'Solar Ready' definition

[sage]

Sorry to dissent but I don't find w6lmj's goal all that outrageous. I have the same issue. I was dry camping three weeks ago in a National Seashore park and had the same problem. Five in the morning and I wanted a cup of coffee and a toasted bagel. There were no hookups and it was too early to fire up the genny.

I'm solving my issue with by purchasing a River Mobile Power Station from Ecoflow Technology. It provides 116,000 mAh/412Wh with two AC outlets, a 12V outlet and 4 USB ports. The version I'm purchasing comes with a 50W solar panel that will recharge the unit from dead in about 10hours. It weighs 11 pounds and is about the size of a 12 pack of beer. When it is released in August you can buy this setup for $999, but you can pre-order now for $750.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by sage

I'm solving my issue with by purchasing a River Mobile Power Station from Ecoflow Technology. It provides 116,000 mAh/412Wh with two AC outlets, a 12V outlet and 4 USB ports. The version I'm purchasing comes with a 50W solar panel that will recharge the unit from dead in about 10hours. It weighs 11 pounds and is about the size of a 12 pack of beer. When it is released in August you can buy this setup for $999, but you can pre-order now for $750.

I like how they specify it as: 116,000 mAh ... ooh that is sooo big instead of just 116Ah

[TyCreek]

Originally Posted by sage

...
I'm solving my issue with by purchasing a River Mobile Power Station from Ecoflow Technology. It provides 116,000 mAh/412Wh with two AC outlets, a 12V outlet and 4 USB ports. The version I'm purchasing comes with a 50W solar panel that will recharge the unit from dead in about 10hours. It weighs 11 pounds and is about the size of a 12 pack of beer. When it is released in August you can buy this setup for $999, but you can pre-order now for $750.

Let us know how that works out ... A 50W panel to recharge it in 10hrs? hum...?

[RipVanWinkle]

Originally Posted by TyCreek

My interpretation of solar ready is: thin wire!
Maybe 10 gauge and 200W or so.
YMMV

Just got notified by THOR that they use 10 gauge wire for solar.

Now I am trying to find out what the max amps is that I can put on the roof . Looks like about 5.5 A per 100 watt panel so no more than 500 watt for 10 gauge wire... or is my math off here ?

[Chance]

Originally Posted by sage

Sorry to dissent but I don't find w6lmj's goal all that outrageous. I have the same issue. I was dry camping three weeks ago in a National Seashore park and had the same problem. Five in the morning and I wanted a cup of coffee and a toasted bagel. There were no hookups and it was too early to fire up the genny.

I'm solving my issue with by purchasing a River Mobile Power Station from Ecoflow Technology. It provides 116,000 mAh/412Wh with two AC outlets, a 12V outlet and 4 USB ports. The version I'm purchasing comes with a 50W solar panel that will recharge the unit from dead in about 10hours. It weighs 11 pounds and is about the size of a 12 pack of beer. When it is released in August you can buy this setup for $999, but you can pre-order now for $750.

Their specs show 300 watts total AC power from two 110-Volt outlets combined. How do you plan to make coffee or power a toaster on 300 watts?


I get your need (morning coffee is essential), but why not just power a larger inverter off your house battery? Solar isn't even needed since you can charge the house battery (or batteries) the night before prior to quiet time. It's not like solar works at night anyway.


I'm not against solar, but in some applications it's not essential.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

I like how they specify it as: 116,000 mAh ... ooh that is sooo big instead of just 116Ah

Not only that, but how do they rate energy at 412Wh?


Either the battery voltage is very low (much below 12 Volts), or they are including overall energy efficiency as delivered to 110-Volt outlets, which wouldn't make sense (due to also having DC outlets) and or efficiency would be rather low.

[croused]

Originally Posted by Chance

Their specs show 300 watts total AC power from two 110-Volt outlets combined. How do you plan to make coffee or power a toaster on 300 watts?


I get your need (morning coffee is essential), but why not just power a larger inverter off your house battery? Solar isn't even needed since you can charge the house battery (or batteries) the night before prior to quiet time. It's not like solar works at night anyway.


I'm not against solar, but in some applications it's not essential.

Consider a coffee percolator on the burner!

[Chance]

Originally Posted by croused

Consider a coffee percolator on the burner!

Not happening.

I will never stand between my wife and her first cup on Keurig.

[TyCreek]

Originally Posted by RipVanWinkle

Just got notified by THOR that they use 10 gauge wire for solar.

Now I am trying to find out what the max amps is that I can put on the roof . Looks like about 5.5 A per 100 watt panel so no more than 500 watt for 10 gauge wire... or is my math off here ?

Make sure you calculate in the wire length

[DogLovers]

Originally Posted by Chance

Not happening.

I will never stand between my wife and her first cup on Keurig.

Absolutely not! My wife and I woke one morning after a storm to no power at home so no Keurig! It wasn't pretty. The neighbors still talk about it!!!

[TyCreek]

Originally Posted by RipVanWinkle

Just got notified by THOR that they use 10 gauge wire for solar.

Now I am trying to find out what the max amps is that I can put on the roof . Looks like about 5.5 A per 100 watt panel so no more than 500 watt for 10 gauge wire... or is my math off here ?

Sorry to double quote but I'm on a computer now and can give a bit more information to share why I posted 200W or so comment early on in this thread. Hopefully before an order for 5x100W PV's takes place

Ok... I'll try to summarize: Assume or work toward a maximum of 2% loss between PV & Battery and work from there ... If 2x100W panels total 11 Amps at 12V'ish and 10 gauge wire can provide 2% or less loss up to about 7 feet for 15 Amps you can accommodate those 2 PV's. With this 12V type thought reference, if your real wire length is actually closer to 10-11 feet you'd be pushing a 2% max loss target with even 2 of those panels.

To be under 2% with 5 of those panels your 10 gauge wire length would likely be just a few feet (especially if connectors are also factored in).

Certainly there are other factors and in real use you'd likely not be hitting max PV current very often. I'm just trying to help with some core basic design rules that stick in my head from previous experiments in solar and wind storage systems.

The solution IMO is to increase PV voltage such as 24 or 48V with 12V compatible controller solution options. This concept happens to be more attainable with higher efficiencies recently and was mentioned earlier in this thread.

[RipVanWinkle]

Originally Posted by TyCreek

Sorry to double quote but I'm on a computer now and can give a bit more information to share why I posted 200W or so comment early on in this thread. Hopefully before an order for 5x100W PV's takes place

Ok... I'll try to summarize: Assume or work toward a maximum of 2% loss between PV & Battery and work from there ... If 2x100W panels total 11 Amps at 12V'ish and 10 gauge wire can provide 2% or less loss up to about 7 feet for 15 Amps you can accommodate those 2 PV's. With this 12V type thought reference, if your real wire length is actually closer to 10-11 feet you'd be pushing a 2% max loss target with even 2 of those panels.

To be under 2% with 5 of those panels your 10 gauge wire length would likely be just a few feet (especially if connectors are also factored in).

Certainly there are other factors and in real use you'd likely not be hitting max PV current very often. I'm just trying to help with some core basic design rules that stick in my head from previous experiments in solar and wind storage systems.

The solution IMO is to increase PV voltage such as 24 or 48V with 12V compatible controller solution options. This concept happens to be more attainable with higher efficiencies recently and was mentioned earlier in this thread.

Thanks for the info ...and I didnt order yet since i have to do more research on this. I was hoping to put at least 400 watt of solar on the roof so I can keep things running when boondocking.( still working fulltime and hating the sound of a generator ) Also have to take a close look at batteries and see how they all fit together..what good is solar if the batteries wont hold it.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by RipVanWinkle

Thanks for the info ...and I didnt order yet since i have to do more research on this. I was hoping to put at least 400 watt of solar on the roof so I can keep things running when boondocking.( still working fulltime and hating the sound of a generator ) Also have to take a close look at batteries and see how they all fit together..what good is solar if the batteries wont hold it.

This article may help if you can get through some of the technical language and ideas (not sure of your background). On page 3 it gives a couple of examples which relate to wiring size, and whether it's limited by ampacity (in essence ability to conduct current without burning up) versus economy in order to maximize energy harvested from your panels. I think the difference is key.


Voltage Drop in PV Systems | SolarPro Magazine


The short article is written for large industrial PV systems, but the principle applies here too. You're probably not as limited as you may think. The real difference here appears to be that you have to work backwards. If you were engineering a complete system, then you can choose whatever size wire (conductors) make most sense. But in this case, given conductors are chosen by Thor, then the question is how much voltage drop are you willing to accept in order to harvest more power.


By the way, note the reference they make about higher voltages. The benefit is more significant than one would first think.

[w6lmj]

My wife's first purchase for the 24SR was a Keurig for the MH. I bought a Fiat 500C and am now contemplating Roadmaster or Blue Ox baseplate for the car. I would like to install myself and save the labor costs.

[Dona40]

Originally Posted by TyCreek

Yes that's exactly the suggestion ... though I'd guess 10ga to be at actual limits around 250W in a typical 12V RV's wire length run. Certainly there are ways to utilize some parts of the pre-wire to achieve a higher power array, though it will likely mean splicing in larger wires and only using the prep-wire for a short span to eliminate pulling larger wires through the roof for example. Somewhat of a kludge IMO. Thats where YMMV comes into play...

Basically, a solar prep RV option is good for very nice battery maintainer systems but not much use when designing a "really usable" fully 12V solar solution. Wire gauge and run length are factors to consider. Wire should be considered when upgrading inverters too as I doubt the factory sized wires appropriate for 2000W if the rig came with 1000W.

If I were to put in my 2 amps worth, 10 ga. would be fine up to 1000 watts of solar power input run at 24 volts. Better at 48. I can only fit 1000 watts worth of panel on top of my 40 footer and unless you live on the equator, you'll never see the panels full potential anyway. You don't need 4 ga. wire for you car speakers either

[Porkchop]

Did you catch that this thread is 4 years dead?

[Bob Denman]

Yeah... ancient thread.

[TyCreek]

Seeing me quoted ... from RV's past ... got me to pop back in here for a short look'see.

Originally Posted by Dona40

If I were to put in my 2 amps worth, 10 ga. would be fine up to 1000 watts of solar power input run at 24 volts. Better at 48. I can only fit 1000 watts worth of panel on top of my 40 footer and unless you live on the equator, you'll never see the panels full potential anyway. You don't need 4 ga. wire for you car speakers either

Dona40, Context is everything ... hope you find "truth" and understanding in your 2 amp quest

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Yeah... ancient thread.

Hey Bob, I see you're still out here keeping Thor owners entertained... Chuckle ... hope your alternate rig is treating you well