Class A Pricing

[spdjeep23]

Our family is strongly considering the purchase of a Thor Hurricane 34J Class A. We love the layout, space, and the fact that everyone has bathroom/food access while going down the road. It would work out best for traveling with smaller children we think.

That being said... the market scares the pants off of me. I completely understand that inflation is hitting everything now, and I understand the laws of supply and demand. Car prices have gone up substantially due to shortages as well as supply and demand. At the end of the day though, we're talking a few thousand dollars vs the previous year in MOST cases. While looking over the past several months, I have gathered the pricing shown below. Most forum posts, people never mention what they paid or what pricing they found. Dealers will also act extremely odd when I talk about prior year pricing... and are NOT transparent at all. If it weren't for Matt's RV review, I would have no basis for price increases.

2022 - MSRP 186,750 - Sale - 158,737 - Hershey PA Show
2021 - MSRP 165,676 - Sale - 119,995 - Per Matt's RV Review
2020 - MSRP 157,200 - Sale - 95,995 - Per Matt's RV Review
2017 - MSRP??????? - Sale 70,000 - Per pricing on an old forum post

Now, looking at this I can stomach the price changes I observe from 2017 to 2020 which is higher than inflation but still not completely insane... 2020 is when camper sales really began to take off and supply started getting short. The price jumps I see from 2020 to the 2022 model year is what I cannot stomach.... A PRICE CHANGE OF 62,742 IN ESSENTIALLY A YEAR!!!!!!

A local dealer has had a 34J in stock now for several months, and they would sell it for essentially 120kish. If we see the same % discount as the 2020 Matt's RV review pricing should be about 113k or so....

I've looked at used models as well, but 2017 models are being sold for around 90k... which is more than what they went for back in 2017.

I feel like this all has to normalize eventually, and I'm fine with purchasing something with a depreciation I understand. If things DO normalize and someone were to purchase at 62k higher than what prices normalize to, you would NEVER recover from that loss. At least easily.

My questions to this forum:

- If you purchased a Class A, what MSRP and purchase price were you able to get and in what year?

- In times of high inflation, I assume prices won't go down but where can we expect the discount % to settle back where it had been.

- At what point will people be unable to afford this sort of thing? 100k seems crazy enough to me, if prices continue to go up WHO can afford a 180-200k motor home? Especially if interest rates go up....

- Do you expect the used market to normalize? Or will prices continue to inflate for used models? In the past, depreciation has come off of the purchase price you paid at initial purchase. Now it seems like they are depreciating off of the prices of new models. New prices probably won't go down... and if inflation continues to go up from here does that mean the equity in an RV would go up or stay flat over time? This makes NO logical sense.

Just throwing a few things out there... I'd love to get a Class A a few years old at the REAL worth of it (50-60k). But with things being as dynamic as they are... maybe a new purchase is the way to go

[Bob Denman]

Welcome aboard!
Buy the RV based on the place where you will get the best service AFTER the sale...
The pain of the purchase price is easily off-set by the comfort of knowing that you have a dealer is will work for you!

[ducksface]

Simple
Lowest price is $100+- a month from highest priced.
If you're cutting it that close, you're not rv'r material.

If you're paying cash, don't forget fees and insurance.

And
After you buy it isn't worth the singlest of cents until you sell it. It's a ZERO taking up space in the yard.

Depreciation isn't an rv thing.
This isn't an investment.
If you can't afford to lose 100% due to something outside the realm of insurance, don't buy it.

[spdjeep23]

Originally Posted by ducksface

Simple
Lowest price is $100+- a month from highest priced.
If you're cutting it that close, you're not rv'r material.

I sure hope this is Satire…. The monthly cost is irrelevant. I can afford whatever the hell I want in payments, but at the end of the day yeeting 60k needlessly into the oblivion is something I won’t sign up for…. You should understand what you are buying and the risks

[ducksface]

Originally Posted by spdjeep23

I sure hope this is Satire…. The monthly cost is irrelevant. I can afford whatever the hell I want in payments, but at the end of the day yeeting 60k needlessly into the oblivion is something I won’t sign up for…. You should understand what you are buying and the risks

If want doesn't outweigh the unknown/unknowable financial loss you don't want it badly enough to suffer the financial loss.

The LOSS is 100% in our household until the material item is turned into after tax cash in the bank.

We don't Enron the books, we don't even do
Mark to market.
It's a zero.
Your purchase will also be a zero under certain rare circumstance.

Buying an rv based on future used value is not in the cards of most because most know tarot is only a lovely hobby.

Expect the biggest loss.
If you can live with it,
Buy the RV.
If you can't face it, don't buy it.
The haunting probably isn't worth it.

My post had little to do with the op other than an open opportunity.
But to the op:
If you can afford anything you want, I suggest you might not want a Thor....

[Chateau_Nomad]

The reality is that "suggested retail price" (or "sticker price") is absolutely meaningless. It's there to provide a mindset - a psychological "trick" to convince you that you're getting a good deal... the same psychology that fools some into thinking that $9.99 is much less tan $10.00. They see the "9", and the brain stops. Gasoline is psychologically priced the same way... people tend to ignore that little "9".

The SELLING price tells you what the RV is really worth - it's true "street value". With RVs, it's a historically common practice to compare selling price as a PERCENTAGE of the retail "sticker" price. Pre-2020, if you didn't receive a "30% discount off of sticker", you likely overpaid. Consumers who did diligent research could get those prices... but just like buying cars, some consumers will ALWAYS overpay.

A funny thing happened during the pandemic. A LOT of blame and finger pointing when a very fragile economic system crashed. Now we're seeing the results. Artificially induced "shortages" due to 40 years of shifting supply chains offshore. The Earth's raw materials are still there... why the "shortages"? I think people know the answer.

So the 30% discount of past years has turned into a 10% to 15% discount AFTER the retail "sticker" price was inflated 20% to 30% in LESS THAN TWO YEARS. And (as evidenced by Matt's RV Reviews) the discounted prices were out there for all to see. Matt is now at the mercy of the dealers who allow him on their lots... most of whom do not allow those discounted prices to be made public... likely because the dealer down the street will undercut them by a few bucks.

I don't think the economy has hit a critical breaking point yet. I think it will create a snowball effect when it eventually does. I think the RV market will be drastically affected by a crash... the current mounting inventory on dealer lots is a sign to me that the frenzy has peaked and is slowing. Let's see what happens over the winter into next spring.

P.S. In the end buying an RV is NOT a financial investment. It is simply a purchase which makes leisure time more enjoyable. When we bought our motorhome, we KNEW it was for that EXACT purpose... nothing more. I figured the difference between the purchase price and eventual selling price was meaningless... unless I could put a $ amount on the value of our travel enjoyment. And that I CANNOT DO!!

[taylorbob1]

It's basic Economics 101...
- Supply vs Demand

It's now appearing the supply is being greatly increased and demand is waning.

And supplies will increase more dramatically as fuel and other expenses of owning an RV become subject to inflation.
One thing we do now know...the inflation we are experiencing is not Transitory. It's here to stay.

So look for many just-used units to enter the market.

There will be many anxious owners trying to dump their rig and get out from under their impulse purchase during the height of the Covid price run-up.

Shop & shop & shop until you find the right deal.

[DavidEM]

I agree with Taylorbob1: We are beginning to see the end of the RV, cars, etc price increases and in time it will get back to normal.

RV manufacturers have increased list prices about 20% and dealers are no longer willing to sell for 30+% off of list. I don't see MSRPs dropping, but I do see them stagnating until we get back to normal, whatever that is. Dealers will also start offering better discounts off of MSRP due to greater kickbacks from manufacturers and lower margins for themselves. I suspect in a year or so you will be able to buy the same coach for 15% less than today as a result of these market changes.

As Taylorbob1 notes, many buyers of new RVs over the last year or so will decide that they prefer vacationing in Cancun, etc more than RV camping so they will sell. I suspect you will see a huge drop in used RV prices in a year or so.

So if you can wait a year, do so. It can only get better and buying now will be expensive

David

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by spdjeep23

My questions to this forum:

- If you purchased a Class A, what MSRP and purchase price were you able to get and in what year?

- In times of high inflation, I assume prices won't go down but where can we expect the discount % to settle back where it had been.

- At what point will people be unable to afford this sort of thing? 100k seems crazy enough to me, if prices continue to go up WHO can afford a 180-200k motor home? Especially if interest rates go up....

- Do you expect the used market to normalize?

Bought ours 34R new September last year.
1 - MSRP price was ~$35K less than what it is today. Final price 30%+ less than MSRP.
2 - Discounts will disappear ... That is a way to not increase the MSRP and yet increase or recover margin. In a not distant future a $300K (sale pric) basic gas motorhome will be a bargain.
3 - "People": depend on who you are talking about. Regular middle class w/o too much exposure to investments that auto correct for inflation will be kicked out of the market and in a medium term only people that do really good will be able to afford a motorhome. As the mentality of "We the people" disappear, so does middle class and the products for it.
4 - Price of the used ones will follow the price of the new ones in the first generation, the following generation will only dream on having it so the used market will be only for the "rich" too...
5 - Expect government to add to prices by classifying Motorhomes as "luxury" items and increase tax on it.
6 - Expect Gov. to install tolls everywhere...
7 - As middle class gets poor and the poor gets miserable, expect violence to increase and with that increased cost of Insurance.


As the US adopts a more "global" (European) mindset, it also adopts the mentality that certain things are made only for the Noble...

[HMCSW]

Originally Posted by ducksface

If want doesn't outweigh the unknown/unknowable financial loss you don't want it badly enough to suffer the financial loss.

The LOSS is 100% in our household until the material item is turned into after tax cash in the bank.

We don't Enron the books, we don't even do
Mark to market.
It's a zero.
Your purchase will also be a zero under certain rare circumstance.

Buying an rv based on future used value is not in the cards of most because most know tarot is only a lovely hobby.

Expect the biggest loss.
If you can live with it,
Buy the RV.
If you can't face it, don't buy it.
The haunting probably isn't worth it.

My post had little to do with the op other than an open opportunity.
But to the op:
If you can afford anything you want, I suggest you might not want a Thor....

I enjoy our 2021 Aria but if I was in the OP seat, Newell would be in my estates garage

[ducksface]

Originally Posted by HMCSW

I enjoy our 2021 Aria but if I was in the OP seat, Newell would be in my estates garage

I had to bite my tongue to not post the same Newell suggestion.

I use, and know exactly what it means, the term:
The greater fool.

At auctions, the winner is either the greater fool, or had information others do not regarding value. There is nothing else to consider. You paid more than anyone else due to foolishness or you knew more than anyone else about the article and your need for it.

I have been both.

I think the op is just trying to not be
The greater fool
By buying at the wrong price.

That is the intersection of want and need and ability and fear.

[atreis]

At some point you just have to shrug, say, "It's mine now!" and make the best of it without worrying about whether or not you got the best possible deal.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by atreis

At some point you just have to shrug, say, "It's mine now!" and make the best of it without worrying about whether or not you got the best possible deal.

At least until the sheriff shows up with repo papers and a tow truck...

[airforceret]

Mine literally sells for double what I paid in 2017 because of the Pandemic pricing. Once we get past all the current BS there will be many that lose their butts if they want to sell or trade. If you find one you like and don't mind paying the current BS premium pricing then go for it, but if you think you will sell or trade within the next few years you will likely eat at least 40% or more of the current purchase price, along with normal depreciation.

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by spdjeep23

- If you purchased a Class A, what MSRP and purchase price were you able to get and in what year?
Just throwing a few things out there... I'd love to get a Class A a few years old at the REAL worth of it (50-60k). But with things being as dynamic as they are... maybe a new purchase is the way to go

Our 31S listed for $129,000 and we payed $86,500. It is on the 190" chassis which listed for $24,000 FOB Detroit. With shipping and MorRyde mods, it cost plant 750 about $28,000. The current Ford F-53 stripped 228" chassis list for $39,999. MorRyde charges to modify the Ford chassis making the chassis delivered to Plant 750 cost of $48,000.
Thor MC does not make a Hurricane with my interior layout, but JayCo does in the Precept 31 UL for $186,818 plus extras of $4,100 which my coach came with. The big cost increase is for chemicals (resins, paint plastics). The Axalta car paint I buy has increased 100% since 2016.

[spdjeep23]

I know it will lose value. I’ve basically found a thirty percent discount. The msrp increase has made it not mean as much (30k more). I’m just wondering if inflation will continue to push prices even higher. I’ve also noticed used values seem to be indexing off of new prices instead of purchase price. Just an odd time

[Chateau_Nomad]

Wouldn't it be nice if you could just give yourself a 30% raise... without working harder? You know... because things are "more expensive"?

What added value have RV manufacturers created to warrant THAT much of a price increase in such a short time?

... yeah, I know... tell me things just don't work that way, and I don't understand the economic system.

...figured it out yet?

[Scubawise]

Buy it! Life is short..have fun..enjoy wine in your new home..hug on the road. All will work out

[spdjeep23]

Absolutely my thoughts!

[halfprice]

Originally Posted by Scubawise

Buy it! Life is short..have fun..enjoy wine in your new home..hug on the road. All will work out

Great advise that's why we're buying the Renegade

Jerry