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Old 01-08-2021, 06:52 PM   #21
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: MiraMar 35.2
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THOR #14738
Thanks for the help,
Yes that should work I'll give it a try.
Eric
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Old 01-09-2021, 05:57 PM   #22
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryFolk19 View Post
I'm still new to this RV but have found this main switch to be just a pain.
I have killed my batteries twice now ok maybe once I might be able to blame the kids on the second time while having shore power on.

While on shore power the batteries are not charging until the main momentary switch is pushed the red light next to this switch is always is on as soon as you connect to shore power so is useless as an indicator while connected to shore power.

I found the disconnect switch under the bed. Is there a way to attach a indicator light to this disconnect switch so I know it's in Store or Use mode so I don't have to disconnect the shore power and count how many times I push this momentary switch? or walk back to voltage display on the inverter pad and wait to see if its draining or not.

Is there any other way you found to provide an indication your in use mode before killing the batteries.

Yes I'm thinking of putting a manual disconnect on the batteries themselves but for other reasons.

Was exactly my problem, I couldn't find any master battery disconnect in my 24FE so I just installed a master switch myself in the battery compartment, the "main power" I have no idea what this switch does, I do hear a click that's about it and the switch doesn't remain in the up position
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Old 01-09-2021, 06:40 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by slikNSX View Post
Was exactly my problem, I couldn't find any master battery disconnect in my 24FE so I just installed a master switch myself in the battery compartment, the "main power" I have no idea what this switch does, I do hear a click that's about it and the switch doesn't remain in the up position
It is not an ON/off switch. It is a momentary latching rely. It uses 12 volts to turn it on and 12 volts to turn it off. The indicator light just means the 12 volts is present. If you have ceiling lights working and are disconnected from shore power then the relay is ON. Pretty simple.
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Old 01-09-2021, 06:42 PM   #24
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shore power is disconnected and ceiling lights are on, after I hit the main power switch the ceiling lights remain on, so that would mean relay is still juiced, then if I hit the switch again the lights should turn off right? They don't.
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Old 01-09-2021, 06:45 PM   #25
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shore power is disconnected and ceiling lights are on, after I hit the main power switch the ceiling lights remain on, so that would mean relay is still juiced, then if I hit the switch again the lights should turn off right? They don't.
that means the relay is not working.
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Old 01-09-2021, 06:48 PM   #26
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I can hear the audible click under the bed of the 24F, I guess I'll figure out where exactly the relay is and manually test it/replace it. For the time being since I don't have a factory installed master battery cut off switch, I wired one up in the house battery compartment to shut it down for storing. I just couldn't figure out the function of the system, but what you are saying makes sense, just very confusing because of the red light being on all the time.
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Old 01-10-2021, 07:59 PM   #27
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I made the fix and it's working just fine.
Do at own risk I don't know what the factory rational is for their wiring path. Was real easy and haven't seen any issues
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Old 01-10-2021, 08:22 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by CountryFolk19 View Post
I made the fix and it's working just fine.
Do at own risk I don't know what the factory rational is for their wiring path. Was real easy and haven't seen any issues
Their rational was to install a battery disconnect switch, not a DC buss disconnect switch. Indication of the switch status was secondary and poorly thought out. The only way to have true indication of the battery disconnect status is to use a latching relay with secondary (or "b") contacts that were wired to a separate indicating circuit. If such an animal exists in the RV world it definitely costs more than the standard single contact latching relay.
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Old 01-10-2021, 10:54 PM   #29
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If their attempt to create a pure battery disconnect then they should have the relay between the batteries and the relay only but instead connected other things that drain the batteries. Like many have said poor design with maybe a good intent.

with that said not sure why they wouldn't have done it this way except if there might be an issue with the convert backflow 12v when it's powered off over time and still getting the 12v from the battery on the output side.
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Old 01-10-2021, 10:59 PM   #30
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2019 Thor Miramar 35.2 Disconnect status

The BIM is not any type of disconnect switch..... it is an isolator switch that serves two purpsoes.

One - It prevent the house batteries or chassis battery from being overcharged depending on whether the converter or alternator is doing the charging.

Two - it allows the house batteries or chassis battery to be charged when needed from tue converter or alternator.

Some coaches come with a separate disconnect switch and some don’t. My Magnitude has a BIM160 but no disconnect switch so I added one. Now the 2021 Magnitude has a battery disconnect switch added as well.
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Old 01-11-2021, 01:27 AM   #31
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The BIM is not any type of disconnect switch..... it is an isolator switch that serves two purpsoes.

One - It prevent the house batteries or chassis battery from being overcharged depending on whether the converter or alternator is doing the charging.

Two - it allows the house batteries or chassis battery to be charged when needed from tue converter or alternator.

Some coaches come with a separate disconnect switch and some don’t. My Magnitude has a BIM160 but no disconnect switch so I added one. Now the 2021 Magnitude has a battery disconnect switch added as well.
If the oem wiring prevents what you say then making this change might not be a good idea. How does that over charging prevention occur and from what device triggers the relay if over charging other than that switch?

The relay I have is:
KIB Battery Disconnect Latching Relay #LR9806C-BIP

Latching relay

C-BIP version has a small circuit board attached to the “positive” terminal of the relay coil. The is a protection circuit that removes voltage from the coil after a time delay to protect the coil should the switch become stuck in the closed position, or the wiring become grounded.
Replaces the now obsolete LR9806C

Specifications
KIB Battery Disconnect Latching Relay #LR9806C-BIP
Coil Rating 12VDC – 4.4 OhmsNon-Poliarity Sensitive
Min. Activation Voltage 7VDC
Contact Type: 110 amps carry 6-36VDC
Latch Type: Mechanical Push On/Push Off Coil Activated

Disconnect Latching Relay #LR9806C-BIP maintains its set or reset condition until it receives the next inverting input. It is also called a keep relay. There are two types of mechanisms for maintaining the set and reset conditions: a magnetic holding type and a mechanical holding type.
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Old 01-11-2021, 01:53 AM   #32
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2019 Thor Miramar 35.2 Disconnect status

Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryFolk19 View Post
If the oem wiring prevents what you say then making this change might not be a good idea. How does that over charging prevention occur and from what device triggers the relay if over charging other than that switch?

The relay I have is:
KIB Battery Disconnect Latching Relay #LR9806C-BIP

Latching relay

C-BIP version has a small circuit board attached to the “positive” terminal of the relay coil. The is a protection circuit that removes voltage from the coil after a time delay to protect the coil should the switch become stuck in the closed position, or the wiring become grounded.
Replaces the now obsolete LR9806C

Specifications
KIB Battery Disconnect Latching Relay #LR9806C-BIP
Coil Rating 12VDC – 4.4 OhmsNon-Poliarity Sensitive
Min. Activation Voltage 7VDC
Contact Type: 110 amps carry 6-36VDC
Latch Type: Mechanical Push On/Push Off Coil Activated

Disconnect Latching Relay #LR9806C-BIP maintains its set or reset condition until it receives the next inverting input. It is also called a keep relay. There are two types of mechanisms for maintaining the set and reset conditions: a magnetic holding type and a mechanical holding type.

You are tough to please......

The BIM is more than a relay. It is a solid state devhce that also monitors battery voltages.

When on shore power, the converter is responsible for different charging modes. While the converter is charging and monitoring the house batteries, the BIM is monitoring the chassis battery.

When the chassis battery drops to ~12.6V, the BIM connects the chassiis battery to the circuit and the converter will add it to its charging matrix. Once the chassis battery reaches a full charge, the BIM disconnects the chassis battery.

When driving the BIM monitors the house batteries. When the house batteries drop to ~12.6V, the BIM connects the house batteries to the circuit and the alternator provides charging to the house batteries. Once the house batteries reach a full charge, the BIM disconnects the house batteries.

Bottom line.... the BIM works very well at monitoring, protecting and charging all the batteries as needed.
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Old 01-11-2021, 02:27 AM   #33
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Judge,
Thank you so much, you have been a great help. I think I got it.

<<Bottom line this idea is not a good/wise solution>>

I could see if the converter starts overcharging the batteries while on shore power the BIM can't stop it by making this change.
Thanks again..
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Old 01-11-2021, 02:37 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by CountryFolk19 View Post
Judge,
Thank you so much, you have been a great help. I think I got it.

&lt;&lt;Bottom line this idea is not a good/wise solution&gt;&gt;

I could see if the converter starts overcharging the batteries while on shore power the BIM can't stop it by making this change.
Thanks again..

When the BIM connects the chassis battery to the house batteries, the house batteries voltage drop because they are helping to supply voltage to the under charged chassis battery. They wont become overchsthed. The BIM stops the converter from charging the chassis battery when it reaches a charged state. Then the converter manages the house batteries based on their voltages.

All I can tell you is I that I have had no issues with my batteires and I have four house batteries and two chassis batteries. From my seat it is doing its job proeprly.
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Old 01-11-2021, 03:15 AM   #35
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Sorry I got a bit confused with the BIM my fault. All was great info. I'm looking to go to 4 batteries next. Looking at Lithium
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Old 01-11-2021, 10:36 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by CountryFolk19 View Post
Sorry I got a bit confused with the BIM my fault. All was great info. I'm looking to go to 4 batteries next. Looking at Lithium
In the case of the BIM, they make one specifcially for Lithium Batteries because they need to be handled differently.

I also neglected to add one more piece of information about th BIM. My posts were focused on it managing the charging aspects of the house and chassis batteries. The other key piece of information about the BM that somewhat goes without saying is.... it also prevents the house from discharging the chassis battery and the chassis from discharging the house batteries when charging is not available.
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Old 01-11-2021, 03:32 PM   #37
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I wish I had better schematics to my BIM and the Disconnect signaling but.. I've reached out to Thor to see if they have more detailed drawings than the ones I downloaded.

What happen was my MH was plugged in to shore and the disconnect was pushed causing the the convert to only go to house 12v bus panel and NOT connect to battery for charging. it then killed both the chassis and the house batteries due to the few items they have on the battery side that drains the battery such as the inverter control panel because wasn't off.

Yes I had to get external car charger with extension cord and charged up the chassis battery to get the house batteries charged. I couldn't even start the MH.

What your saying about this BIM this should not have happen the BIM should have NOT had both batteries connected resulting in both being drained dead correct?
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Old 01-11-2021, 04:42 PM   #38
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I can only speak to my coach which is a 5 year old, plant 750 coach. There is a tap on the positive post of the chassis battery for an 4 awg cable. This runs to a 100 amp DC circuit breaker located on the frame rail just behind the battery. From the CB another cable runs directly to the house battery compartment which is located just behind the entrance door. The cable is connected to a Trombetta continuous duty DC contactor (relay) located on the back side wall of the battery compartment. A second cable goes directly from the contractor to the positive post of the closest 12 volt house battery. Across the contactor's activation coil's terminals is an Intellitec bi-directional relay with delay controller.
Product Description
The BIRD (BI-DIRECTIONAL ISOLATOR RELAY DELAY) performs two important functions. It provides a method of charging the coach battery from the engine alternator and charges the chassis battery from the
converter when the coach is plugged into shore power. When neither battery is being charged, the batteries are isolated from each other to prevent the loads of one battery from inadvertently discharging the other battery. The unit is housed in a plastic enclosure suitable for mounting under the hood, out of direct water spray. It operates in combination with a continuous duty solenoid to connect the two batteries at the proper times for charging.

There are terminals on the Intellitec controller for activation by an external switch. Plant 750 use these terminals for the emergency start switch. Wiring from the emergency switch has a 5 amp fuse.
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Old 01-11-2021, 06:30 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryFolk19 View Post
I wish I had better schematics to my BIM and the Disconnect signaling but.. I've reached out to Thor to see if they have more detailed drawings than the ones I downloaded.

What happen was my MH was plugged in to shore and the disconnect was pushed causing the the convert to only go to house 12v bus panel and NOT connect to battery for charging. it then killed both the chassis and the house batteries due to the few items they have on the battery side that drains the battery such as the inverter control panel because wasn't off.

Yes I had to get external car charger with extension cord and charged up the chassis battery to get the house batteries charged. I couldn't even start the MH.

What your saying about this BIM this should not have happen the BIM should have NOT had both batteries connected resulting in both being drained dead correct?

Here is how the BIM should be wired. There have been several incidents where the BIM was wired incorrectly. Here is a picture of how it should be wired.

I spoke to Precision Industries, the manufacturer of the BIM, and they said the wiring should not matter how it is wired but myself and some others on this Forum proved it can and does matter.

On several coaches Thor has the house batteries connected to the post shown as Chassis Bat post on this picture and the chassis battery on the Coach Bat post. It was creating issues with the way the BIM performed.

Once I wired my coach to look like this picture, it has worked flawlessly. A few others have posted the same results. The schematics show it wired incorrectly based on my experienc with the BIM.

You may want to check your BIM wiring (assuming you have the BIM and not the BIRD).

In case you did not know, you can go to this website, register and download all of the documents for your coach; including your schematics.

https://www.thormotorcoach.com/owners/
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Old 01-13-2021, 09:24 PM   #40
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Model: ACE 30.3
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THOR #10883
Store/use

I believe you might have a miss wire on the transfer switch. On mine weather or not you have moved the switch manually when plugged in it changes to use. The inverter part is not automatic on my unit, you have to turn it on on its control panel. It has a readout of the battery voltage also. So that's shore power. When not connected or generating, just driving then you have to manually change to use mode or the radio and dash outlets and coach lights all that stuff won't work if you don't put it in use manually.
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