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Old 06-29-2017, 12:32 PM   #1
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On Vegas, is whole coach (minus A/C, microwave, fridge) inverter possible?

I've been searching on this forum and others, and only see one mention of doing something like this. I think the two biggest irritations with the Vegas is lack of leveler and lack of inverter.

I'm being told by dealer I've been negotiating with that a whole coach inverter isn't possible, only making 2-3 outlets available.

Ideally, I would like to put in a full coach inverter that powers all 110v outlets, except the one the microwave is plugged into, possibly the fridge (wouldn't want it to sense power and switch from propane to inverted battery source) and of course not power the A/C.

I want to be able to power TVs when off power (on move or parked with no power), but also need the outlets near the bed hot (CPAP), not to mention flexibility to plug in other things as needed.

Nothing should be a very high draw, doing whole coach is more about convenience and not having to run extension cords to a single or portable inverter.

So, my understanding to accomplish this, I know probably something like a 2000 watt inverter, a transfer switch and possibly a separate sub panel.

I realize there might be a chunk of labor involved, but other than it being labor intensive, is there any reason I can't accomplish what I want without adding new outlets around the coach or being limited to only 2-3 outlets?
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Old 06-29-2017, 12:44 PM   #2
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Anything is possible with time and money. There are people out there that have systems like that. Best option is to scour YouTube. I wanted to do something similar but was kinda talked out of it and am regretting it. I would have got a 3000 Watt pure sine inverter, the biggest battery bank I could reasonable hold think minimum six or more good Trojan batteries then put as much solar as the roof can stand and maybe a suitcase panel for good measure. Obviously you still have the genny I'm guessing an Onan 4K for your model. Then get a controller that will monitor and distribute power the most efficient way possible. This won't be cheap, but you almost never worry about power unless you boondock in the desert for two or three cloudless weeks. The technomadia YouTube channel explains this well if you look at some of their old stuff, they went all out with Lithium but you don't have to go that far given the size of you rig and if it's a dual propane/electric fridge keep it then as long as you have propane you wont be doing like me and throwing out food from the fridge when you have an electrical issue...is this probably overkill yes ( and a with something like this you could run the A/C for a while if you had to) but it's what you really want and can afford it go for it.
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Old 06-29-2017, 12:55 PM   #3
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I put a 1000 Watt pure sine wave inverter in my ACE 27.1. I wanted to be able to power the TVs and entertainment/Internet/LAN equipment from the battery either down the road or when boondocking. I located the output cable coming out of the breaker box that was the "receptacle" cable and wired the output of the inverter into it with a DPDT switch. The switch allows me to select either the inverter or the breaker panel as the source for everything on the receptacles line. Since the inverter has 2 output plugs, if I needed to do the same thing to a separate line coming out of the breaker box I could.
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Old 06-29-2017, 01:06 PM   #4
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I put a 1000 Watt pure sine wave inverter in my ACE 27.1. I wanted to be able to power the TVs and entertainment/Internet/LAN equipment from the battery either down the road or when boondocking. I located the output cable coming out of the breaker box that was the "receptacle" cable and wired the output of the inverter into it with a DPDT switch. The switch allows me to select either the inverter or the breaker panel as the source for everything on the receptacles line. Since the inverter has 2 output plugs, if I needed to do the same thing to a separate line coming out of the breaker box I could.
Ok, that's even easier than auto transfer (DPDT would replace auto transfer switch), which I don't really need. Not looking for redundancy, just options.

So, what I'm reading here, which sounds exactly what I need is that you have the power from the breaker box (that would normally feed the outlets) going to the DPDT switch. You also have the inverter output going to the DPDT switch, and then the output from the DPDT switch is the original line feeding the outlets (assuming there is only one).

So, when on shore power the DPDT switch is set to shore power, when you want to energize the outlets via the inverter, you switch the DPDT to the inverter position and your outlets are now on the inverter. Correct?

Do you have a separate switch turning your inverter on/off so that it doesn't drain the batter when you are off of shore power and don't need the power, or does the whole coach disconnect (usually by steps) kill the power to the inverter as well?
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Old 06-29-2017, 01:10 PM   #5
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Only thing I would caution again is weak or inefficient batteries...know my post was overboard but just venting a little since I'm having issues right now. Just don't be afraid to stand up for yourself when the dealer says it's not possible or you don't need it.
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Old 06-29-2017, 01:14 PM   #6
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Ok, that's even easier than auto transfer (DPDT would replace auto transfer switch), which I don't really need. Not looking for redundancy, just options.

So, what I'm reading here, which sounds exactly what I need is that you have the power from the breaker box (that would normally feed the outlets) going to the DPDT switch. You also have the inverter output going to the DPDT switch, and then the output from the DPDT switch is the original line feeding the outlets (assuming there is only one).

So, when on shore power the DPDT switch is set to shore power, when you want to energize the outlets via the inverter, you switch the DPDT to the inverter position and your outlets are now on the inverter. Correct?

Do you have a separate switch turning your inverter on/off so that it doesn't drain the batter when you are off of shore power and don't need the power, or does the whole coach disconnect (usually by steps) kill the power to the inverter as well?
Yes and yes. The DPDT selects the AC source for the downstream receptacles (Shore Power/Generator or Inverter) and I have a remote on/off switch for the inverter itself.
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Old 06-29-2017, 01:19 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by tnedator View Post

....cut....

Nothing should be a very high draw, doing whole coach is more about convenience and not having to run extension cords to a single or portable inverter.

So, my understanding to accomplish this, I know probably something like a 2000 watt inverter, a transfer switch and possibly a separate sub panel.

I realize there might be a chunk of labor involved, but other than it being labor intensive, is there any reason I can't accomplish what I want without adding new outlets around the coach or being limited to only 2-3 outlets?
Like he said, just takes time (labor) and money.

Dont forget water heater and converter will need to remain on primary panel since you wouldn't want them running off the inverter.

I think a separate panel is probably necessary because of multiple breaker/circuits you'd want to power. An inverter with a built-in transfer switch should make installation simpler.

A wiring diagram of such a system was posted within last year -- can't recall if it was me who posted it. I think it may be from Xantrex website.
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Old 06-29-2017, 01:21 PM   #8
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Something like this:

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Old 06-29-2017, 01:26 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by djcarter View Post
Only thing I would caution again is weak or inefficient batteries...know my post was overboard but just venting a little since I'm having issues right now. Just don't be afraid to stand up for yourself when the dealer says it's not possible or you don't need it.
And to be clear, I'm not attempting to power all coach functions (or even most) via 110v for extended periods. It's more a situation of say boondocking in a parking lot overnight and not being able to run generator and wanting to maybe watch TV for a bit, but more importantly run Cpap overnight (which could be done via 12v, but would require wiring 12v plugs in that location).

It's stuff like that. I'm not trying to run the microwave, make coffee, use a blow dryer, run for days without shore power, etc. I'm just looking for not having to strategically install new 12v plugs and having the flexibility to use inverter based plugs when needed, but with fairly low draw devices or very short term use of higher draw devices.
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Old 06-29-2017, 02:36 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by tnedator View Post
Something like this:

Zactly!

Pics of my installation:
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Old 06-29-2017, 02:43 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Tfryman View Post
Zactly!

Pics of my installation:
Thanks!!! I knew there had to be a simple solution.

It might be that I need to do this after initial pickup, as it might be more than the selling dealer is used to doing, and go to another service place where I can spend some time talking it through.
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Old 06-29-2017, 02:46 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by tnedator View Post
Thanks!!! I knew there had to be a simple solution.

It might be that I need to do this after initial pickup, as it might be more than the selling dealer is used to doing, and go to another service place where I can spend some time talking it through.
The hardest part was removing all the gooey black electrical tape Thor uses to bind the AC cables together so I could trace out the correct line to tap the DPDT switch into.
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Old 06-29-2017, 02:49 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Tfryman View Post
The hardest part was removing all the gooey black electrical tape Thor uses to bind the AC cables together so I could trace out the correct line to tap the DPDT switch into.
I know I could do it conceptually and talk someone through it, but not sure I would have the guts to give it a try vs. paying someone. It's tempting though.
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Old 06-29-2017, 03:49 PM   #14
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I had a fifth wheel I put a 3000 watt inverter charger and installed a sub panel. When on shore power it would charge the batteries when off shore power I had the all plugins,microwave and fireplace it worked great it can be done
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Old 06-29-2017, 04:18 PM   #15
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The drawing takes care of a single circuit - which will only power a few of your outlets... depending on which circuit you pick. (same as the 2-3 outlets the dealer is telling you)
You would need an additional inverter output (could be from same inverter) and additional switch for each additional circuit...
(or much larger capacity switch and subpanel...)
The DPDT switch needs to be rated for the capacity of the circuit - and be of the 'break then connect' type so the 2 inputs are never connected together.

Assuming since your Cpap machine can run on 12v - that it is converting 110 AC to 12vDC anyway...
In my rig, the 12v coach fuse box is under the bed - making adding a 12v outlet directly in the bedroom very simple (added 'cig lighter' outlet and USB outlet on mine...)

If a device runs on 12v DC - the most efficient way to run it is to use the on board 12v supply... Converting DC to AC and back just uses more energy.

There are other reasons to want an inverter - I've addressed them in other ways (12v TV and Blu ray player as example)... but that is personal preference... Certainly anything is possible with unlimited funds.
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Old 06-29-2017, 07:04 PM   #16
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As said "all things are possible" just takes money. If I were needing this setup the VERY last place I would have install it would be my, yours, or anyone else's dealer, most times they mess up more than they TRY to fix. I think I'd find someone with experience in this area, most times the dealer nor the manufacturer could tell you where your existing converter/breaker panel are located on your coach or anyone else's.
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Old 06-29-2017, 07:39 PM   #17
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Based on your description in original post, this is what I'd do. It's about as simple as it gets. This is from Xantrex if I recall correctly but will apply with any brand inverter.

You can take power from an unused 20-Amp breaker or install new one in unused slot, and run it to the new inverter with built-in transfer switch. That way when on generator or shore power, inverter is automatically by-passed.

I'd try to find a place for the AC load panel where wiring from circuits being powered by inverter don't have to be spliced if possible.


Note: If wired like this using a 20-Amp breaker to feed inverter's transfer switch, the total of all outlets downstream connected to inverter will be limited to 20 Amps. Hence, if someone turned on a hairdryer in bathroom and someone else a coffeee maker in kitchen, it will likely trip the breaker feeding the inverter.

Just mentioning this in case you want to be selective on which outlets you connect through inverter.
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Old 07-01-2017, 04:50 AM   #18
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Now that I officially have a deposit down, I want to start making a list of what and when I want to do certain things. I'm probably going to limit some work until after a bit of a shake down period, so I don't confuse add on work with factory defects.

A few questions.

1. I believe this answer is yes, but it's only alluded to in Ed's manual. There is an automatic transfer switch to have the generator start if you lose shore power. Correct? Since I see no mention of an auto mode in the manual, I assume it will maybe be an auto switch on the generator itself.

2. If I wanted to temporarily use small inverter(s) for temp use, are there any 12v plugs in the bedroom area (25.3) or would I have to have 12v plugs installed to use portable inverters (or even the 12v adapters available for things like Cpap machines)? Does the USB plugs in the bedroom output 5v or 12v (or autoswitch to either one)? If 12v, is there a USB to 12v cigarette type plug adapter (even if so, not sure what the amp load issue would be)?

3. If I opted to swap out the inside TVs with 12v varieties, is there an easy way to get them power? How would I go about wiring them in?

4. What about powering direcTV receivers with 12v?
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Old 07-01-2017, 11:24 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by tnedator View Post
Now that I officially have a deposit down, I want to start making a list of what and when I want to do certain things. I'm probably going to limit some work until after a bit of a shake down period, so I don't confuse add on work with factory defects.

A few questions.

1. I believe this answer is yes, but it's only alluded to in Ed's manual. There is an automatic transfer switch to have the generator start if you lose shore power. Correct? Since I see no mention of an auto mode in the manual, I assume it will maybe be an auto switch on the generator itself.

2. If I wanted to temporarily use small inverter(s) for temp use, are there any 12v plugs in the bedroom area (25.3) or would I have to have 12v plugs installed to use portable inverters (or even the 12v adapters available for things like Cpap machines)? Does the USB plugs in the bedroom output 5v or 12v (or autoswitch to either one)? If 12v, is there a USB to 12v cigarette type plug adapter (even if so, not sure what the amp load issue would be)?

3. If I opted to swap out the inside TVs with 12v varieties, is there an easy way to get them power? How would I go about wiring them in?

4. What about powering direcTV receivers with 12v?
1. No auto gen start on the Axis/Vegas units
2. Don't know about the 25.3 but if there are any look by the TV--I believe our 24.1 has a 12V socket near the rear TV
3. See #2
4. Don't know.
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Old 07-01-2017, 12:31 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnedator View Post
Now that I officially have a deposit down, I want to start making a list of what and when I want to do certain things. I'm probably going to limit some work until after a bit of a shake down period, so I don't confuse add on work with factory defects.

A few questions.

1. I believe this answer is yes, but it's only alluded to in Ed's manual. There is an automatic transfer switch to have the generator start if you lose shore power. Correct? Since I see no mention of an auto mode in the manual, I assume it will maybe be an auto switch on the generator itself.

2. If I wanted to temporarily use small inverter(s) for temp use, are there any 12v plugs in the bedroom area (25.3) or would I have to have 12v plugs installed to use portable inverters (or even the 12v adapters available for things like Cpap machines)? Does the USB plugs in the bedroom output 5v or 12v (or autoswitch to either one)? If 12v, is there a USB to 12v cigarette type plug adapter (even if so, not sure what the amp load issue would be)?

3. If I opted to swap out the inside TVs with 12v varieties, is there an easy way to get them power? How would I go about wiring them in?

4. What about powering direcTV receivers with 12v?
1) Answered by Jamie... To clarify there IS an automatic transfer switch - but its function is to switch between and isolate shore power and generator power... There is no AGS - automatic generator start - on Axis/Vegas.

2) Can't speak to if there is one there - but as for inverter vs 12v adapter - look at what ever device you want to power... if it has an external adapter (brick) that outputs 12v DC - then you can directly power the device from 12v - and don't need an inverter...
At least some cpap machines are that way...

USB plugs SHOULD only put out 5v... There are commercial 'step up' adapters that convert to 12v... likely very low current (as you will more than double the draw of the device when stepping 5V to 12v... it ain't 'free'...

3) TVs are very low draw (assuming LCD of course)... I added a 12v tv in bedroom. In my case I didn't have an outlet available - but 12v lighting wires were right there... spliced into those to power the tv and blu ray.

4) See my answer to number 2... in my case, all my home DirecTV equipment (main DVR, wireless bridge, wireless genies) all have a brick delivering 12v DC to the units - so could be directly powered by the RV 12v supply. Verify your own - as no warranties are expressed or implied...
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