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Old 07-21-2020, 02:02 AM   #1
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Venetian L40
State: California
Posts: 5
THOR #19730
Why do we accept this? New 2020 Venetian L40

Coach defects.
Front driver headlamp not mounted properly. Recessed way back in the hole and wobbles. Nothing like passenger side.
Front diamond shield ripped and scuffed
Entry door weather stripping ripped and coming off.
Entry door has big line of fisheye in the black paint.
Silver strip paint either did not get good coverage or has been buffed through.
Passenger dinette slide seal is falling off on outside plastic under slide shattered
Rear bedroom slide stops when extended with about 1” of the black line showing at the top and 2” showing at the bottom. All
Other are straight 2” showing.
The exterior corner pieces have fallen off of 2 of the slides.
Cargo bay doors have chips on the edges and dents on the inside.
Trim around driver sliding window started to fall off and flap in the wind. Had to secure it with blue tape so it wouldn’t get ripped off by the wind.
Rear splash shield that came on the coach fell off one side because the eye bolt that was holding it fell out and was dragging behind the coach going down the freeway.
Numerous scratches and chips in the exterior paint.
Valve stem On back inside rim wore through caused a leak due to improperly installed
Cab AC not blowing any cold air.
Exterior mirror controls work sometimes.
Safety cameras only work for the first 5 minutes then no longer come on. Just black screen.
When the turn signal is tuned on the stereo will start to play.
When phone is plugged into the usb on the dash it shows an error on the Garmin screen saying USB over loaded. Even when I unplug it.
Front rooftop AC is not working.
Big slide on drivers side has huge gaps when extended and is 1/2” from the wall at the bottom and 1 1/2” at the top.
Trim on bottom of cabinet on same slide falling off.
Major light coming in around several
Of the slides. Large enough to allow flying insect into the coach.
Couch in the slide seems to be missing bolts and flops all around on one side.
Dinette screws were missing or stripped and table was hanging crooked and rattling badly.
Plugs are not attached on dinette simply screwed into the vinyl fabric of the seat.
Numerous chips in the tile and the extra tiles that are included are ones that are all chipped worse then the ones inside.
Floor tiles are extremely uneven and big smudges of grout are now stuck on the tile because it was not cleaned when laid.
Refrigerator has styrofoam pieces all stuck behind the trim on the side of the refrigerator and the fan on the inside makes a rattling noise.
The control panel shows the grey tank and black tanks at zero percent yet we have used them for 3 days and when dumped had plenty in the tanks.
Both pocket doors are split at the bottom and the slide guides have come out of the wood.
The chair rail in the hall way had the end trim piece fall off onto the floor.
Bedroom cabinet has screws missing from the bracket rail and shelves will just fall down.
Laundry closet louvers were not mounted flush in the opening and had nail shot into thin air not hitting the wood of the louvers.
Bathroom cabinet shelves are missing trim pieces and are not attached in places because the nails missed.
Bedroom large closet sliding doors have bent magnets and the handle is bent over because it appears someone did not make sure it was secure. Also the edge of the door is badly dented because of when it hit so hard it bent the handle.
I HAVE MORE!
Had the coach for 14 days now
I have pictures of everything
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Old 07-21-2020, 02:10 AM   #2
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With respect, why did you accept delivery before correcting the flaws?
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Old 07-21-2020, 02:11 AM   #3
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THOR #1469
A lot of those items had to be there at delivery. Why did you accept it?
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Old 07-21-2020, 02:18 AM   #4
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THOR #7035
"We" didn't accept it, you did. Did you not do a walk-through before you signed the acceptance papers?
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Old 07-21-2020, 02:56 AM   #5
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Model: 2018 24.1 AXISSIXxSIX
State: Arizona
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THOR #13932
Sell it.
It will never be worth more than it is today.
You can lose thousands today or tens of thousands a year from now.
It isn't making you happy.
Work on being happy.

And shouldn't we date for a while before you just, well, what you just did on this, our first encounter?
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Old 07-21-2020, 03:37 AM   #6
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THOR #11781
I found a lot to complain about when my coach was new but nowhere near your list of complaints. If mine had that many defects I would not have purchased the thing.
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Old 07-21-2020, 05:09 AM   #7
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Brand: Redwood
State: Texas
Posts: 1,176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrollco View Post
Coach defects.
Front driver headlamp not mounted properly. Recessed way back in the hole and wobbles. Nothing like passenger side.
Front diamond shield ripped and scuffed
Entry door weather stripping ripped and coming off.
Entry door has big line of fisheye in the black paint.
Silver strip paint either did not get good coverage or has been buffed through.
Passenger dinette slide seal is falling off on outside plastic under slide shattered
Rear bedroom slide stops when extended with about 1” of the black line showing at the top and 2” showing at the bottom. All
Other are straight 2” showing.
The exterior corner pieces have fallen off of 2 of the slides.
Cargo bay doors have chips on the edges and dents on the inside.
Trim around driver sliding window started to fall off and flap in the wind. Had to secure it with blue tape so it wouldn’t get ripped off by the wind.
Rear splash shield that came on the coach fell off one side because the eye bolt that was holding it fell out and was dragging behind the coach going down the freeway.
Numerous scratches and chips in the exterior paint.
Valve stem On back inside rim wore through caused a leak due to improperly installed
Cab AC not blowing any cold air.
Exterior mirror controls work sometimes.
Safety cameras only work for the first 5 minutes then no longer come on. Just black screen.
When the turn signal is tuned on the stereo will start to play.
When phone is plugged into the usb on the dash it shows an error on the Garmin screen saying USB over loaded. Even when I unplug it.
Front rooftop AC is not working.
Big slide on drivers side has huge gaps when extended and is 1/2” from the wall at the bottom and 1 1/2” at the top.
Trim on bottom of cabinet on same slide falling off.
Major light coming in around several
Of the slides. Large enough to allow flying insect into the coach.
Couch in the slide seems to be missing bolts and flops all around on one side.
Dinette screws were missing or stripped and table was hanging crooked and rattling badly.
Plugs are not attached on dinette simply screwed into the vinyl fabric of the seat.
Numerous chips in the tile and the extra tiles that are included are ones that are all chipped worse then the ones inside.
Floor tiles are extremely uneven and big smudges of grout are now stuck on the tile because it was not cleaned when laid.
Refrigerator has styrofoam pieces all stuck behind the trim on the side of the refrigerator and the fan on the inside makes a rattling noise.
The control panel shows the grey tank and black tanks at zero percent yet we have used them for 3 days and when dumped had plenty in the tanks.
Both pocket doors are split at the bottom and the slide guides have come out of the wood.
The chair rail in the hall way had the end trim piece fall off onto the floor.
Bedroom cabinet has screws missing from the bracket rail and shelves will just fall down.
Laundry closet louvers were not mounted flush in the opening and had nail shot into thin air not hitting the wood of the louvers.
Bathroom cabinet shelves are missing trim pieces and are not attached in places because the nails missed.
Bedroom large closet sliding doors have bent magnets and the handle is bent over because it appears someone did not make sure it was secure. Also the edge of the door is badly dented because of when it hit so hard it bent the handle.
I HAVE MORE!
Had the coach for 14 days now
I have pictures of everything
Only you can answer the question in the title of this post, WHY DID YOU?????????
You should've NEVER signed the paperwork til ALL of this was taken care of by your dealer. Unfortunately now it's yours & unless you have a fantastic dealer some of those may still be there til who knows when. With all the issues you've listed I'd have to say that I'm sorry you may be SOL 'cause your dealer SUCKS or most of those would've/should've been taken care by them BEFORE it ever went on the lot for sale, that's their job.
You should print those pictures of everything & present them to your dealer not here if you are expecting something to be done about those issues.
Check the bottom of this page at the disclaimer, NO ONE from Thor or your dealer is monitoring this forum so they will never know til you contact them.
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Old 07-21-2020, 07:13 AM   #8
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Model: Aria 4000
State: Utah
Posts: 231
THOR #15943
Don't be too judgemental, folks. Because like most buyers anxious to complete the deal, the dealer will say "...make a list and we'll take care of it later". Our dealer is still on the hook for the repairs they already flubbed once when ours went in for the warranty work last Fall/Winter(4 months of time, and still not there). Going back this off season for Round 2.
GVP
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Old 07-21-2020, 08:47 AM   #9
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Model: 2020 Magnitude SV34
State: Florida
Posts: 1,212
THOR #12751
I believe the OP's question is rhetorical........

There are two industries that charge a fair amount of money for a product / service.... they talk a good game...... but they get away with providing the consumer with an inferior product / service on a fairly regular basis.

Those industries are airlines and RV manufacturers / dealers.

Think about what both industries get away with in terms of quality and service. It is because "we" the consumer may complain a bit but we do not hold them accountable. As a result, they can continue to operate the way they do.

The airlines cancel a flight, they will get you another one when they can find you a seat even if it means you miss your business meeting, start of your vacation, etc. Something comes up, you get sick, etc. and you can't take your flight, they keep your money. Ultimately... "we" need the airlines more than they need the individual.

RV manufacturers build coaches without the same quality control standards the automobile industry follows. They use cheap and unskilled labor and because of no real QC process, no two coaches are ever identical in terms of construction quality. As a result, some coaches have more issues than others.... some have more serious issues..... but in the end they all have issues.

Why does this happen? Because "we" let it. Unlike an automobile, RV's are luxury items.... they are not a necessity like an automobile that you need in order to get to work, get to the doctors, get to the grocery store, etc.

We want an RV to enjoy.... we like the life style.... we like the freedom. And as a result, "we" need the RV manufacturers / dealers more than they need us. In the end, they live by the old adage.... a sucker is born every minute. They do the minimum amount necessary to build and sell the product and they promise they will take care of you.

Until "we" collectively say that we have had enough and stop purchasing their inferior products and putting up with their inferior service, this is the way it will be.

The problem is that most of us don't want to spend $500,000 or more and even then.... you are not guaranteed a coach without any issues.

I'm dealing with what could be a fairly serious structural problem with a 2020 Magnitude myself. This is not my first coach so I knew to look closely at everything and realize their will be issues that needed to be addressed.... already seen and unseen.... once I drove it off the lot. But a structural problem was something I didn't foresee, expect or plan for after only 9 months of ownership and about 4500 miles.

In the end I suspect my problem will the result of everything I outlined above. If so, you do have to ponder the OP's original question...

Why do "we" accept this?
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Old 07-21-2020, 11:50 AM   #10
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Model: 2020 Windsport 35M
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THOR #18656
I'm in!!! LOL
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Old 07-21-2020, 12:22 PM   #11
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Model: Hurricane 31D
State: Virginia
Posts: 129
THOR #5638
Quote:
Originally Posted by GVP-The Boxcar Children View Post
Don't be too judgemental, folks. Because like most buyers anxious to complete the deal, the dealer will say "...make a list and we'll take care of it later". Our dealer is still on the hook for the repairs they already flubbed once when ours went in for the warranty work last Fall/Winter(4 months of time, and still not there). Going back this off season for Round 2.
GVP
Spot on. At delivery all we see is the shinny new to us coach and our plans for the coming weekend while being blind to the flaws.
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Old 07-21-2020, 01:35 PM   #12
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Model: Palazzo 33.3 34'bunkhouse
State: Georgia
Posts: 2,392
THOR #4735
the truth is, no matter how much you 'look' when you're at the dealer's lot, and sometimes even with a few days 'on the lot' to try it out before leaving, some things will just not reveal themselves UNTIL you have traveled a good ways and had many nights with the coach - to try out ALL the systems in every way...

that's what the WARRANTY is for. No, it's not fun, and yes, some will get a fairly 'good' coach from the get go, but some will really struggle with what seems like such a HUGE purchase to have 'so many' problems from the outset.

It's not a matter of whether 'we' let this happen, as if all of us are someone going to a dealer and buying a coach at the very same time, but it's not something ANY OF US do on anywhere of a 'frequent' basis - yes, you 'expect' it to be perfect, but it's built by humans, and humans are not perfect, even when they really WANT to be.

If the dealer can not, or will not, handle all your issues, contact the FACTORY/THOR and make sure that you are polite, but FIRM, that you will want them to pick it up and take it all the way back to their factory in Wakarusa for repairs, otherwise.


Been there, done that.
I've delivered no less than TWO coaches back to FLEETWOOD and THOR for the very same reasons - the buyer was not satisfied with why their dealer could not 'handle' all the work that was required to bring it up to acceptable 'brand new' condition, as they bought it - I was the lucky transport driver that got to 'hear' those complaints from those customers when I picked up their 'new' coach to get it back to the factories. : /

We also had a laundry list of items when we first bought our Palazzo, at a mega-dealer in TEXAS - but, honestly, with several overnights in their 'full-hookup' covered sites, they took care of EVERY ONE OF THEM before we left, and without hesitation or argument or someone making us feel as though we were 'asking for something special'... they just did it. I would go back there in a heartbeat to do it again.
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Old 07-21-2020, 01:56 PM   #13
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[QUOTE=TurnerFam;

We also had a laundry list of items when we first bought our Palazzo, at a mega-dealer in TEXAS - but, honestly, with several overnights in their 'full-hookup' covered sites, they took care of EVERY ONE OF THEM before we left, and without hesitation or argument or someone making us feel as though we were 'asking for something special'... they just did it. I would go back there in a heartbeat to do it again.[/QUOTE]

We took delivery beside the maintenance center in the MHSRV delivery barn. We were there for 28 hours living in the coach. Fortunately, we found nothing wrong with the coach, but it was nice to grab a delivery tech anytime I had a question about the operation of the coach. The salesman and a delivery tech even rode with us to the dump station to supervise me emptying the tanks before we left on the 660 mile trip home. Four years later the only items than ceased to work were the power ports on the dash (blown fuse - replaced under warranty), patio awning lights going dim (owner left the lights on while awning was retracted - replaced under warranty) and no electric heat to the water heater (fused wire nut - wire nut replaced with a wire splice). All items were fixed by MHSRV 7 months after purchase in 45 minutes stop while we and the two cats stayed in the delivery barn office. A completely trouble free coach for 28,000 miles.
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Old 07-21-2020, 01:58 PM   #14
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Model: Accolade 37TS
State: Virginia
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THOR #1469
I am not going to give the manufacturers and dealers a pass on poor workmanship because it is there. I will not say there is poor quality until the RV industry creates and adopts a published quality standard that outline quality control measure that must be met. That standard does not exist so there cannot be poor quality control at this time.

I also will not give owners that accept a coach full of defects based on a statement made by the dealer a pass. They bought the coach, they signed a piece of paper stating they had the opportunity to adequately inspect the coach and take the coach for a test drive. That is part of the warranty documentation that is signed at delivery.

IMHO, there is no excuse for someone to accept delivery of a coach full of defects that are visible or would be visible if a semi-good PDI were performed and then come onto a forum and complain about why "we" accept something the way it is. We didn't accept anything, they created their problem themself and they accepted the coach in the manner it is, "we" didn't accept anything.

We, the DW and myself, walked away for the dealer twice with our current coach because it was not ready for delivery and did not pass our PDI. For one issue we had to have a teleconference with Entegra and the dealer before we agreed to accept delivery. We also demanded a front end alignment and wheel balancing after the test drive and the invoice for the completed service provided at delivery. Even then, we missed the hot water heater not working on electric because I did not ask for the water heater to be drained and switched over to electric. That is my fault for not catching that and since the units come to dealers winterized I will not "overly" fault the dealer for not catching the problem.

Issues and problems may arise after the rig has been delivered. These issues may be wear and tear related, may be caused by third party components or may be caused by unseen poor workmanship. This issues are an annoyance but slightly understandable due to a rig being driven or pulled over some less than par road surfaces at highway speeds. Ever heard of a house mover going down the road at 55 mph with a house on a trailer? Think about it.

As to the complaints about materials and components, the materials such as wood, fabric and components did not change from the time the rig was viewed on the dealer lot and it was delivered. The blind and curtains didn't change, the mattress didn't change and the flooring material was still the same. If you don't like the quality of materials why did you buy the rig?

As long as buyers accept delivery of improperly prepared RVs from dealers and do not hold the dealers responsible before accepting delivery this issue will continue. We, the DW and myself, bought all our rigs from dealers, we did not buy them from the RV manufacturers. In the last 11 years we bought 3 motorhomes and never accepted delivery after the initial PDI. There was always something that had to be corrected. Twice the issues were taken care of during lunch but with the Accolade it took almost a week.

Bottom line; IMO there is a lot of personal responsibility that goes into the purchase of an RV. That responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of the buyer and not on the collective group of RV owners. We as a collective do not accept a sub-standard unit, the individual themselves does that all on their own. If they want assist will issues fine, but don't blame "we" for accepting your motorhome in the condition it is in. You did that all by yourself without the advice or consent of the collective.

End of soap box.
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Old 07-21-2020, 02:10 PM   #15
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Model: Newmar Bay Star Sport 300
State: Alabama
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THOR #6826
And, RVs are what they are. You can wish and hope and say they “should be” better, but they aren’t. I understand a newcomer being surprised by this but many of us are repeat buyers and we should know it by now. If you are not “handy” or willing to go through a long and tedious warranty process with frequent repairs and maintenance for the life of the coach then just possibly RVing isn’t for you. Some folks get really mad and want to hold the manufacturers feet to the fire and some assume that because it was expensive it should be perfect. But at the end of the day it is supposed to be “recreational” so it’s really helpful to make peace with reality and go with the flow.
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Old 07-21-2020, 02:14 PM   #16
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Model: Venetian L40
State: California
Posts: 5
THOR #19730
It seems to be a industry problem.

You are correct. The dealer sucks. The industry is as sleazy as they come.
That is why I ask why do We accept this.
My situation is very unique and the dealer saw that.
I needed a way to get my wife from California To Florida for the Medical trial she is doing without putting her or I in any undue exposure situation.
She has Major Autoimmune problems not to mention I am a disabled Former Marine that due to the service injury I am missing ribs and have reduced lung capacity.
Politics aside Covid is not something we are willing to risk our life for.

We decided the safest way to do this was to be self contained In a coach.

Having never owned a coach before we started looking for something close by. Closest we could find was 4.5 hours south of us.

After speaking on the phone with the salesman who was also a former marine he assured me that they have several former marines working there and I could rest assured they had my back. Marines take care of there own he says. HAHAHAHA Mistake number one.

We negotiated a price and agreed to drive down to finalize paperwork and take the coach home. We were also told they understood our reluctance to spend a lot of time at the dealership because of our issues and that they would make sure they followed all guidelines to lesson our worries.

We made the trip arrived and it was apparent that they were not following any guidelines for anyone’s safety. We go into the finance office and meet the next guy that tells us I also was in the marine corp your in good hands.

Well after being in the little office for 30 minutes with people just walking in and out laughing and joking with no protection my wife tells him tell me where to sign I have to get out of here Ill wait in the car.

She signed what she had to and went back to the car while I dealt with the upscale bullcrap.

I get through that process and finally am handed off to a different guy who takes me to the coach.
I tell him this is our first coach and would like a complete run down of the coach and its systems.
He smiles and says well this is the first time I have been in this model as well. Needless to say the walkthrough was a joke.
I did make note of some of the obvious things I saw at that point but not really knowing the things to look for I did not see everything.

We finally are given the keys and start the coach. They don’t have time for a road test. Having driven many large pieces of Equipment in my life I say ok. Well the first thing I see is the check engine light is on. I ask and they tell me oh its nothing just need to drive it and it will reset. Like the car if you didn’t get the gas cap on tight.

Well it made it 6 blocks and went into limp mode.

Dealer comes and gets the coach and takes it back to the lot. I am told it has to go to Freightliner. I say ok and ask that while they have it can they take care of the problems I had noticed. They say “sure no problem”

So we drive back home. The week turned into 10 days and they know time is running short for us to get on the road. I ask if it can be delivered so we do not have to waste another day driving down and back. They say sure.

Time comes to have the coach delivered and during the inspection they find 3 rear tires have cuts on the sidewalls and have to be replaced. Where they there when they sent us off the lot? The person who found the issue was not there the day they sent us off the lot.

The coach finally arrives at our house and the driver gets out sweating horribly. He says the AC does not work just to let you know. Oh and don’t mind the blue tape all over the window I was trying to hold the window trim on after it started flapping halfway here.

He leaves and we start to go over the coach. And we find all sorts of things that were not obvious when I got my quick walkthrough.

Many of these items have come up as we have made our way to Florida.
The seals and the cracked plastic below the slide was not there when I first saw the coach. Many of these items have come up during the trip.

I am not a stranger to fixing things. But I am also not a stranger to delivering a quality product to start with.
I am the Owner/CEO of a Construction company that has been in business for a long time. If I allowed any of my 85 employees to do work of this caliber I would have been out of business a long time ago.

Both my wife and I have our off shore Captains license and have spent many hours at the helm of different vessels. Including a transatlantic last year on a 40 ft Cat. 21 days across.

I spent the money I did because I believe you get what you pay for. Unfortunately that does not seem to be the case in the RV industry.

We love our coach but we don’t love the issues.

The thought of spending as much as a small investment property on a depreciating asset to have it fall apart in the first month is just unfathomable.

This thread shows exactly what I am saying. It seems to just be accepted. So I get it why should they change?

If you purchased a new home from me and problems came up that were quality and build issues. I would make sure that they were immediately addressed and the people who signed off on it would have hell to pay.

So my question again is Why do “We” accept this.

I have purposely left out names and not posted on general social media site about this because I believe that a business should have the ability to correct any issues prior to being slammed in what sometimes can be a very one sided platform.

The thought of taking my coach back to the dealer who helped in this shell game is horrifying.

Not to mention the huge amount of time I will be without the coach while they do who knows what to correct the issues.

All I want is the coach to be properly repaired and safe to drive down the road. Is that asking to much?
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Old 07-21-2020, 02:30 PM   #17
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Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 15,661
THOR #8860
I get all that; I'm sorry that you're going through this very tough time riught now...

But when you're laying down a HuGe pile of money for something: it often helps to have along a second set of "knowledgeable eyeballs"; to help get you through the overwhelming experience.
Good luck to you and your Wife!
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Old 07-21-2020, 03:37 PM   #18
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Model: Venetian L40
State: California
Posts: 5
THOR #19730
Not saying I don’t own some of the issues

I Will be the first to admit that my lack of research in this purchase was my downfall. Ill own that all day. But sometimes when we are trying to do the best for your soulmate of 35 years you do things with blinders on.
It has been a very eye opening experience. One I will not soon forget.
You are right I served with many I would never trust on the outside.
My Bad.
I am now just trying to figure out how to get these things fixed properly.
I have reached out to TMC and am waiting for a response.

I guess I forget that the days of a Mans word being golden and you can make a deal on a handshake are long gone.

Love this coach just don’t love the issues.
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Old 07-21-2020, 03:45 PM   #19
I Think We're Lost!
 
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Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 15,661
THOR #8860
On the bright side (If you can call it that...): none of the issues are un-fixable.
(Even though they never should have been allowed to occur.)
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Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
"History shows again and again; how Nature points out the folly of Man!"
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Old 07-21-2020, 03:56 PM   #20
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Venetian L40
State: California
Posts: 5
THOR #19730
Seem to be on the right track

I have made contact With TMC and the process has begun.
Thanks for all the help good, bad or indifferent,
Ben
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