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Old 10-03-2021, 02:03 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by TonnyS View Post
To ALL of the replies, THANKS!! Some really good info.
DavidEM I have the original standard charger that came OEM. So I should avoid the lithium batteries and replace with AGM??
That’s what I think I will do once my OE flooded batteries fail. But so far, since the coach rolled off the line in 3/2019 they still do fine. I add distilled water twice a year. It is a pain since I have to unplug from shore power. Put the switch in store. Disconnect all the cables. Lift them out. Fill em. Clean up the mess. And put everything back together. The chassis battery under the hood can be done without removing. But, I ususally draw blood when I raise up from squeezing my head in to see down in the holes and then raise up, forgetting what I did to get in their. Usually heals in a week or so.

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Old 10-03-2021, 02:06 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by TonnyS View Post
To ALL of the replies, THANKS!! Some really good info.
DavidEM I have the original standard charger that came OEM. So I should avoid the lithium batteries and replace with AGM??
Not really. It all depends on what you want.

Flooded cell lead acid batteries can work fine if you maintain them by checking periodically and adding water if necessary and rarely run them down below 50%.

I used AGMs because I liked the no maintenance and the price for the Windynation AGMs wasn't that much higher than an equivalent lead acid G31 battery.

If you need more than 100 amp hours of usable capacity then lithium batteries can do that for you. A pair of G31 lithium batteries has about 200 amp hours of usable capacity, double that of equivalent size FLA or AGM batteries. The only downside is the need to upgrade the charger to fully charge them but that can have the added benefit of increased charging rate.

So all are acceptable depending on what you want.

David
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Old 10-03-2021, 03:03 PM   #23
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I plan to replace my OEM batteries with AGM once they wear out. I don't mind the higher cost of AGM and love the lack of maintenance. AGM do cost more though, so there's that to consider.
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Old 10-03-2021, 08:11 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by atreis View Post
I plan to replace my OEM batteries with AGM once they wear out. I don't mind the higher cost of AGM and love the lack of maintenance. AGM do cost more though, so there's that to consider.
That was my plan but I got restless I absolutely hate FLA in an RV House battery situation. I think it should be outlawed and I will never ever buy any new RV that has FLA House battery without a plan with the dealer to trade them in on AGMs.

Note: My Chassis battery is FLA and it has no issues. I don't water it either and I will NOT water it. When it goes; I will buy another, but maybe get maintenance free.

I bought my Pur AGM VMax tanks for the House batteries 6 months ago and it has been all the difference. I stop short of recommending to anyone anymore right now because the last I checked; they were incredibly expensive? I got my two 125ah SLR batteries for $500 total out of pocket expense, no tax, no shipping, no core charges etc.

For OP, if you are price conscious you should consider the Duracell AGMs at Sams, it is what I was going to buy until I learned about the Pure AGMs versus the Dual RV / Marine batteries.

Oddly I consider myself as price conscious, but I found the $500 a steal of a deal.

Unless they work out issues with Lithium around freezing , charging etc. I am never going to consider making the modifications to Lithium in my current RV, rather I suspect my next RV may come with Lithiums? I put this in the category where I had to find an RV with 2 ACs and 50 amps service versus a plan to add a 2nd AC to a 30 amp unit that I otherwise had found a good deal on.
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Old 10-04-2021, 10:54 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by dkoldman View Post
That was my plan but I got restless I absolutely hate FLA in an RV House battery situation. I think it should be outlawed and I will never ever buy any new RV that has FLA House battery without a plan with the dealer to trade them in on AGMs.



Note: My Chassis battery is FLA and it has no issues. I don't water it either and I will NOT water it. When it goes; I will buy another, but maybe get maintenance free.



I bought my Pur AGM VMax tanks for the House batteries 6 months ago and it has been all the difference. I stop short of recommending to anyone anymore right now because the last I checked; they were incredibly expensive? I got my two 125ah SLR batteries for $500 total out of pocket expense, no tax, no shipping, no core charges etc.



For OP, if you are price conscious you should consider the Duracell AGMs at Sams, it is what I was going to buy until I learned about the Pure AGMs versus the Dual RV / Marine batteries.



Oddly I consider myself as price conscious, but I found the $500 a steal of a deal.



Unless they work out issues with Lithium around freezing , charging etc. I am never going to consider making the modifications to Lithium in my current RV, rather I suspect my next RV may come with Lithiums? I put this in the category where I had to find an RV with 2 ACs and 50 amps service versus a plan to add a 2nd AC to a 30 amp unit that I otherwise had found a good deal on.


Glad you’re happy. What in the world is so terrible about flooded house batteries? I’m very happy with mine. Flawless performance and replace them every 4 years at my convenience. Last time it cost $160 for the pair. Very happy.
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Old 10-04-2021, 11:13 PM   #26
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I put AGMs in my 29M. I got tired of watering and cleaning up the mess caused by the off gassing of the FLAs. Sure the AGMs cost a little more, but they are practically set it and forget it.
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Old 10-04-2021, 11:18 PM   #27
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Glad you’re happy. What in the world is so terrible about flooded house batteries? I’m very happy with mine. Flawless performance and replace them every 4 years at my convenience. Last time it cost $160 for the pair. Very happy.
X2 HOW can you hate batteries. Had Flooded in a travel trailer lasted 3.5 years no issues. Even during a 90 day road trip.

30 year tech put in interstate group 31 ..$200..we dry camp boondock 95% and use a 3000 w inverter ..no issues
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Old 10-04-2021, 11:19 PM   #28
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I put AGMs in my 29M. I got tired of watering and cleaning up the mess caused by the off gassing of the FLAs. Sure the AGMs cost a little more, but they are practically set it and forget it.
When our flooded goes will consider
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Old 10-04-2021, 11:36 PM   #29
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Everything has its application. I went with Walmart batteries as pix I took at Costco looking identical down to number style. Looks like just a diff sticker.

That said we really do not dry camp often, we may overnight in cooler weather. Battery load not much of issue. I did install inverter to allow tv/bluray/video games when underway without gen. Batteries were original dated 2015. I used to test by running inverter unplugged from shore power and count hours till indicator dropped from 4 to 3. Early on was 4 hours, past couple years was closer to 3 hours. Now using old RV batts in boat.

We dry camped at Walmart in Alabama last yead and had no issues.

I understand the most expensive options are a big advance in capacity. Some people will benefit as long as management system can handle.

Unless we see a change in our application, the old less tech method works fine.
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Old 10-05-2021, 12:36 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Pete'sMH View Post
Glad you’re happy. What in the world is so terrible about flooded house batteries? I’m very happy with mine. Flawless performance and replace them every 4 years at my convenience. Last time it cost $160 for the pair. Very happy.
Nothing wrong with flooded batteries. For many, they work just fine. For me, they've worked just fine when I've had them in the past. I just don't like having to water them, so am willing to pay the extra for AGM in order to have that greater level of convenience. Each to his or her own. There are many right choices, and the best choice for one person is not necessarily the best for another.
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Old 10-05-2021, 12:37 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Scubawise View Post
X2 HOW can you hate batteries. Had Flooded in a travel trailer lasted 3.5 years no issues. Even during a 90 day road trip.

30 year tech put in interstate group 31 ..$200..we dry camp boondock 95% and use a 3000 w inverter ..no issues
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When our flooded goes will consider
Your two posts actually contradict one or another; or may be the basis answer to your question as you are willing to consider when your flooded goes. A better question from you to me could have been why did I consider changing BEFORE my flooded had issues?

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Glad you’re happy. What in the world is so terrible about flooded house batteries? I’m very happy with mine. Flawless performance and replace them every 4 years at my convenience. Last time it cost $160 for the pair. Very happy.
I am very happy. Probably one of my favorite upgrades. I will never ever own a RV with FLA Coach batteries ever again.

But you asked why

I have crowed about it so many times, I guess I assumed everyone knew. But before I list why let me preface that Quality is defined as fitness for use. My NAPA FLA functioned exactly as designed. I assume any FLA in a House battery deep cycling situation would do the same. Why do some people by a nail gun when a regular hammer can do the job?

1. I didn't want to water my batteries anymore. I am will willing to spend 3 hours a month washing and cleaning my RV, but refuse to take 10 minutes out of my day to open the steps open the caps, check the water, and add DI water if needed.
2. I didn't want to buy ANY watering tool or aid, I didn't want to water my batteries anywhere anytime for any reason. Just like Sam I Am not liking Green Eggs and Ham I have never ever had to water any batteries for any motorcycle, any boat, any car or any SUV I have ever owned.
3. Safety factor in dealing with acid and corrosive materials. Batteries do explode, it is rare but it happens
4. The sulfating, the fumes underneath the steps
5. The corrosion, not just battery terminals but the steel flooring and everything metal inside.
6. But maybe my biggest and final straw because my original plan was to wait until the batteries went bad, but one day I had acid leakage and it not only etched the floor a little, but it put a significant stain on my new $8,000 concrete driveway for my new RV I was pissed and the batteries had to go. I gave them away and bought the AGMs.

Yes I could have bought FLA Maintenance Free, but I wanted 125 ahs and pure AGM. It is night and day difference. Every once in a while I open the hatch to look at the batteries only to see clean. I have doubled my boondocking capability from the 65ahs each FLA to the 125 Pure AGM; so I spent $300 more, but it shut me up, nothing more to complain about but the price of gas

Note: My chassis battery is FLA and I don't hate it. I don't water it either, nor does it ever corrode or leak. It is not like I have been under a rock. I have used FLA batteries all my life too. But this is my first RV, and it was a PITA to me. It is gone and I am gonna do my happy dance one more time.


See the stain in the picture? Well that is just one spot caused by the now gone batteries. I should also add that one of the reasons I did not buy the brand new Thor 2018 ACE 29.3 was because when I went to PDI the battery compartment had a battery that exploded. Yes the TMC Dealer replaced the batteries with more FLA but they refused to even pretend like they would fix the other damage around hydraulics etc. Thor said it was damage done on the dealer's lot. At the time, everybody on this site advised me to run as fast as I could, I ran faster

See pictures of the corrosion after the dealer repair.
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Old 10-05-2021, 12:47 AM   #32
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Nothing wrong with flooded batteries. For many, they work just fine. For me, they've worked just fine when I've had them in the past. I just don't like having to water them, so am willing to pay the extra for AGM in order to have that greater level of convenience. Each to his or her own. There are many right choices, and the best choice for one person is not necessarily the best for another.
You said it simpler and better than I did. I have a ton of things to worry about with my 1st time RV. Keeping the friggin water level correct ain't one of them anymore. C'mon I bought a TPMS system too (that I don't really use) can't a man get a break The Winnebago Dealer Service Manager was all beside himself when he was looking at my new VMac Tank AGM batteries one day. He said most folks don't care about the batteries until they have trouble and then complain ad nauseum when they stop working or not hold a charge. There are few things in life I don't play around with, tires and batteries. I want the best I can afford. I view it as safety in addition to less work and better performance.
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Old 10-05-2021, 01:45 AM   #33
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My 30 year tech will only use interstate deep cell batteries and 1 year warranty and installed free
Interstate and Walmart's e=Ever Start deep cycle batteries are made on the same Johnson Controls line in Mexico. <https://www.cartechbooks.com/blogs/techtips/battery/>
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Old 10-05-2021, 02:02 AM   #34
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Oh no so are the DIEHARD I mean DIESLOW batteries
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Old 10-06-2021, 02:21 PM   #35
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I think a MAJOR deciding factor between "maintenance required" vs "maintenance free" is the location/ease of access to the batteries.

My class C has the classic battery compartment under the entry steps. I open the top step, and there they are... nothing to move - easy as pie.

That "ease of access" can make a huge difference in how difficult adding water is. If my batteries were in a cumbersome area, there is NO DOUBT I would invest in maintenance free. But where they are, I don't need anything more than my trusty plastic "turkey syringe", and 5 minutes of time to give them a shot of water every so often.

I would LOVE to have AFFORDABLE lithium batteries... but in my case, a maintenance free lead acid type makes more sense... with the "cold weather" charging issues of lithium, I'll stick with old school until those issues are resolved. Otherwise, a lithium battery (for me) IS NOT a "maintenance free" option.
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Old 10-06-2021, 03:39 PM   #36
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I think a MAJOR deciding factor between "maintenance required" vs "maintenance free" is the location/ease of access to the batteries.

My class C has the classic battery compartment under the entry steps. I open the top step, and there they are... nothing to move - easy as pie.

That "ease of access" can make a huge difference in how difficult adding water is. If my batteries were in a cumbersome area, there is NO DOUBT I would invest in maintenance free. But where they are, I don't need anything more than my trusty plastic "turkey syringe", and 5 minutes of time to give them a shot of water every so often.

I would LOVE to have AFFORDABLE lithium batteries... but in my case, a maintenance free lead acid type makes more sense... with the "cold weather" charging issues of lithium, I'll stick with old school until those issues are resolved. Otherwise, a lithium battery (for me) IS NOT a "maintenance free" option.
... so what happened to AGM as an option.

I agree with other points as I have often failed to mention the access as negative component to my otherwise long list of negatives with FLA that require water in a House Battery configuration.

I also don't see Lithium's today as a solution for me, because of that freeze thing? Maybe they have solution, but I have enough to worry about freezing than to add two 1 million dollar batteries to the equation.

I could have 500 ahs and it would be of no benefit to me, because I never boondock without having to run my genset for 2 hrs a day anyway. It is Fools Gold if I were to chase Lithium. Pure AGM is King
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Old 10-06-2021, 04:20 PM   #37
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... so what happened to AGM as an option.

I agree with other points as I have often failed to mention the access as negative component to my otherwise long list of negatives with FLA that require water in a House Battery configuration.

I also don't see Lithium's today as a solution for me, because of that freeze thing? Maybe they have solution, but I have enough to worry about freezing than to add two 1 million dollar batteries to the equation.

I could have 500 ahs and it would be of no benefit to me, because I never boondock without having to run my genset for 2 hrs a day anyway. It is Fools Gold if I were to chase Lithium. Pure AGM is King
Technically AGM, Gel and "flooded" are all classed as lead-acid... just a different internal construction. While Absorbed Glass Mat and Gel are sealed and maintenance free, the "old school" flooded batteries need the occasional drink of distilled water to survive.

And I agree... AGM would be MY maintenance free choice. I just need enough amp hours to run a TV and the absorption fridge occasionally. I can achieve that economically with a form of lead acid.

It would seem (for me) using two 100 amp hour lithiums would be ideal... until you do the math. I'm not interested in spending $1,600 PLUS replacing the converter... THEN removing the batteries to a warm "charging zone" during winter storage. THAT'S NOT maintenance free!!

When my GC2's die, I'll most likely stick two 12 volt AGMs in there - unless by some miracle an economical maintenance free lithium battery becomes available... not holding my breath!
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Old 10-06-2021, 06:22 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad View Post
I think a MAJOR deciding factor between "maintenance required" vs "maintenance free" is the location/ease of access to the batteries.

My class C has the classic battery compartment under the entry steps. I open the top step, and there they are... nothing to move - easy as pie.

That "ease of access" can make a huge difference in how difficult adding water is. If my batteries were in a cumbersome area, there is NO DOUBT I would invest in maintenance free. But where they are, I don't need anything more than my trusty plastic "turkey syringe", and 5 minutes of time to give them a shot of water every so often.

I would LOVE to have AFFORDABLE lithium batteries... but in my case, a maintenance free lead acid type makes more sense... with the "cold weather" charging issues of lithium, I'll stick with old school until those issues are resolved. Otherwise, a lithium battery (for me) IS NOT a "maintenance free" option.
My E450 has same house battery(s) location.
Simple to manage FLA batteries.
Hence, if I lived in cold weather climate I would not be able to leave Lithium batteries in that “outside”, under the entrance steps location year-round.

And has already been discussed…for Lithium’s to function properly, I would also need to change-out:
- WFCO Converter/Charger: Progressive Industries = $250
- BIM (battery isolation manager under engine hood): Battle Born = $299

It’s a big-time commitment
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Old 10-06-2021, 07:20 PM   #39
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I am somewhat dissapointed that the low cost lithium battery suppliers, SOK, Amperetime and CHNS, don't include a sensor to stop charging when the temp gets below freezing. It could only add a few pennies to the cost.

But I don't see it as a deal breaker. When I winterize my coach for the season I just disconnect the negative cable to the batteries and they can't be charged until I reconnect next spring. Not that big of a deal.

I don't use lithium batteries, yet. So far the 200 amp hour, 100 amp hour usable capacity of the $380 I paid for a pair AGMs are doing fine for as much as four nights of dry camping. If I needed much more I would do all of the things (well maybe not the BIM changeout until I could confirm it was required) noted above.

David

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Old 10-06-2021, 08:39 PM   #40
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Technically AGM, Gel and "flooded" are all classed as lead-acid... just a different internal construction.
So technically speaking Chevy's ZL1, Corvette, and "Chevy Cruze" are all classed as gasoline engines... just a different internal construction.

I will stick with my new Corvette (AGM) that I sold my perfectly fine Cruze (Flooded) to get. I opted to not consider the ZL1 (Lithium) because they do not come standard with Air-conditioning
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