RV handling

[rxsleeper]

Not arguing, but it is posted above to use +5⁰ CAMBER.

Trying to help others make the distinction between Camber and CASTER. I am very familiar with both, and toe, and track., etc.

Cheers,

[Bob Denman]

So to enlighten those of us who aren't front-end specialists : how do you define caster and camber?

[rxsleeper]

Camber is the amount of Angle of the tire when viewed from the front/back, when straight. Positive camber is an inward angle, negative camber is an outward angle of the tire. Viewing from the front of the vehicle and assuming the top of the tire is stationary(top of the tire meaning closest to the top of a fender).

Caster is the angle fore and after of the wheel(tire) in relation to being vertical with the suspension. And may be best illustrated by this image

I am not an expert, and I didn't stay at a holiday Inn recently. But I do race sports cars and know a little about alignments.

Go troll someone else. I was trying to help and clarify what was had been posted above..
I'm done and you can carry on

[Bob Denman]

Thanks!

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

Do a front end alignment before doing anything else. Shoot for 5+ degrees positive caster.

That should significantly improve return to center handling which is what the springs in a Safe T Plus or a Roadmaster do.

David

Originally Posted by Hugh.vines@att.net

Does that +5 camber work on the 450 too

Originally Posted by rxsleeper

Not arguing, but it is posted above to use +5⁰ CAMBER.

Trying to help others make the distinction between Camber and CASTER. I am very familiar with both, and toe, and track., etc.

Cheers,

Go back and follow the thread.

David started with 5+ degrees CASTER.
Hugh.vines quoted David but asked about CAMBER - probably a mistype.

You are well versed enough in alignment settings to know that camber does nothing to help keep a vehicle going straight down the road. It may help in handling curves, but for most vehicles camber is set pretty close to 0 degrees unless dictated otherwise by the suspension geometry.

Positive caster is what keeps the vehicle pointed straight ahead.

[JimmyZ]

Originally Posted by Scubawise

JimmyZ did that blue thing and the black spring come in the kit? is it hard to install

All the "blue parts" are in the trac bar kit.

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

So to enlighten those of us who aren't front-end specialists : how do you define caster and camber?

Simple - if you have a suspension with positive caster, when you turn the steering wheel left or right of center, it will raise the entire front of the vehicle. If you have negative caster, tuning the steering wheel will lower the entire of the vehicle. The heavier the vehicle and the lower the steering ratio, the more profound the effect of caster. Now you know why front engine cars usually have power steering and rear engine cars usually do not need power steering.

[MJC62]

Ok I will ask again on this post. Does anyone know where or have a link to where a guy can see the recommended alignment specs for the F53 Motorhome chassis. It's got to be available somewhere. I just can't seem to find it. As I said on another post I would like to see what Ford says prior to taking it to the truck alignment center in the next county.
I didn't stay in a Holiday in Express, but I was an ASE certified auto mechanic in 1974 so I have seen a thing or two including doing my share of front end alignments as a much younger man.
It is always good to have pertinent information when having work done on anything you own.
Tx
Mark

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by MJC62

Ok I will ask again on this post. Does anyone know where or have a link to where a guy can see the recommended alignment specs for the F53 Motorhome chassis. It's got to be available somewhere. I just can't seem to find it. As I said on another post I would like to see what Ford says prior to taking it to the truck alignment center in the next county.
I didn't stay in a Holiday in Express, but I was an ASE certified auto mechanic in 1974 so I have seen a thing or two including doing my share of front end alignments as a much younger man.
It is always good to have pertinent information when having work done on anything you own.
Tx
Mark

AXLES:
Front Axle — Type Forged I-beam
— Capacity (Rating @ Ground) 8000 lbs. with 16,000-lb. to 22,000-lb. GVWR; 9000 lbs. with 24,000-lb. and26,000-lb. GVWR


— King Pin Angle 5.5° (16,000-lb., 22,000-lb. GVWR); 6.5° (24,000-lb., 26,000-lb. GVWR)


— Caster Angle 4.6° (16,000-lb., 22,000-lb. GVWR); 4.25° (24,000-lb., 26,000-lb. GVWR)


Rear Axle — Type — Full-floating Full-floating, Dana
— Capacity (Rating @ Ground) 12,000 lbs. with 16,000-lb. to 18,000-lb. GVWR, 13,500 lbs. with 20,500-lb. GVWR, 15,000 lbs. with 22,000-lb. GVWR, 17,500 lbs. with 24,000-lb. to26,000-lb. GVWR
— Axle Ratio 4.30 (16,000-lb. and 18,000-lb. GVWR); 5.38 (20,500-lb. and 22,000-lb.GVWR); 6.17 (24,000-lb. and 26,000-lb. GVWR

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by MJC62

Ok I will ask again on this post. Does anyone know where or have a link to where a guy can see the recommended alignment specs for the F53 Motorhome chassis. It's got to be available somewhere. I just can't seem to find it. As I said on another post I would like to see what Ford says prior to taking it to the truck alignment center in the next county.
I didn't stay in a Holiday in Express, but I was an ASE certified auto mechanic in 1974 so I have seen a thing or two including doing my share of front end alignments as a much younger man.
It is always good to have pertinent information when having work done on anything you own.
Tx
Mark

Don't you mean NIASE Certified? It was much later that they dropped the NI. My first career was as an Auto Mechanic and I was NIASE Certified as well. Before I became that smart I worked for Murphy Mart Auto Centers (Uniroyal) and they loved to sell the lifetime alignments so that's where I began as well.

[MJC62]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Don't you mean NIASE Certified? It was much later that they dropped the NI. My first career was as an Auto Mechanic and I was NIASE Certified as well. Before I became that smart I worked for Murphy Mart Auto Centers (Uniroyal) and they loved to sell the lifetime alignments so that's where I began as well.

Yes ACE you are correct NIASE. The National Institute for Automotive Service Excellence the precursor to the ASA certification. I forgot their was another NIASE alum on this forum
For those unfamiliar NIASE used to test and certify auto mechanics in the different disciplines of Automotive repair. I forgot all them. I was certified in front end alignment, A/C, brakes / tune up and carburation. They would give you a patch with each certification for your jacket and an orange gear with NIASE in the center. If you were a whiz and passed all the disciplines they made gave you a double gear.

[MJC62]

Originally Posted by Beau388

AXLES:
Front Axle — Type Forged I-beam
— Capacity (Rating @ Ground) 8000 lbs. with 16,000-lb. to 22,000-lb. GVWR; 9000 lbs. with 24,000-lb. and26,000-lb. GVWR


— King Pin Angle 5.5° (16,000-lb., 22,000-lb. GVWR); 6.5° (24,000-lb., 26,000-lb. GVWR)


— Caster Angle 4.6° (16,000-lb., 22,000-lb. GVWR); 4.25° (24,000-lb., 26,000-lb. GVWR)


Rear Axle — Type — Full-floating Full-floating, Dana
— Capacity (Rating @ Ground) 12,000 lbs. with 16,000-lb. to 18,000-lb. GVWR, 13,500 lbs. with 20,500-lb. GVWR, 15,000 lbs. with 22,000-lb. GVWR, 17,500 lbs. with 24,000-lb. to26,000-lb. GVWR
— Axle Ratio 4.30 (16,000-lb. and 18,000-lb. GVWR); 5.38 (20,500-lb. and 22,000-lb.GVWR); 6.17 (24,000-lb. and 26,000-lb. GVWR

Beau thanks for the specs.
Back in the olden days the MFGRS used to give you a between this number and that number as long as it fell somewhere in the middle between the two it was considered good. Unless a vehicle had issues that it pulled left or right if the numbers fell within spec we left it be. Camber and toe in were a bit more critical for tire wear especially with the old bias ply tires

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by MJC62

Beau thanks for the specs.
Back in the olden days the MFGRS used to give you a between this number and that number as long as it fell somewhere in the middle between the two it was considered good. Unless a vehicle had issues that it pulled left or right if the numbers fell within spec we left it be. Camber and toe in were a bit more critical for tire wear especially with the old bias ply tires

With modern alignment equipment there is no reason for close as any adjustment can be nearly perfect (+ or - 0.1 degree. With ESP (electronic stability program) or whatever, steering wheel position, traction sensors, internal accelerators, computer controlled differential and differential braking misalignment error can cause weird handling. Yes, the modern top of the line class A have all of this as well as the birds-eye camera display Newmar even offers adaptive cruise control. blind spot monitoring, lane keeping but no auto parallel parking yet.

[keefd]

So what's the best way to get rid of horrible on-center steering?

I just drove my 2018 Axis 25.2 about 600 miles home from the dealer. Goes like a Ferrari RV, brakes really well, VERY good at tight spaces and low-speed handling.

At 70 MPH? The steering wheel is just a vague suggestion. There's so much slop it makes a broke-down Yugo or Trabant feel like a Lotus Elise. Steering effort was easy, but I had to constantly make large corrections and going down the highway my wheel was turned about 15-20 deg to the right almost all the time.

I will be doing an alignment ASAP, but I can't help but feel it won't help the huge on-center dead zone. I can turn the wheel 2" or so either way and nothing happens.

I will admit wind may have been a factor on turning to the right so much, but I really do not like the dead zone/steering slop.


edit - Just checked the tires, 72 PSI all around and the undercarriage looks like it just rolled out of the factory. Doesn't mean parts aren't bad, but nothing looks damaged and the rust is minimal.

[Jimbo56]

Originally Posted by Islandsmith

The CHF did a lot for my handling but the number one thing was to set my tire pressure correctly. When I got the rig it came with tire pressure set to MAX. After weighing and checking with the Goodyear site I dropped the pressure to 80PSI in the rear and 85PSI in the front and it made a world of difference.

That’s what psi I run in mine and yes, it makes a big difference.

[Hugh.vines@att.net]

Originally Posted by keefd

So what's the best way to get rid of horrible on-center steering?

I just drove my 2018 Axis 25.2 about 600 miles home from the dealer. Goes like a Ferrari RV, brakes really well, VERY good at tight spaces and low-speed handling.

At 70 MPH? The steering wheel is just a vague suggestion. There's so much slop it makes a broke-down Yugo or Trabant feel like a Lotus Elise. Steering effort was easy, but I had to constantly make large corrections and going down the highway my wheel was turned about 15-20 deg to the right almost all the time.

I will be doing an alignment ASAP, but I can't help but feel it won't help the huge on-center dead zone. I can turn the wheel 2" or so either way and nothing happens.

I will admit wind may have been a factor on turning to the right so much, but I really do not like the dead zone/steering slop.


edit - Just checked the tires, 72 PSI all around and the undercarriage looks like it just rolled out of the factory. Doesn't mean parts aren't bad, but nothing looks damaged and the rust is minimal.

I don’t think there’s anything that gets rid of the slop

[halfprice]

Safe t plus take the slop out

[Hugh.vines@att.net]

Originally Posted by halfprice

Safe t plus take the slop out

I’ve got safety plus installed by safety plus but still have slop. Just not as much

[taylorbob1]

It’s alignment with the +5 caster that is step one.
Then either the $100 Bilstein steering damper or the $500+ steering stabilizer as step two.

[keefd]

So where does everyone go for RV alignments? I called a big rig tire place, they told me they don't do alignments. Called Firestone and they can't handle motorhomes unfortunately.
All the other big rig places are closed today (Sunday).