was no slide motor electrical brake. I highly value your opinions and observations.

[smitty1020]

We had the same problem with our 29M. The slide was not installed properly at the factory to begin with. So, 4,100.00 dollars later it works like a charm;

[rapinmansfield]

I know you have a ton of reply,
I have a 24fe Fredom Elite with stabilizers.
I put the drivers idea on blocks lower the stabilizers and then extend slide.
Make sure you extend and hold button till all sound stops.
Do the same when retracting.
Have been doing this for 3 years with no I ssues.

[Scubawise]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

Sequence:
1 - Park the rig
2 - Have it level using the leveling jacks.
3 - Have the engine and/or generator and/or power cord on/connected
4 - put the slide out

NEVER MOVE THE SLIDE OUT IF THE MH IS NOT LEVEL BY THE LEVELING JACKS


On the three traxx system, lubricate the U channels on the racks with a dry lube lubricant every other trip.

If after you have level the MH with the leveling jacks the slide is still able to sink that side down, you are in a too soft ground area - move to another place or put something under the jacks so they will not sink...

Well said thx

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Beau388

Well I took the MHSRV delivery tech at his word when I asked why the slide clamp was included in my Thor MC bag. He said it was to be used if the motor brake on the slides failed; that sounded logical and I never question it.
Just now, out to the coach crawl under the bed end and open the PPS power center, remove the 30 amp fuse and bridge the contacts with a probe. The light came on and the buzzer sounded, but all did seem to act like I thought it would. Up to the front of the coach and turn the ignition on. Maybe the brake is activated only when the slide is closed and the ignition on? Back under the bed; the light is still on with the buzzer. Rummage through the electrical repair box and find a digital multi-meter with a 10 amp DC setting. It reads 0.06 amps. Not what I was expecting. Then I notice the blown fuse light is on while I am doing the test, so I am reading the amperage to power the LED bad fuse indicator.
So I conclusively proved to me there is no slide motor brake that is electrically applied. Now there may be a friction brake applied when there is no current to the motor, but I doubt LCI would spend the money to make a unique motor for the slides.
Thanks for your search for the info. I figured you were right, but being an aero engineer, I had to prove to myself there was no slide motor electrical brake. I highly value your opinions and observations.

The brake is a dynamic electrical brake. It's applied by shorting the field leads so if the motor starts turning the magnets generate a maximum current and Counter Electromotive Force (CEMF) opposing the turning force.

[Jimbo56]

I use slide locks regardless of what is supposed to keep the slides in. He’ll, I don’t trust anything to work correctly unless it was a repair/mod that I did myself. Sure, those 2 teeny ass motors will keep the slide in . Right!

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Jimbo56

I use slide locks regardless of what is supposed to keep the slides in. He’ll, I don’t trust anything to work correctly unless it was a repair/mod that I did myself. Sure, those 2 teeny ass motors will keep the slide in . Right!

Pull one of those tiny motors out…. put it in a vice….. put a wrench on the shaft… and try to spin it. You won’t be able to budge it with that gear reduction.

That being said….. I used to use Slide Locks with the Schwintek mechanism because of the tiny set screw that is supposed to hold the motor in place and not because of the motor itself. I have seen those set screws shear off from normal use.

Now with the Vroom Slide System I stopped using Slide Locks.

[TurboDave]

Good thread, new to me 2013 Tuscany 34ST with long slide that puts a 6” greasy black stripe on the tile floor (in central area of slide) when in and traveling. Now I know what to look for…. Suspect damaged or out of adjustment roller?

[wanderlust99]

Originally Posted by JasonBecker

Friends!



Video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/se9y4texmz...deout.MOV?dl=0

Thank you all for any input!

Hi Jason, thanks for sharing all of this. I'm scrutinizing the slide (along with most everything else) on our brand new Four Winds 31W, have found the slide operation a bit marginal and would like to see the video to learn more. The link at dropbox says the video has been removed. Is the video available somewhere? Thanks again!

[NMRVer]

X30 level first, then extend. I sunk a few times and built 2' x 2' leveling board for under the pads. Stopped that sinking feeling.