The New Outlaw 29-S

[Long & Winding road]

Graft that body with a "A class" front end and It would be on my short list in a few years. This is what a Mtn biker needs!

We talked about something like this before.... With the euro RV's (Small A class) have small garages for bikes etc. This would be a supersized version for the US market IMO.

So maybe someone at Thor headquarters actually reads stuff on this forum?

[Bob Denman]

Thor already makes some pretty neat Class A Toyhaulers...

[Chance]

Absolutely. Thor is finally building exactly the kind of toy hauler I’ve been asking for.


They must have been listening to me.

Small and fuel efficient
No slide
Large bike garage
SRW chassis
Front facing seats with shoulder belts
Twin beds

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Thor already makes some pretty neat Class A Toyhaulers...

Too big for me. I like the 27 - 32 foot range for a small A class for my needs right now.

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by Chance

Absolutely. Thor is finally building exactly the kind of toy hauler I’ve been asking for.


They must have been listening to me.

Small and fuel efficient
No slide
Large bike garage
SRW chassis
Front facing seats with shoulder belts
Twin beds

I love the looks but I like one with a slide please, and can you add fries and apple pie to my order as well?

I rather have two slides with a queen bed but I could live with one.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Long & Winding road

I love the looks but I like one with a slide please, and can you add fries and apple pie to my order as well?

I rather have two slides with a queen bed but I could live with one.

We already have what you describe. What we DONT have is a simpler, smaller, lightweight Hymer. So what would be gained by turning a Hymer into another ACE or Challenger? Or even a smaller Axis/Vegas? Just more of the same?

Having said that, I will bet that’s exactly what Thor will do. The Hymer design will gradually disappear.

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by Chance

We already have what you describe. What we DONT have is a simpler, smaller, lightweight Hymer. So what would be gained by turning a Hymer into another ACE or Challenger? Or even a smaller Axis/Vegas? Just more of the same?

Having said that, I will bet that’s exactly what Thor will do. The Hymer design will gradually disappear.

Well we "almost" have that.... Just like a larger storage for two bikes.

But im very happy with my choice. Realatively compact size, good looks, great towing compacity.

I have a good hitch mount for two bikes and it works well for me. Plus they get muddy sometimes so my storage comparment (Aka mini garage) would get dirty quick.

Are they dropping the Axis/Vegas for 2020? I have seen just about everything else EXCEPT for the new Axis/Vegas advertized on Motorhome Specialist.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Long & Winding road

.....cut.....

Are they dropping the Axis/Vegas for 2020? I have seen just about everything else EXCEPT for the new Axis/Vegas advertized on Motorhome Specialist.

Anything is possible — I have no idea what Thor may do with Axis/Vegas longer term. Keep in mind it’s only February, so give it another month or two before reading much into 2020 advertising.

What’s interesting about Axis/Vegas is how fast Thor abandoned its original mission. Originally it was marketed as a motorhome that was slightly larger than an SUV, and therefore easy to drive, park, etc. That’s how they came up with RUV designation, right? RV + SUV

However, it seems to me that by making subsequent Axis/Vegas floorplans larger, they moved into traditional Class A (F53 chassis) territory and farther from the original SUV comparison and functionality. I personally think the upscaling approach can backfire by leaving the Axis/Vegas without a unique identity of its own.


P.S. — I’m interested to see if they import any of the Hymer Class As to North America. Most are either on Fiat Ducato (RAM ProMaster) or Mercedes Sprinter chassis, so with a little revision they may fill a void in our NA market between vans and Class As.

[Long & Winding road]

Originally Posted by Chance

Anything is possible — I have no idea what Thor may do with Axis/Vegas longer term. Keep in mind it’s only February, so give it another month or two before reading much into 2020 advertising.

What’s interesting about Axis/Vegas is how fast Thor abandoned its original mission. Originally it was marketed as a motorhome that was slightly larger than an SUV, and therefore easy to drive, park, etc. That’s how they came up with RUV designation, right? RV + SUV

However, it seems to me that by making subsequent Axis/Vegas floorplans larger, they moved into traditional Class A (F53 chassis) territory and farther from the original SUV comparison and functionality. I personally think the upscaling approach can backfire by leaving the Axis/Vegas without a unique identity of its own.

P.S. — I’m interested to see if they import any of the Hymer Class As to North America. Most are either on Fiat Ducato (RAM ProMaster) or Mercedes Sprinter chassis, so with a little revision they may fill a void in our NA market between vans and Class As.

Yep, your are correct. Usually the new RV models should be out by April. But maybe in a few weeks we will see what is going on with Axis/Vegas (aka A/V) lineup.

Yes, the A/V seems to be growing (which I like) BUT the fact that the B and B+ market is so big now (IMO) the small A/V floor plans are too close to those and now the larger Axis is too close to an ACE or Hurricane.

I think A/V its still unque enough but Im afraid that half of the market will go slightly larger (Ace/Hurricane) or slightly smaller (B / B+).

Only time will tell.

They need to offer something unique to the A/V lineup to distiquish it from the ohters. Personally I like to see more storage - large enough for a Mtn bike (or two). Or perhaps they can add air ride? But it need to be something the other two dont offer currently.

[Long & Winding road]

Or maybe the will name the Hymer you showed above "Axis / Vegas", Just add a larger engine for the US market and we are all set. I would buy that RV if it price was simular to A/V and it had one slide (Gas engine is fine with me but I want to be able to tow 6000 # minimum).

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Long & Winding road

Or maybe the will name the Hymer you showed above "Axis / Vegas", Just add a larger engine for the US market and we are all set. I would buy that RV if it price was simular to A/V and it had one slide (Gas engine is fine with me but I want to be able to tow 6000 # minimum).

Not likely to happen for various reasons in my opinion.

Most Hymers are designed and built to be very light in order to meet Euro weight restrictions/incentives, don’t have slides, and engines are often below 200 HP.

The chassis are semi-unitized and not ideal for towing large trailers, although I’m aware that Winnebago Via/Reyo had an OK tow rating, but not as high as you prefer.

The Ford E-Series with single rear wheels could be updated very easily to make an Axis/Vegas that is much larger than vans, but smaller than present Axis/Vegas. A small Class A like the Hymer above could be built on a Ford SRW chassis with 6,000+ tow capacity.

Regarding size, there is a huge difference in living volume between the smallest Axis (24.1 floorplan) and the largest vans. A Hymer-size like the one above would split the difference. The perfect solution for me would be larger OEM vans, but that’s not going to happen at all, so smaller As may find their niche.

[Long & Winding road]

Yeah I hope they keep the A/V lineup around for a long time.

They could slip a new V8 under the hood, 10 sp tranny, do some areo tweeks and we could see 12 - 15 mpg? That would be a good selling point (IMO) compared to ACE/Hurricane lineup.....even if towing dropped to 6000# that would be enough for most folk (IMO).

[safari]

So Tell me, How stupid am I Thinking of trading in my 2017 Gemini for a 29j

outlaw. Knowing it's bigger, noisier & poor mpg.Thinking it would be good for Grandson & At times I could take my Motorcycle.

[Long & Winding road]

I dont think its stupid at all.

If you want to take your bike with you its one of the best ways to bring it.... Plus you may find other uses or needs for this garage down the road.

But you could just get a small trailer for your bike. Much cheaper and easier.

Then again.... you want more room inside the RV and storage under it, larger holding tanks, levelers and garage for the bike.... go for it.

[safari]

Originally Posted by Long & Winding road

I dont think its stupid at all.

If you want to take your bike with you its one of the best ways to bring it.... Plus you may find other uses or needs for this garage down the road.

But you could just get a small trailer for your bike. Much cheaper and easier.

Then again.... you want more room inside the RV and storage under it, larger holding tanks, levelers and garage for the bike.... go for it.

Thanks Pat,

& The Wife said lets get one, Hate to loose 17 mpg & not sure how it would ride. & would need to sell Gemini.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by safari

Thanks Pat,

& The Wife said lets get one, Hate to loose 17 mpg & not sure how it would ride. & would need to sell Gemini.

I'd be out the door on the way to the dealership as soon as I heard the "le" part of "lets get one"... "too late you said yes!"

[safari]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

I'd be out the door on the way to the dealership as soon as I heard the "le" part of "lets get one"... "too late you said yes!"

I said OK, YES/SHE said after our house gets new carpet first,That was a short party.Bummer So maybe in a few months.

[Bob Denman]

Congratulations, and Happy Hunting!
It's never foolish to buy something that will better fit your needs...
We got rid of our Outlaw, because we sold the Spyder, and no longer needed the garage...
We ended up "needing" a rig with a real bedroom for the Missus.

[safari]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Congratulations, and Happy Hunting!
It's never foolish to buy something that will better fit your needs...
We got rid of our Outlaw, because we sold the Spyder, and no longer needed the garage...
We ended up "needing" a rig with a real bedroom for the Missus.

Thanks Bob, I will not know if i like it till after I test drive one,They are so different than my Gemini,

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Long & Winding road

Yeah I hope they keep the A/V lineup around for a long time.

They could slip a new V8 under the hood, 10 sp tranny, do some areo tweeks and we could see 12 - 15 mpg? That would be a good selling point (IMO) compared to ACE/Hurricane lineup.....even if towing dropped to 6000# that would be enough for most folk (IMO).

For the time being, using present affordable technology, that much fuel-economy improvement requires significant downsizing. It’s doable, but on smaller scale.

Larger motorhomes like ACE/Hurricane get around 8 MPG, so getting to 12 MPG requires a 50% improvement. Comparing gasoline motorhomes today, you can get 12 MPG with smaller units in the 9,000~10,000-pound range instead of 14,000~15,000 pound size and weight. Cross section to wind drag has to be reduced significantly also by making them slightly narrower and lower.

Compact Class Cs running on gasoline based on RAM ProMaster and Ford Transit are already in the 12 MPG range, but have V6 engines and limited to 9,350- and 10,360-pound GVWR.

I think 12 MPG on gas may also be possible with a Class A no larger than the Winnebago Reyo/Via which were built on Mercedes Sprinter 11,000-pound chassis, and had a small slide (or two). With 5.0L V8 and 10-speed from F-150, a small Class A that size and weight could also tow 6,000 pounds. Most likely it wouldn’t get 12 MPG while towing.

Anyway, I believe 12 MPG could be achieved with smaller and lighter Class A using present technology by downsizing some. On the other hand, for a Class A to achieve 15 MPG on gas would require so much lightweighting and smaller size that it would be down to the size of larger vans. A middle ground of 12 MPG, if it offers much more space than van campers (Class Bs), could do well in market; provided cost is kept reasonable.