Why do we accept this? New 2020 Venetian L40

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

Early in my RV life I learned that a good dealer is as important and some cases more important than the brand and model you chose.
Just an example, the 2021 Hurricane 34R that we just bought has only 260 miles but my dealer (which is a small local family owned dealer from which this is the third unit that I bought from them) found 42 (!) items to be fixed...
Some items are small but some need the equipment and expertise the dealer have to fix. These are 42 items that I'll not have to deal with.


Bottom line, find a dealer that is willing to work the extra mile to have the coach right.

I think a good dealer may be a function or derivative of the year, brand, & model chose. Some people buy RVs at rock bottom price that the dealers must unload and others buy newer models that bring clearly better profit for Dealer. Any dealer will tell you they treat honeymooners differently and the honeymooners that bought coach or willing to buy coach with greater margins will command better proactive support. i.e. a year or two from now, somebody will buy the same 2021 model you have with similar or worse issues given the wear & tear of abuse trying to sell for almost 2 years; The same dealer may not be as willing to spend all of the up front labor as they may have done when profit was greater. i.e they may cleaned and prep ready a specific coach several times for sales that didn't happen. I am not justifying for some Dealers, but point out how a prospective owner may approach a purchase for new coach. You have to inspect and verify everything so you are onboard with what may not be working opr as perfect as you like. To your point, if new owner is not willing "to take the time to work the extra mile to have the coach right"; there will always be customers unsatisfied, because it is foolish to believe even with focus on quality that every coach will be defect free. The Mfg know this; so they depend on the dealer to find and fix items they notice before the sale and that the customer will have verified it was all in good condition when they do the PDI and take delivery. I think the flaw is that not all prospective customers know this before they buy.

[ducksface]

Treatment of buyers:
We bought our 2 month old used unit 2500 miles away.
We walked into our local cw with 20 Tacos from taco bell.
'just wanted to stop by to say thanks for being here and to show we're not the normal whiners you get in here. My slide isn't working right. Can you take a look?'
Lots of laughs,
Parts ordered from Thor and overnighted. (fender flare fell off on that damn i15 south of slc, screen plastic retainers, lost end cap on awning)
Picked it up six days later and had four $6 buck Pizza hut pizzas with us.
Took it back to have the inverter installed. 20 McDonald's spicy chicken sandwiches.

We were greeted at the rv, hands grabbed and shook, told we were the bright spot in the service departments day, got a $200 discount and lots of smiles and happy from them... And us.
Three guys were working on it stuffing that big inverter behind the cabinets and hooking up the ags.

They closed down my cw.
I have been told it had the worst reputation and lowest sales of all cw's.

[Bob Denman]

Ducky,
If you need to buy any insurance here in New York: I like Krispy Kreme...

[bigben]

Been doing this a while, you gotta be your own best advocate. When I work with someone for repairs (dealer, local shop, etc), I make sure I know the issue, research the issue and understand what needs to be fixed. We've had our same coach for 6 years and 67k miles. Unfortunately, we are less able to keep to our vagabond ways but our coach is home while we fix some issues.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by ducksface

They closed down my cw.
I have been told it had the worst reputation and lowest sales of all cw's.

Of course they closed it down, once you have served the Duck, what else can a dealer really expect to do

I had to find a dealer 1500 miles away from where I bought. Had Winnebago called them first and then I go down for a visit. Had simple repairs and when I left I got on Google review and just went crazy thanking them and promoting their service. Got a call and note from GM thanking me...!!! I hadn't paid a penny to them. I actually felt bad, so I had to think of something where I could pay them, so I had them install the AGS and they charged me the rate as if I bought from them.

When my warranty is over, I have 3 other places that wish to service my RV, one of which is a CW. Just got to get past this covid 19 stuff to fairly access service and turn around because right now all bets are off as many dealerships are swamped and have long waits for service.

[jdurnwald]

I know this isn’t exactly related to the OP and I feel for his situation. Being in the software business, I know that buying a version 1.0 of a new product is a risky endeavor. The are compromises and patches that are made just to get a release out the door. Same goes for durable goods like cars, TV’s, and RV’s. I generally will buy a later year of a model that has been patched, updated, and tuned over time and is still being actively produced by the manufacturer. Sometimes this means forgoing some new whiz bang feature, but I generally feel I get a higher quality product. While there still is a bit of luck involved especially with something as complex as a house on wheels, my 2020 24.1 has certainly exceeded my expectations of quality.

At the end of the day, it is still “buyer beware”.

[Judge]

I'm in software as well so I completely get what you are saying....

However, Thor has built Super C's for several years. They introduced the "new" models of Magnitude and Omni in 2020 but in the end they are very similar to the previous Thor Four Winds Super C's they built on the Ford F-550 chassis. You could actually consider the Omni and Magnitude to be version 2.0 or even 3.0.

Unfortunately, Thor didn't make significant improvements in quality and design from version 1.0 to the current versions. Some of the same problems of the earlier versions are appearing in the newer versions.

But as you said.... it is buyer be ware.

[jdurnwald]

Originally Posted by Judge

I'm in software as well so I completely get what you are saying....

However, Thor has built Super C's for several years. They introduced the "new" models of Magnitude and Omni in 2020 but in the end they are very similar to the previous Thor Four Winds Super C's they built on the Ford F-550 chassis. You could actually consider the Omni and Magnitude to be version 2.0 or even 3.0.

Unfortunately, Thor didn't make significant improvements in quality and design from version 1.0 to the current versions. Some of the same problems of the earlier versions are appearing in the newer versions.

But as you said.... it is buyer be ware.

Fair enough. At least the issues are known and documented - if only on a forum and you can make an informed decision based on your tolerance. They are the “devil you know” versus being on the “bleeding edge”.

[MLP]

Originally Posted by TurnerFam

We also had a laundry list of items when we first bought our Palazzo, at a mega-dealer in TEXAS - but, honestly, with several overnights in their 'full-hookup' covered sites, they took care of EVERY ONE OF THEM before we left, and without hesitation or argument or someone making us feel as though we were 'asking for something special'... they just did it. I would go back there in a heartbeat to do it again.

I wish great dealers would or could be listed so that others could use their well deserved sales and service. It would be a great help to many. My dealer has been fantastic on repair of the large slide on my extended warranty. THOR Palazzo 33.2. They made a simple mistake and are eating a lot of money fixing it on their dime. The repair came with a ninety day guarantee after the expensive fix that they waved the deductible on. It took a lot of time do to Covid-19 to get it repaired the first time. The dealer is making it right by contacting THOR engineering for the proper fix. The delay was over two and a half weeks, but they now have the proper instructions for the repair. Parts will be ordered this week. The fix is to replace the columns on both sides of the slide. I was like "you have to do what %$#@*&!!!". But they simply said we will make it right, get you your RV ASAP, and it will not cost you anything. We stand by our guarantee. This is how all RV dealers should be.

[Judge]

So the DW was reading this morning that the RV industry in Indiana is forgoing their employee drug testing policies because they cannot get enough of workers to meet demand.

What do you think will happen with the quality of the 2021 / 2022 models rolling off the lines now? I didn't think quality and workmanship could get worse... but I may be wrong!

[Bob Denman]

Used syringes will be found in the walls...

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Used syringes will be found in the walls...

Oh no, you don't think Thor would charge more for the paraphernalia They might be able to market it as an included Mouse Deterrent Device (MDD) on a few select coaches

My favorite TMC with Drug Testing defect that I noticed in a few ACE 29.3 & Windsport 27Bs (at least a few that I was trying to buy anyway)


Defect: Staples protruding in the wall panels
The TMC or Dealer Fix: Grinding the staples down; and thus putting spot or blemishes around where the staples were. At the right angle with light those patches / spots were an eyesore

[Bob Denman]

It should amzae us: but it doesn't anymore!

[lwmcguire]

Quality control, worker self esteem, accountability, and the list goes on isn't just a Thor problem

QA could be improved, no one can argue that

[PS Cruisign]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

I get all that; I'm sorry that you're going through this very tough time riught now...

But when you're laying down a HuGe pile of money for something: it often helps to have along a second set of "knowledgeable eyeballs"; to help get you through the overwhelming experience.
Good luck to you and your Wife!

Bob,
We have been sailors for 20 years and if you buy a boat that floats on salt water, you get it professionally surveyed. The hull and the engine. They are thorough and catch most things. Best grand plus or minus a couple hundred you can spend. This is AFTER you have a contract. You can walk away.

Have you heard of any of that in the RV world? Just wondering. I am having a hard time with the story in this thread. Almost surreal what they accepted.

Cheers

[Bob Denman]

We've got a fella up here by us, who will accompany a prospective buyer on a "hunting trip". He brings along a pretty hefty batch of tools and testers, and will spend half a day putting an RV under a very watchful eye. It costs $500, and seems well worth it.

[Laco]

RV manufactures are driven by their bottom line. They produce and sell as many units as they possibly can, and have found that the economics work much better for them, if they use minimum wage workers on the assembly line to get them assembled as quickly as they can, and let the dealer repair the assembly defects, as they are discovered. The dealers are reimbursed for repair, but only a fraction of what they would charge, if you brought it in for repairs out of warrantee. If RV manufactures used highly skilled assembly workers, and inspected and repaired every unit prior to delivery, the cost of RV's would be so high, they wouldn't sell.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Laco

RV manufactures are driven by their bottom line. They produce and sell as many units as they possibly can, and have found that the economics work much better for them, if they use minimum wage workers on the assembly line to get them assembled as quickly as they can, and let the dealer repair the assembly defects, as they are discovered. The dealers are reimbursed for repair, but only a fraction of what they would charge, if you brought it in for repairs out of warrantee. If RV manufactures used highly skilled assembly workers, and inspected and repaired every unit prior to delivery, the cost of RV's would be so high, they wouldn't sell.

I would actually dispute that the mfg's don't want to use highly skilled workers, or specifically avoid them in order to get cost lower. If you were to study quality and manufacturing it will not be long before you realize that quality defects are 80% controlled by management. There are three types of defects.... lack of technique, inadvertent, and willful. Lack of technique is 100% on management, the other two are exceptions. Most mfgs are in that Indiana area to leverage skill the same skilled labor.

What TMC and other RV Mfg need is transformation as to what happened at Harley Davidson, Toyota and similar. I don't know the metrics, but I would have to believe that most TMC RVs are actually pretty good for their market?, otherwise they would be one of the largest RV Mfgs. I didn't buy a Thor because the 2 or 3 I happened to look at did not pass my PDI; but I am sure there were 100s of others that would have.

I don't see how an owner can complain if they buy something without looking at it, and when they do TMC is a phone call away. They answer their phones and if you have warranty issues they take care of it.

[lwmcguire]

I am sure most of you have seen the younger work force and no not including everyone in that group

We don't have a lot of workers with good skill sets available

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by lwmcguire

...We don't have a lot of workers with good skill sets available

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1t6fNnLOfo