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01-07-2019, 10:29 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2017 Axis 25.4
State: Arkansas
Posts: 2,669
THOR #12231
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Why dont they make Gas Pushers?
Ok your RV guru's,
Why dont they make a 35 to 39 foot long "GAS" pusher?
Pros:
1) It would make the cockpit of the RV very quiet while driving (this might be the only main advantage).
2) Still weigh about the same as the current 35 - 39 footers (Like the Challengers) so the power to weight should not be a problem.
3) Cost less than a DP (I know - not as good as DP ....esp when it comes to towing or mtn driving.... but might cost $10K - 15K less than DP?).
4) Some folks just like Gas vehicles (or are scared of Diesel).
5) Allows front entrance way like a DP - which might make for more useable interior space and longer curb side slide.
Cons:
1) Cost more than the current front engine using the Ford F53 chassis. So why bother.
2) Have to use the DP chassis or make a NEW chassis just for the Gas Pusher so that would make it cost more than the current DP??
3) Have to move the generator up to the nose (no big deal), but might also have a step up in bedroom and loose under the bed storage?
What do you think?
Has any manufacture ever offered a large(ish) Gas pusher?
Would they have to manufacture this RV as a spring ride to justify (or cut) costs (but rougher ride so why bother with this Idea?) or could it be air ride as well?
__________________
2017 Axis / 25.4: Big Foot Levelers, Aims 1200 Watt inverter, Ceramic Window Tint, Full River AGM 6V batteries, Front Hellwig Sway bar / Rear Track Arm, Safe T Plus Steering Stabilizer, PD 4655 converter, Hard Wired Surge Guard, WEboost + WiFi Ranger, LED Headlights/Driving lights, TPMS, Surge tank, Tornado flush, Viair Compressor
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01-07-2019, 10:34 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: Georgia
Posts: 2,585
THOR #4735
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if there was a real demand for them, maybe
but, a whole new chassis design, from the ONE company that offers gas engine raw chassis', is highly unlikely
the one's they offer have a proven track record
----------------------------------------------------
my coach is a diesel pusher, yet has a door midway down the coach, and I like it that way much better - it's hard to have a front let-down bed with a front door, though Thor does have a few - I just wonder how having to 'stoop over' to get out, or get in, really works for folks when the bed is down.
I wouldn't want a front entry coach, whether gas or diesel.
....maybe : )
__________________
the Turners...
two Campers, two Electric cars
former diesel pusher traveler
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01-07-2019, 11:15 PM
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#3
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I Think We're Lost!
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 22,195
THOR #8860
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They used to: about 45 years ago...
FMC comes to mind.
__________________
"What: me worry?"
Good Sam Member 843599689
Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
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01-07-2019, 11:22 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Palazzo 36.1
State: North Carolina
Posts: 349
THOR #13712
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Agreed, we have the mid door Palazzo d would not get the front entry for many reasons.
__________________
Chuck and Mary Ann
FMCA, Good Sam Life Member and Thor MC member
Enjoy the journey, one day at a time!
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01-07-2019, 11:25 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Palazzo 36.1
State: North Carolina
Posts: 349
THOR #13712
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Interesting question and great reason for it to exist! I wonder if the cooling capability is an issue with the engine in the rear?
__________________
Chuck and Mary Ann
FMCA, Good Sam Life Member and Thor MC member
Enjoy the journey, one day at a time!
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01-07-2019, 11:29 PM
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#6
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I Think We're Lost!
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 22,195
THOR #8860
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If they can keep a 600 horsepower diesel happy back there: a gas engine shouldn't be much tougher...
__________________
"What: me worry?"
Good Sam Member 843599689
Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
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01-07-2019, 11:35 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Hurricane 31S
State: Texas
Posts: 4,182
THOR #6411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Long & Winding road
Ok your RV guru's,
Why dont they make a 35 to 39 foot long "GAS" pusher?ould they have to manufacture this RV as a spring ride to justify (or cut) costs (but rougher ride so why bother with this Idea?) or could it be air ride as well?
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They did and few were sold. Look up Itasca Latitude (2005-2008). Workhorse made the chassis.
__________________
Jim & Roy Davis
2016 Hurricane 31S
1961 Rampside in tow
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01-07-2019, 11:38 PM
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#8
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I Think We're Lost!
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 22,195
THOR #8860
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__________________
"What: me worry?"
Good Sam Member 843599689
Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
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01-08-2019, 12:57 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2016 Thor Outlaw 29H
State: Tennessee
Posts: 668
THOR #13869
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For me, not scared at diesels, they have just been more maintenance and dirtier on the upkeep.
Fuels are better now a days too, for diesels.
Diesel fuel costs more, and the separate additive now is added expense.
Not all stations provide diesel fuel conveniently.
The added weight, because of the high compression, diesels need to be all cast iron (heavy!).
Then for us, at this stage, a toy hauler with a rear ramp is the way we want to go, so I do not think any type rp for us.
__________________
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01-08-2019, 02:00 AM
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#10
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Axis/Vegas Enthusiast
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.4
State: Michigan
Posts: 9,837
THOR #1150
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Wow, if you are really curious: Here is the Brochure (pdf).
And they only put a 5,000 lb hitch on the thing? (8.1L GM gas engine with two overdrive gears!)
or you could get it with a Freightliner Chassis with a Diesel.
Oh forget it: It has a Trimark lock--thats a dealbreaker now.
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01-08-2019, 03:23 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2017 Axis 25.4
State: Arkansas
Posts: 2,669
THOR #12231
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Thanks for the info. I really like that Latitude. Looks like spring ride chassis with Hydro brakes.
So you get rid of the engine noise from up front.... but it still dont ride or stop any better than the front engine gas units. Been nice to have air ride and the air brakes.
But I still like it.
__________________
2017 Axis / 25.4: Big Foot Levelers, Aims 1200 Watt inverter, Ceramic Window Tint, Full River AGM 6V batteries, Front Hellwig Sway bar / Rear Track Arm, Safe T Plus Steering Stabilizer, PD 4655 converter, Hard Wired Surge Guard, WEboost + WiFi Ranger, LED Headlights/Driving lights, TPMS, Surge tank, Tornado flush, Viair Compressor
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01-08-2019, 04:12 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
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It’s all about cost. Motorhome chassis volume isn’t enough to justify a lot of engineering to develop a completely new motorhome-specific chassis. By using essentially a lightly-modified truck chassis, the cost stays around $30,000 which is hard to beat.
I think a possible compromise may be to take an F53 chassis and turn it into a mid-engine by moving engine back just enough so it can be lowered significantly to provide a flat floor. The present truck-based chassis places engine above solid front axle which increases height a lot.
Another possibility for a compromise would be to install an independent double A-arm front suspension that would allow dropping engine almost a foot. That could provide a flat floor over engine on larger basement Class As.
While neither of these options would eliminate need for engine access, a trap door could be sound insulated much better than a dog house.
__________________
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01-08-2019, 10:19 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2016 Thor Outlaw 29H
State: Tennessee
Posts: 668
THOR #13869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieGeek
Oh forget it: It has a Trimark lock--thats a dealbreaker now.
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Excuse my ignorance, what is up about Trimark Lock?
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01-08-2019, 12:13 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: THOR Chateua 35SF
State: Florida
Posts: 5,850
THOR #11130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10scDust
For me, not scared at diesels, they have just been more maintenance and dirtier on the upkeep.
Fuels are better now a days too, for diesels.
Diesel fuel costs more, and the separate additive now is added expense.
Not all stations provide diesel fuel conveniently.
The added weight, because of the high compression, diesels need to be all cast iron (heavy!).
Then for us, at this stage, a toy hauler with a rear ramp is the way we want to go, so I do not think any type rp for us.
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Most of this is "dated data". Diesels are as clean burning as gas engines now and maintenance is no more than a gas...actually cheaper. Diesel is available everywhere. Newer blocks are lighter, graphite iron and aluminum. The only reason to go diesel is for power and torque. When you need power...costs are secondary.
__________________
Now an SOB
Traded Thor for Melbourne Prestige 24NP
2018 THOR Chateau 35SF
Two Labs, Bugsie & Blondie
Blondie passed in 2020 at 5 to Leukemia
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01-08-2019, 12:32 PM
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#15
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Axis/Vegas Enthusiast
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.4
State: Michigan
Posts: 9,837
THOR #1150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10scDust
Excuse my ignorance, what is up about Trimark Lock?
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Here is one of the many threads on the Trimark lock breaking:
http://www.thorforums.com/forums/f8/...pped-8192.html
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01-08-2019, 01:01 PM
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#16
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I Think We're Lost!
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 22,195
THOR #8860
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At times: Trimark locks are a little bit like hand grenades
They seem to break at the most interesting times...
http://www.thorforums.com/forums/att...1&d=1546952467
__________________
"What: me worry?"
Good Sam Member 843599689
Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
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01-08-2019, 01:09 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
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It would be very easy to build a larger gas engine that could deliver all the required power and torque that’s needed. It’s been done before, but much higher fuel costs makes it impractical, so in my opinion it comes down to total costs.
Given same displacement size, modern turbo gas engines produce more power than diesel. The 2.7L Ford EcoBoost pulls a trailer uphill faster than the 3.0 turbo diesel. The advantage to 3.0 PowerStroke is lower fuel consumption, and probably longer life (which also lowers costs).
Just saying that if power and torque was only thing driving purchases, Ford could easily build an 8-liter EcoBoost V8, but who would buy it if it got 6 MPG?
__________________
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01-08-2019, 01:40 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2017 Axis 25.4
State: Arkansas
Posts: 2,669
THOR #12231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance
It’s all about cost. Motorhome chassis volume isn’t enough to justify a lot of engineering to develop a completely new motorhome-specific chassis. By using essentially a lightly-modified truck chassis, the cost stays around $30,000 which is hard to beat.
I think a possible compromise may be to take an F53 chassis and turn it into a mid-engine by moving engine back just enough so it can be lowered significantly to provide a flat floor. The present truck-based chassis places engine above solid front axle which increases height a lot.
Another possibility for a compromise would be to install an independent double A-arm front suspension that would allow dropping engine almost a foot. That could provide a flat floor over engine on larger basement Class As.
While neither of these options would eliminate need for engine access, a trap door could be sound insulated much better than a dog house.
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Yep, your right. Not much volume to justify.... but I still think it would be nice to have this option (ie Gas pusher).
Yes, If they could lower the engine a foot or move it back and lower it with a trap door behind the cockpit that might really help with the engine noise up front.
__________________
2017 Axis / 25.4: Big Foot Levelers, Aims 1200 Watt inverter, Ceramic Window Tint, Full River AGM 6V batteries, Front Hellwig Sway bar / Rear Track Arm, Safe T Plus Steering Stabilizer, PD 4655 converter, Hard Wired Surge Guard, WEboost + WiFi Ranger, LED Headlights/Driving lights, TPMS, Surge tank, Tornado flush, Viair Compressor
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01-08-2019, 01:43 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2017 Axis 25.4
State: Arkansas
Posts: 2,669
THOR #12231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance
It would be very easy to build a larger gas engine that could deliver all the required power and torque that’s needed. It’s been done before, but much higher fuel costs makes it impractical, so in my opinion it comes down to total costs.
Given same displacement size, modern turbo gas engines produce more power than diesel. The 2.7L Ford EcoBoost pulls a trailer uphill faster than the 3.0 turbo diesel. The advantage to 3.0 PowerStroke is lower fuel consumption, and probably longer life (which also lowers costs).
Just saying that if power and torque was only thing driving purchases, Ford could easily build an 8-liter EcoBoost V8, but who would buy it if it got 6 MPG?
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Yep, I think your right except with the moden computer controls and the 8 - 10 speed auto trannys they are using today - I think you could get 8 - 10 mph easy.
__________________
2017 Axis / 25.4: Big Foot Levelers, Aims 1200 Watt inverter, Ceramic Window Tint, Full River AGM 6V batteries, Front Hellwig Sway bar / Rear Track Arm, Safe T Plus Steering Stabilizer, PD 4655 converter, Hard Wired Surge Guard, WEboost + WiFi Ranger, LED Headlights/Driving lights, TPMS, Surge tank, Tornado flush, Viair Compressor
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01-08-2019, 01:46 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: THOR Chateua 35SF
State: Florida
Posts: 5,850
THOR #11130
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You'll see flavored snowball stands in Hell before you ever see a gas pusher. Everyone is breaking their necks to figure out how to go diesel or electric. The bus business is as much a part of the Ford chassis as motorhomes. Why would they spend millions trying to reinvent the wheel when flying cars are just around the corner?
__________________
Now an SOB
Traded Thor for Melbourne Prestige 24NP
2018 THOR Chateau 35SF
Two Labs, Bugsie & Blondie
Blondie passed in 2020 at 5 to Leukemia
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