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Old 11-29-2019, 06:21 PM   #1
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Whatís next for Axis and Vegas?

Any thoughts on the future of Axis and Vegas motorhomes? Floor plans dwindled down to three, and some of the latest didnít last long before being discontinued. Do you expect a new design, floor plan, or significant revision soon? Maybe for Tampa Super Show in January?

It seems that Axis and Vegas could use major changes to revive their brand, but have no idea what would improve sales. Thoughts?
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Old 11-29-2019, 07:10 PM   #2
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I would have fewer floorplans if constructed well. I love my 2019 27.7 Vegas no problems, breaks, leaks, etc. I made recent modifications but those were my choice. I removed the dinette and added a Varidesk so I can stand or sit. I work out of my RV when traveling.



I like the openness of the Vegas/Axis with the Class A cover over a Class C RV. Very roomy feeling.
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Old 11-29-2019, 07:25 PM   #3
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In addition to only a few floorplans, the floorplans are the same floorplans available on other models of Thor motorhomes and other manufacturers (Sprinter chassis' B+, Class C's and even A's elsewhere).

They must be the most popular floorplans.

It does seem like Thor has stopped experimenting with Axis/Vegas units (e.g. there are Murphy Bed floorplans available on the Sprinter models but not on Axis/Vegas--Murphy Bed's seem to be all the rage these days in smaller coaches. Why no Axis/Vegas Murphy Bed?)

A few thoughts:
  • Sales have dropped on Axis/Vegas lines to the point where it isn't profitable to have many lines? (I hope not, but sometimes reality is a harsh mistress)
  • Perhaps Thor is preparing for the end of the E-Series line? We also know that this should be coming with the introduction of the Transit models (The higher GVWR of newer Transit's spells doom for E-Series chassis)
  • Perhaps something else? Is Thor designing a different small Class A on a different chassis? I hope there is enough sales/activity/talk/etc. to keep them considering a smaller Class A like Axis/Vegas units.
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Old 11-30-2019, 01:01 PM   #4
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Jamie, the Transit Cutaway is indeed being upgraded to 11,000 pounds GVWR, which matches the previous Mercedes Sprinter Stripped Chassis that was used for Winnebago Via and Reyo Class As, but I havenít seen any mention of a Transit Stripped Chassis. I suppose either a new stripped Transit or Sprinter chassis could make for a compact Class A up to about 25 or 26 feet in length.

For now in smaller Stripped Chassis required to build a Class A, Iím only aware of the Ford E-Series which is being upgraded starting in January. If Thor is planning a major redesign or upgrade of Axis and Vegas, perhaps it will be coordinated for concurrent introduction.

There are many new Transit and Sprinter Class Cs and B+, so new Class As in the same size and weight range is conceivable. However, the larger Ford E-Series still easily outnumbers them both for motorhomes, so I would guess Axis/Vegas will remain on Ford E-Series for now. Besides, I donít see the chassis as the main issue affecting decline in sales.
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Old 11-30-2019, 01:11 PM   #5
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Don't you just love the "Silly Season"; when we all know the best way for the Manufacturers to improve their line-ups?
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Old 12-03-2019, 03:53 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
Don't you just love the "Silly Season"; when we all know the best way for the Manufacturers to improve their line-ups?

Bob, I thought silliness was a year-round activity for you.



I donít know what would be successful, but it appears neither does Thor. Out of 9 floor plans only 3 remain.

And since the 24.1 is the only one that has stood the test of time, maybe they should ask themselves whatís different to make it more viable than the next 6 floor plans that followed.

24.1
24.2
25.1
25.2
25.3
25.4
25.5
25.6
27.7
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Old 12-03-2019, 04:04 PM   #7
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... Out of 9 floor plans only 3 remain....

What you typed(above) was indicative of them knowing EXACTLY and taking the actions required.

Winnow and glean the gleen.

Giving people too many choices make them not take action.
Some people if given too many choices try to then combine those choices into something non-existant instead of just buying what's available.
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Old 12-03-2019, 04:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
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Bob, I thought silliness was a year-round activity for you.
I donít know what would be successful, but it appears neither does Thor. Out of 9 floor plans only 3 remain.
It's a thankless and dirty job ; but somebody's got to do it!
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Old 12-03-2019, 04:33 PM   #9
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Could be the novelty of a RUV wore off and nobody wants them anymore.

Recently Winnebago stopped a couple of DP models. The same time Newmar quit making a few floor plans and introduced a Super C. Then, within a couple months the purchase of Newmar by Winnebago was announced.

The landscape is still evolving.
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Old 12-03-2019, 04:55 PM   #10
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Yup! It's shifting around just like it's in the midst of an 11.5 earthquake...

RUV? What is that actually supposed to mean?
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Old 12-03-2019, 05:58 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksface View Post

....cut....

Giving people too many choices make them not take action.
Some people if given too many choices try to then combine those choices into something non-existant instead of just buying what's available.
If they went from offering 7 options at one time to three at present itís not because they got smarter all of a sudden. Thatís not the root problem. The ACE, Windsport and Hurricane still have 6 each. And the Chateau line of Class Cs has 14.


Too many bad choices are a problem, but too many in itself is not; largely because Thor canít control the number of choices buyers have from other manufacturers. If buyers donít like any Thor option, they can buy a Winnebago or Tiffin, and many do.
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Old 12-03-2019, 06:56 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
Yup! It's shifting around just like it's in the midst of an 11.5 earthquake...

RUV? What is that actually supposed to mean?
Thor coined the term for the Axis and Vegas when they first came out. Recreational Utility Vehicle.
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Old 12-03-2019, 07:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance View Post
If they went from offering 7 options at one time to three at present itís not because they got smarter all of a sudden. Thatís not the root problem. The ACE, Windsport and Hurricane still have 6 each. And the Chateau line of Class Cs has 14.
Too many bad choices are a problem, but too many in itself is not; largely because Thor canít control the number of choices buyers have from other manufacturers. If buyers donít like any Thor option, they can buy a Winnebago or Tiffin, and many do.
They could have been looking to "hit the ground running" in this market segment; but eventually found where the demand for them was concentrated...
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Old 12-09-2019, 03:49 PM   #14
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Thor to manufacture EHG products in NA

Thor CEO Martin keeps mentioning that they are working towards manufacturing Hymer products in North America, and will release additional details shortly. Perhaps some prototypes at Tampa Super Show may be possible?

My question is whether the first wave will be trailers, vans, Class Cs, or Class As? When Hymer purchased RoadTrek they started with vans and then trailers. Now under Thor ownership, with much greater available resources, could they start building small and light Euro-style As and Cs also? Iím not sure it would be wise to use Axis/Vegas name on an existing Hymer Class-A line, but I can see the possibility of Hymer engineering and design influence in developing new Axis/Vegas floorplans and or complete motorhome update.

Iím looking forward to see what if anything happens with compact Class As, and whether Axis/Vegas RUVs are involved at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Article

Integration Update

Martin commented, ďOur integration is advancing as planned and we are making progress in a number of areas. We are already leveraging our global supply chain relationships to enhance our material spend and are also leveraging efficiencies across our global operations. Additionally, our international product transfer team is aggressively developing a plan to manufacture EHG products in North America and we expect to release additional details regarding their efforts shortly.Ē
https://rvbusiness.com/thor-1q-sales...y-ehg-revenue/
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Old 12-09-2019, 04:16 PM   #15
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The 2016 24.1 Vegas has worked great for us overall. The only minor complaint is small shower. The e450 gives us a great deal of towing flexibility. The cargo capacity is also a major plus. If it had only been available on e350 chassis we would have had to go much larger to get GCVW we need along with overall ease of use.

Going on 4 years now and still impressed with overall utility and ease of use.
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Old 12-09-2019, 04:32 PM   #16
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I 2nd that!
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Old 12-09-2019, 05:23 PM   #17
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I understand, but are you guys the rule or the exception?

How many Axis/Vegas owners actually tow more than a toad? Many I see have nothing behind, and the rest a car. Iíd bet most can get by fine with 5,000-pound tow capacity. Need to tow a heavy race car trailer or heavy boat, etc. must be a statistical abnormality which shouldnít limit design. Those few can always buy bigger F-53 motorhome.

And for what itís worth, even Single-Rear-Wheel E-350 can tow up to 10,000 pounds if not loaded down, so the solution can be to make motorhome beefier (E-450) or make them lighter.

If Thor (with Hymer engineering help) can get weight of smaller Class As on E-350 chassis under 10,000 pounds loaded, that leaves over 8,000 pounds for towing.

All we have to do is look at how many Sprinter Class As and Cs have been built on 11,030-pound chassis to see there is a market for that size rig. For the vast majority of buyers in the 24~26 foot range, 12,500-pound GVWR should be plenty if motorhome is built on a diet.
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Old 12-09-2019, 06:09 PM   #18
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Is this what you think: or what you hope?

I would almost be "almost sure"; that Thor has a fair amount of time and effort invested in market research.
If they saw a perceived "hole in the product line": they would have filled it.
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Old 12-09-2019, 07:54 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
Is this what you think: or what you hope?

I would almost be "almost sure"; that Thor has a fair amount of time and effort invested in market research.
If they saw a perceived "hole in the product line": they would have filled it.

And what exactly do you think they are doing now?

Their experts got future trends wrong, the market has been changing for a few years, and now Thor is scrambling to ďfill a hole in the product lineĒ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Article

North American Motorized RVs

North American motorized RV sales were $415.9 million for the first quarter compared to $431.2 million in the prior-year period. The decrease in motorized sales was primarily driven by a shift in product mix towards lower-priced products.

I ďthinkĒ Thor, like most large companies, are slow to change. Smaller, more nimble companies, adapt to market swings faster.

I ďhopeĒ Thor will build a Hymer-size Class A in USA. Whether they call it an Axis or Hymer doesnít matter to me as long as it has better design and build quality. However, I donít expect this to happen.
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Old 12-09-2019, 08:26 PM   #20
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You've confused the terms: "lower priced", and "smaller".
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