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Old 10-12-2018, 01:31 AM   #1
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THOR #12520
Our Palazzo was a LEMON

We purchased a as 33.3 and it was a lemon.

Here is a link to the entire story on IRV2

iRV2 Forums - MEWright



We got out of the Palazzo and into a Fleetwood Discovery 40G.
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Old 10-12-2018, 01:50 AM   #2
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I don't think you can call a 3+ year old used RV a "lemon".
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:51 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tfryman View Post
I don't think you can call a 3+ year old used RV a "lemon".
Actually I can. The lemon law applies to used coach's as well.

To the point, this coach has had many trips to the many different Cummings repair facilities, so many hat the factory was actually looking for it to assist with the repairs.

Full exhaust 2 times (ALL OF IT)
ECM
All injectors
All injectors again
Full wirring harness
All before we bought it.
New PDF filter while we had it
still showing DPF and injector codes now.

You call it what you will but when Freightliner cant fix it, Cumming has it as a LEVEL 2 service now and Cummings is preparing it to be a LEVEL 3 so they will send a factory crew to try and fix it.

Someone traded this turd in knowing the issues it had.


Pretty darn sure that is the EXACT def of a LEMON..

The sad part here is that with other coach's of the same quality sold by other less reputable dealers or individuals, the new owners can be ruined financially.

There is no way to really track service history through a carfax. Only calls to Cummings will reveal this, and only if the work was done there.
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Old 10-12-2018, 12:00 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by MEWright View Post
Actually I can. The lemon law applies to used coach's as well.
Really? Not in Florida.

Not in Texas either:
Quote:
section 2301.602 of the Texas Occupations Code dealing with the Regulation of Motor Vehicles and Transportation (better known as the “Texas Lemon Law”), only refers to “new motor vehicle(s).”
If the preowned vehicle is still covered under the car manufacturer’s existing warranty (and not the extended warranty), then the Texas Lemon Law “may” be used to force the manufacturer to repair the problem.

That's probably what's got the manufacturer involved.
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Old 10-12-2018, 12:16 PM   #5
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Sorry to hear that you had so much trouble...
I hope that your new RV treats you much better!
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Old 10-12-2018, 01:10 PM   #6
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sounds like a CUMMINS problem, not a Thor 'lemon' problem, though we understand your aggravation...I would post this on Cummins forums, as the rest of the thousands of very satisfied PALAZZO owners would not agree with you 'lemon' nomenclature.
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Old 10-12-2018, 05:46 PM   #7
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I agree...
Cummins is the problem: not Thor.
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Old 10-12-2018, 06:15 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
I agree...
Cummins is the problem: not Thor.

To be fair, I never said it was anyone's problem or fault. I said "it was a Lemon."

I never said we used the Lemon Law to help us. But I have researched the lemon law in Texas and spoke with several lawyers about it and how it could be used to rectify this situation if needed. It would have been a credible argument had it some to that.

So @ tfryman , simply put you are incorrect but you do not have all the facts.

It was not needed, the dealership that sold it to us recognized the issue and made it right by us.

I know this for 100% sure;

Its not my problem anymore!

Interesting how it does not appear that anyone read either my other posts here on this forum or the Blog on IRV2 but quickly assigned blame or tried to defend either Thor or Cummings. No where did I blame anyone. Very much the opposite, the dealership, Freightliner SA and Cummings were all awesome during this and had anyone read the other posts you would have seen that.

I posted this here so others looking at the 33.3 can see that while we did everything right, researched the heck out of the coach got a very clean carfax this one was BAD.

If any of you had taken the time to read my other posts you will see that I do not slam anyone, bad mouth anyone, point fingers at anyone or judge anyone I just wrote the story of what happened to US, not the "1000s of happy Thor owners", US.

This was the culmination and the conclusion of this chapter of our experience with Thor.
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Old 10-12-2018, 07:20 PM   #9
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The important thing, is that it's in the past now...
How's your new rig been treating you so far?
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Old 10-12-2018, 07:24 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
The important thing, is that it's in the past now...
How's your new rig been treating you so far?
We made it home, Thats a great start. We have had it less than 24hours so far.
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Old 10-12-2018, 07:43 PM   #11
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Here's to hoping that each and every 24 hours: continues to improve!
When will you be taking it out on a shakedown cruise?
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:26 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
Here's to hoping that each and every 24 hours: continues to improve!
When will you be taking it out on a shakedown cruise?
Thank you!

We will re-try the original shake down trip soon. 3-3day trips no more than 3 hours from home.

3 days 2 nights at each location. Great plan to learn how to set up and break down several times in different settings.
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Old 10-13-2018, 04:28 PM   #13
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I believe your labelling/tagging is what concerns most readers. Your engine problems involve an engine which is also available in Fleetwood models as well as numerous other manufactures. Would it not have been more appropriate, as others have stated, to have posted on the Cummins Forums over at IRV2 and label it as a engine problem that Cummins has tried to fix on numerous occasions? Or your posting here label it as, "Our Cummins Engine is a Lemon."

"If any of you had taken the time to read my other posts you will see that I do not slam anyone, bad mouth anyone, point fingers at anyone or judge anyone I just wrote the story of what happened to US, not the "1000s of happy Thor owners", US.

This was the culmination and the conclusion of this chapter of our experience with Thor."

Having read your blogs you stated,

"If there was a finger to be pointed anywhere or blame of any kinda placed, it would have to be at the previous owners of the Thor for trading it in like that or at Thor themselves. "

How do you know that the previous owner did not disclose the problems they encountered? Maybe they assumed that they were fixed. Are they all the same problem? Have you ever given thought to the reason why some dealers do not sell their own trade-ins? Did you ask your dealer what their plans were for the coach after it is fixed by Cummins?


"Its not my problem anymore! " Has CARFAX been updated so the next owner of the unit will not experience the same unfortunateness as you and your family did? Or will there even be a future problem if it is fixed?

It is unfortunate, what you and your family experienced, with your first RV. Your willingness to air your encounter so others can learn is appreciated. The bottom line, I think you attributed it to the wrong organization.
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Old 10-13-2018, 05:25 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Peterrrr View Post
I believe your labelling/tagging is what concerns most readers. Your engine problems involve an engine which is also available in Fleetwood models as well as numerous other manufactures. Would it not have been more appropriate, as others have stated, to have posted on the Cummins Forums over at IRV2 and label it as a engine problem that Cummins has tried to fix on numerous occasions? Or your posting here label it as, "Our Cummins Engine is a Lemon."

"If any of you had taken the time to read my other posts you will see that I do not slam anyone, bad mouth anyone, point fingers at anyone or judge anyone I just wrote the story of what happened to US, not the "1000s of happy Thor owners", US.

This was the culmination and the conclusion of this chapter of our experience with Thor."

Having read your blogs you stated,
Thank you for reading the entire blog

"If there was a finger to be pointed anywhere or blame of any kinda placed, it would have to be at the previous owners of the Thor for trading it in like that or at Thor themselves. "

How do you know that the previous owner did not disclose the problems they encountered? I dont know this but since the dealership stood up through the entire process, why would they lie about that at the beginning or end? And we bought another used coach from them for this exact reason

Maybe they assumed that they were fixed. Are they all the same problem? Cummings factory was aware it had been in multiple locations for different issues. Multiple issues had been worked on as I stated

Have you ever given thought to the reason why some dealers do not sell their own trade-ins? No I dont care about this, that is their business practice. Some sell trade ins, some buy at auction some only sell new. If they do sell used either way it is still a used coach, why would this matter in this thread?

Did you ask your dealer what their plans were for the coach after it is fixed by Cummings? Yes, they told me they would not even try to sell or wholesale it unless they were confident the repairs where completed. They are aware of the problem and do not want it going to some other unlucky person whether from them or another seller location. As i have stated repeatedly Ancira RV has been an awesome dealership to work with.


"Its not my problem anymore! " Has CARFAX been updated so the next owner of the unit will not experience the same unfortunateness as you and your family did?
I cannot update it, Carfax does not include (to my knowledge) any repair history. We checked on the coach, it was a great report when we purchased. I was told after the fact that Carfax does not check RVs the way it does cars due to the drive train coming from on manufacturer, trans from another and frame from another then going to coach builder. They typically show, flood-wrecks etc.. I could be wrong on this

Or will there even be a future problem if it is fixed?
I hope that if it is repaired and sold it never gives anyone a single problem. I hope if it is repaired they do a perfect job so it never leaves another family stranded.

It is unfortunate, what you and your family experienced, with your first RV. Your willingness to air your encounter so others can learn is appreciated. The bottom line, I think you attributed it to the wrong organization.
Fair enough.
I stated my blog by saying we researched for several years what we wanted and set our price range and budget. We really liked everything about the Thor Palazzo 33.3. It met all our needs so I will say this one more time;

IT WAS THIS COACH, NOT EVERY PALAZZO ON THE ROAD.

When we looked at purchasing this unit I looked at this forum and IRV2 not knowing to check Cummings forum or other places so I feel that the title, while some may not agree, is a fair assessment of the tribulations. Our Palazzo was by definition a Lemon. Since there can be no line of differentiation between coach and power plant, it can not say the motor was a Lemon, its the entire thing as a whole.

IMO; It should be listed as a lemon but that it is not my call.
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Old 10-13-2018, 08:33 PM   #15
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Model: Palazzo 33.3 34'bunkhouse
State: Alabama
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THOR #4735
While we empathize with you, it's easy to view that you are tending to ostracize all other Palazzo owners with your titling of your issue as somehow a 'model' deficiency or inherit problem, not one that is yours only, or even located only within the engine compartment, which is a product NOT built or manufactured by the brand. It's one that is built for almost EVERY diesel motorhome in the marketplace.
We would be much happier to help out if the cause was one of a humble 'incident' with your engine, and not one of pointing out and labeling as if 'all' Palazzos were somehow 'lemons'. You may not have intended it to sound that way, but that's why 'heading' proclamations can be misleading.
If you stated in your body that maybe you just 'got a lemon', I believe it would come across much better. You also purchased a USED vehicle... that's not what you headline would lead most to believe, at least at first glance, which is dangerous.
I also imagine that your problems are not a deep as you might think, right now, while you are aggravated. Many coaches have eventual engine related issues, though most are not dangerous, expensive, or hard to overcome. They are computer driven systems that sometimes, like a laptop, or your iphone, just need a 'reboot', or a similar simple reset.

Ours has had a few trip-ups over the years, but while aggravating and even unnerving at the time, while traveling, none rose to any major issue. A 'engine' alert light on the dash, though, doesn't make one feel comfortable to keep driving, even though sometimes it's really just an emissions related 'fault', and not one of a big concern. Take care of it at the next servicing, etc.

__________

RVs of all sorts tend to be 'status' symbols for those proud owners, and in this community, as in many aspects of life, those owners don't want to be around those who only serve to 'bash' or 'proclaim errors' on their beloved coaches.


May you travel safely, and have the times of your life : )
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Old 10-13-2018, 10:05 PM   #16
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Outlaw 3611
State: California
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THOR #576
Ancira bought it back 100%!!
Now that's a thread title.

My question is, what is the outcome desired with this thread?

Safe travels
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Old 10-25-2018, 12:58 AM   #17
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Agreed cummins...
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