Miramar PDI Fail

[Sun and Sand]

Hey all,

We went to take delivery of a new 2023 Miramar 35.2 at the dealer in Tampa. We told them a week before our purchase date that we would do a careful PDI before paying for the RV. We’re experienced RV owners, and know to do a careful PDI before finalizing a purchase. They told us no problem, and that they would make sure it’s ready. Come purchase day we did the walkthrough before signing any paperwork, and boy are we glad we PDI’d it before giving the dealer any money. The biggest issues were that the auto leveling didn’t work, the latch on the drivers side window had never been installed, the generator wouldn’t start and the biggest issue, the propane to the entire RV didn’t work. No hot water, no stove and no furnace. While we sat and waited for 5 hours, they tried to fix the propane but could not figure out what was wrong. They were going to replace the propane tank while we were waiting. Which would take 3-4 hours. But they said they didn’t know if that would actually fix the issue. At that point we just left.

It’s clear that the dealer never inspected the RV before we arrived like they promised to. And they tried to act like this was no big deal. It’s also clear that Thor does no QC at the factory. They just assemble the RV and leave it to the dealer and buyer to find the defects. Having owned 3 RV’s before, we’re used to things being wrong or breaking constantly. That’s just part of RV ownership as far as we’re concerned. By to have multiple big ticket systems DOA is pretty sad. And shame on the RV dealership for being so lazy and dishonest.

Is this the way it is now, or did we just have an unusually bad experience? We really liked the layout and storage in the Miramar, so we’re hoping this was an exception and not the rule for motor homes these post Covid days.

[Jimbo56]

It’s both. Good job to walk away!

[HMCSW]

Originally Posted by Sun and Sand

Hey all,

We went to take delivery of a new 2023 Miramar 35.2 at the dealer in Tampa. We told them a week before our purchase date that we would do a careful PDI before paying for the RV. We’re experienced RV owners, and know to do a careful PDI before finalizing a purchase. They told us no problem, and that they would make sure it’s ready. Come purchase day we did the walkthrough before signing any paperwork, and boy are we glad we PDI’d it before giving the dealer any money. The biggest issues were that the auto leveling didn’t work, the latch on the drivers side window had never been installed, the generator wouldn’t start and the biggest issue, the propane to the entire RV didn’t work. No hot water, no stove and no furnace. While we sat and waited for 5 hours, they tried to fix the propane but could not figure out what was wrong. They were going to replace the propane tank while we were waiting. Which would take 3-4 hours. But they said they didn’t know if that would actually fix the issue. At that point we just left.

It’s clear that the dealer never inspected the RV before we arrived like they promised to. And they tried to act like this was no big deal. It’s also clear that Thor does no QC at the factory. They just assemble the RV and leave it to the dealer and buyer to find the defects. Having owned 3 RV’s before, we’re used to things being wrong or breaking constantly. That’s just part of RV ownership as far as we’re concerned. By to have multiple big ticket systems DOA is pretty sad. And shame on the RV dealership for being so lazy and dishonest.

Is this the way it is now, or did we just have an unusually bad experience? We really liked the layout and storage in the Miramar, so we’re hoping this was an exception and not the rule for motor homes these post Covid days.

Sounds like a great dealer to never return to. Our dealer ran every system and even filled the fresh, grey and black water tanks for over night to make sure nothing leaked. When we picked it up the coach was running and the service rep walked us through every system, Basically, if the owner would need to operate the item the guy should us, even the control on the refrigerator. We came from boating and a complete systems inspection before exchanging money is the norm. Glad you were able to avoid a massive PITA. Avoid going back to that dealer.

[lwmcguir]

Well, I have to plug MHSRV once again.

We purchased on the phone and set up the time for the PDI which involved staying overnight in their sites. Prior to the PDI they had a clean up crew go completely through the RV and it had already been washed top to bottom.

Everything worked except one led map light. They replaced that in 15 minutes. Tried the washer and dryer plus the dish washer so a complete PDI. After the PDI they checked back twice to see if anything else needed attention.

We had a tech for the departure and unhook/hookup, towed and all then next day. They take you to the fuel island and put in 75 gallons so you can get down the road.

Quite a difference compared to the OP's PDI. And we bought at 38% off the Tuscany Sticker price. They were a tad unhappy we didn't finance.

There is a reason they sell a large number of Motor Homes

[HMCSW]

Originally Posted by lwmcguir

Well, I have to plug MHSRV once again.

We purchased on the phone and set up the time for the PDI which involved staying overnight in their sites. Prior to the PDI they had a clean up crew go completely through the RV and it had already been washed top to bottom.

Everything worked except one led map light. They replaced that in 15 minutes. Tried the washer and dryer plus the dish washer so a complete PDI. After the PDI they checked back twice to see if anything else needed attention.

We had a tech for the departure and unhook/hookup, towed and all then next day. They take you to the fuel island and put in 75 gallons so you can get down the road.

Quite a difference compared to the OP's PDI. And we bought at 38% off the Tuscany Sticker price. They were a tad unhappy we didn't finance.

There is a reason they sell a large number of Motor Homes

A good service department that works with sales is a must for me. Ours was a local BYoung in Vancouver Washington. They were great. Our camera display unit was flickering a little and the service tech that was with us did not like it. He took one our of another Aria and swapped it while we were doing the paperwork. I only buy cars or RVs from dealers with a service department I trust.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Sun and Sand

Hey all,

Is this the way it is now, or did we just have an unusually bad experience? ...

I always tell people that as important as the brand is the dealer....
In our case we agreed with the dealer to do PDI and take possession one week after we agreed on price...
We did notice some things that need fixing but they where not big deals and the dealer took note of them promising to have them fixed before the PDI.
During the week the dealer called me and and asked one more week for they found 46 items they wanted to fix before the PDI and I gladly agreed.
The MH had only 246 miles by then...
We waited the additional week and PDI went flawless....

It was the third RV that we buy from them so they know me...

If more RVers stand their ground and refuse to take delivery / close the deal of/on defective products this will change both, manufacturers and dealers behavior.

[Sun and Sand]

Could not agree more with you on buyers standing their ground on PDI issues. We gave the salesman a list of fairly minor things we noticed when we test drove the RV. He said he would make sure they were addressed before we came out to do the PDI. We made it super clear to the salesman that if anything major was wrong with the RV when we did the PDI that we would not complete the purchase. Not one of the things we passed on to the salesman had been addressed. And the RV tech who was supposed to prepare that RV admitted that he never tested anything. The big issues with the water heater, stove and furnace were not things we could have discovered seeing as the RV had no propane in it. We did notice the generator not starting during the test drive. It was on the list we gave to the salesman. This would be our 4th RV, so we know what we’re doing here. Our old RV dealer in Texas was great. For each RV we bought from them, the tech would proudly demonstrate every single system during the PDI and show us how well everything worked. I guess we got spoiled by that dealer. If anyone knows of an RV dealer in central Florida they have had a great experience with, we’d like to get a recommendation. We live in Orlando, so anything from Tampa to Daytona Beach is fine for us.

[HMCSW]

Originally Posted by Sun and Sand

Hey all,

We went to take delivery of a new 2023 Miramar 35.2 at the dealer in Tampa. We told them a week before our purchase date that we would do a careful PDI before paying for the RV. We’re experienced RV owners, and know to do a careful PDI before finalizing a purchase. They told us no problem, and that they would make sure it’s ready. Come purchase day we did the walkthrough before signing any paperwork, and boy are we glad we PDI’d it before giving the dealer any money. The biggest issues were that the auto leveling didn’t work, the latch on the drivers side window had never been installed, the generator wouldn’t start and the biggest issue, the propane to the entire RV didn’t work. No hot water, no stove and no furnace. While we sat and waited for 5 hours, they tried to fix the propane but could not figure out what was wrong. They were going to replace the propane tank while we were waiting. Which would take 3-4 hours. But they said they didn’t know if that would actually fix the issue. At that point we just left.

It’s clear that the dealer never inspected the RV before we arrived like they promised to. And they tried to act like this was no big deal. It’s also clear that Thor does no QC at the factory. They just assemble the RV and leave it to the dealer and buyer to find the defects. Having owned 3 RV’s before, we’re used to things being wrong or breaking constantly. That’s just part of RV ownership as far as we’re concerned. By to have multiple big ticket systems DOA is pretty sad. And shame on the RV dealership for being so lazy and dishonest.

Is this the way it is now, or did we just have an unusually bad experience? We really liked the layout and storage in the Miramar, so we’re hoping this was an exception and not the rule for motor homes these post Covid days.

COVID is just an excuse poor performers use to deflect. They were crap before and the last couple years exposed them. The top performers in any busyness shine. Our dealer had to put up with Washington's pathetic restrictions and always on top of things. Communicating and working with Thor to make sure my needs were taken care of.

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by Sun and Sand

Hey all,

We went to take delivery of a new 2023 Miramar 35.2 at the dealer in Tampa. We told them a week before our purchase date that we would do a careful PDI before paying for the RV. We’re experienced RV owners, and know to do a careful PDI before finalizing a purchase. They told us no problem, and that they would make sure it’s ready. Come purchase day we did the walkthrough before signing any paperwork, and boy are we glad we PDI’d it before giving the dealer any money. The biggest issues were that the auto leveling didn’t work, the latch on the drivers side window had never been installed, the generator wouldn’t start and the biggest issue, the propane to the entire RV didn’t work. No hot water, no stove and no furnace. While we sat and waited for 5 hours, they tried to fix the propane but could not figure out what was wrong. They were going to replace the propane tank while we were waiting. Which would take 3-4 hours. But they said they didn’t know if that would actually fix the issue. At that point we just left.

It’s clear that the dealer never inspected the RV before we arrived like they promised to. And they tried to act like this was no big deal. It’s also clear that Thor does no QC at the factory. They just assemble the RV and leave it to the dealer and buyer to find the defects. Having owned 3 RV’s before, we’re used to things being wrong or breaking constantly. That’s just part of RV ownership as far as we’re concerned. By to have multiple big ticket systems DOA is pretty sad. And shame on the RV dealership for being so lazy and dishonest.

Is this the way it is now, or did we just have an unusually bad experience? We really liked the layout and storage in the Miramar, so we’re hoping this was an exception and not the rule for motor homes these post Covid days.

Issues with lazy and incompetent dealers existed long before COVID. A prime example is Camping World.

[Lt Keefer]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

Issues with lazy and incompetent dealers existed long before COVID. A prime example is Camping World.

Amen to that. Camping World, the store, is everything that a successful retail establishment should not be.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Lt Keefer

Amen to that. Camping World, the store, is everything that a successful retail establishment should not be.

That is the reason I bought 3 rigs in a row from the same dealer.

Small family owned dealers that work hard to do the right thing may not have the absolute lowest price but if the difference is not significant, they have my business...

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

That is the reason I bought 3 rigs in a row from the same dealer.

Small family owned dealers that work hard to do the right thing may not have the absolute lowest price but if the difference is not significant, they have my business...

Problem is the good ones are getting bought up by Camping World or that other conglomerate. Two family dealers I dealt with in Virginia are now Camping World doing business under the old family name. Once purchased CW’s team comes in and the place goes to crap.

[Sun and Sand]

At this point in time I look at it as being solely the buyer’s responsibility to ensure that the RV they are buying is in good working order. Between the RV dealers and the RV manufacturers there’s no quality ethic anymore. Apart from some higher end brands, most of the big name manufacturers just are not doing any QC at the factories anymore. My guess is that Thor’s version of QC is to see if the slide outs close and the engine starts so the unit can be driven to the dealership. I suspect that they just assemble the RV and leave it to the dealer and buyer to find the defects.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Sun and Sand

At this point in time I look at it as being solely the buyer’s responsibility to ensure that the RV they are buying is in good working order. Between the RV dealers and the RV manufacturers there’s no quality ethic anymore. Apart from some higher end brands, most of the big name manufacturers just are not doing any QC at the factories anymore. My guess is that Thor’s version of QC is to see if the slide outs close and the engine starts so the unit can be driven to the dealership. I suspect that they just assemble the RV and leave it to the dealer and buyer to find the defects.

Thor's quality control is very close to non-existent based on how many coaches show up in similar condition to the one you looked at.

Some people get very lucky and get a coach that was put together properly but its the 80 - 20 rule in reverse.... 20% come out with some level of quality and workmanship that would meet most people's expectations and 80% do not.

[Sun and Sand]

Originally Posted by Judge

Thor's quality control is very close to non-existent based on how many coaches show up in similar condition to the one you looked at.

Some people get very lucky and get a coach that was put together properly but its the 80 - 20 rule in reverse.... 20% come out with some level of quality and workmanship that would meet most people's expectations and 80% do not.

Do you think quality is being managed better at other similar manufacturers like Forest River, Winnebago and even some internal Thor Industries brands like Jayco and Entegra?

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Sun and Sand

Do you think quality is being managed better at other similar manufacturers like Forest River, Winnebago and even some internal Thor Industries brands like Jayco and Entegra?

Thor Motorcoach certainly seems to have some of the lowest quality and workmanship. I base that not only on my own experience and reports on this forum but just talking to people at campgrounds, etc. in my travels.

I think almost all RV Manufacturers suffer from a lack for uniform quality standards.... and even more so after COVID. The manufacturers also don't hold dealers to a uniform standard of quality and service and make them accountable.... but that works both ways.

I know people with Jayco and Entegra units who have had issues too but I'm not saying they are a poor rating in terms of quality and workmanship.

I have put a lot of time and money fixing the poor quality and workmanship in my coach to get it where it should have been when it was driven out of Indiana. After two Thor coaches..... I won't buy a third.

If I were going to buy another Super C, I would be looking at manufacturers with better reputations like Renegade and Dynamax who seem to have fewer reported issues and better assembly practices.

That being said... my '20 Magnitude SV34 will likely be my last coach once we finish our last couple big trips like Alaska this year and another long trip next year.

I thought about perhaps downsizing to an AirStream Atlas but it is hard to swallow the $300K price tag for a Class. B+. The quality and workmanship seem top notch but I just can't pay a price that is approaching some of the better Super C's out there. If we decided to keep an RV and downsize, I might look at an AirStream Travel Trailer instead.

[Scubawise]

Originally Posted by Sun and Sand

Hey all,

We went to take delivery of a new 2023 Miramar 35.2 at the dealer in Tampa. We told them a week before our purchase date that we would do a careful PDI before paying for the RV. We’re experienced RV owners, and know to do a careful PDI before finalizing a purchase. They told us no problem, and that they would make sure it’s ready. Come purchase day we did the walkthrough before signing any paperwork, and boy are we glad we PDI’d it before giving the dealer any money. The biggest issues were that the auto leveling didn’t work, the latch on the drivers side window had never been installed, the generator wouldn’t start and the biggest issue, the propane to the entire RV didn’t work. No hot water, no stove and no furnace. While we sat and waited for 5 hours, they tried to fix the propane but could not figure out what was wrong. They were going to replace the propane tank while we were waiting. Which would take 3-4 hours. But they said they didn’t know if that would actually fix the issue. At that point we just left.

It’s clear that the dealer never inspected the RV before we arrived like they promised to. And they tried to act like this was no big deal. It’s also clear that Thor does no QC at the factory. They just assemble the RV and leave it to the dealer and buyer to find the defects. Having owned 3 RV’s before, we’re used to things being wrong or breaking constantly. That’s just part of RV ownership as far as we’re concerned. By to have multiple big ticket systems DOA is pretty sad. And shame on the RV dealership for being so lazy and dishonest.

Is this the way it is now, or did we just have an unusually bad experience? We really liked the layout and storage in the Miramar, so we’re hoping this was an exception and not the rule for motor homes these post Covid days.

Glad you walked away. We had no big issues with MHSRV.
As a matter of fact the tech was in the MH waiting for us with most things running.

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by Sun and Sand

Do you think quality is being managed better at other similar manufacturers like Forest River, Winnebago and even some internal Thor Industries brands like Jayco and Entegra?

They all have problems and the customer experience is dependent on the dealer and whether the dealer inspects and preps a unit upon arrival. We’ve had a couple issues with our Entegra and most of them were amplified by dealer incompetence after COVID hit.

I know a dealer that severed their contract or relationship with Fleetwood because of the condition they received their coaches and Fleetwood’s warranty practices and reimbursement. This included their high end diesel pushers and gassers.

[Sun and Sand]

Thanks,

How is Thor’s customer service?

[HMCSW]

Originally Posted by Sun and Sand

Thanks,

How is Thor’s customer service?

They have been great for me. Always followed up, never denied any warranty work and even provided a "good will" approval for something when the coach was 3 months out of warranty.