5 star tuning?

[t0lbert]

is this really a must have? there has to be a cheaper way than spending $500 on a one time tuner to make it better?


can anyone please explain these?

[ducksface]

It's been determined(on this forum) that if you have a six speed transmission the tuner has no value other than:
Seat of the pants
Feel good
Racing stripe
Laboratory minutiae
redolence

If you have an earlier trans the tuner helps change shift points and trans pressures to improve drivability.

[Judge]

Do your home work. Tune's can be good... bad.... or indifferent. I'll give you a couple of real-world examples.

I have a 2018 GMC Canyon with the 2.8L (4cyl) Duramax Diesel w/ an Allison transmission. I love this little truck and it can tow 7600lbs. I just put a Green Diesel Engineering tune in it a couple months ago.

We had a 2013 Silverado that got 12MPG around town and about 8MPG towing our snowmobile trailer. The GMC Canyone gets 25MPG around town and 12 - 14MPG towing the snowmobile trailer. I was getting about 30MPG on the highway.

Before the tune when we would drive from Pittsburgh, PA to Cape Coral, FL and I would have to stop twice to fillup to cover 1200 miles. After the GDE Tune I am able to make it on one stop.

The tune pushed the fuel econonmy up to 34 - 36MPG on the highway. It also added about 40HP and 70FT-LBS of torque. I immediately felt a difference in throttle response and shifting. To me the tune was worth every dollar.

I also did install the Five Star Tune when I had an Outlaw 29H with the V10. I think it did improve the torque and shifting curve when merging onto the highway and climbing hills and it helped with the high-revving. But I also took a slight hit on fuel economy with the tune as well. I am not sure the Five Star Tune was necessarily a game changer the way the tune was for my GMC Canyon.

That being said... it is my opion that when you get a motorhome over 10,000lbs, a diesel is the best power plant with the best performance for heavy vehicles. I just can't believe the difference in power, performance and fuel economy with the 6.7L PowerStroke in my Magnitude that weight about 5000lbs more than my old Outlaw with the V10.

[JamieGeek]

There was a tech on here who said the 5-star wasn't the best tune (of course he was making his own tunes for his RV--wasn't selling them, just for his personal use but he was qualified to make that assessment, however).

When we had a 5th wheel I put a 5-Star on our F-350. 5-Star sent us two tunes: an economy one and a performance/towing one. I liked the performance one so much I left that in the truck all the time. Consequently I saw no increase in mpg (perhaps less since it encouraged me to drive more like a nutjob than not LOL). It did feel better towing the 5er around but a simple throttle re-map could have done that too; simply bringing power on quicker.

So yeah: more seat of the pants feel than anything empirical.

[jannnda]

I didn’t use 5 Star but I did use SCT for my 2018 Hurricane 31Z. The sifting was greatly improved. The power seemed better but that may have been because of the transmission sifted when it should have. MPG didn’t change. I would do it again.

[DavidEM]

The chassis builders tune their OEM engines to meet power, torque, emissions and longevity objectives. Sometimes it is a compromise between these, others it is an absolute with emissions.

I can't envision a third party tune doing it better than the OEM engine unless something like emissions or longevity is compromised and that to me isn't better.

David

[ducksface]

My cat can jump flat footed onto the tailgate of my truck.
My guinea pig, not so much.
Both have four legs and make loud sounds, followed by squishy sounds, when you step on them.


I hope the conversation is about guinea pigs.
The op didnt say what or why.

If It's a generic tuner question then yes, Bob and I both have great stories to tell of SPECIFIC EXAMPLES. I also have stories to tell of SPECIFIC EXAMPLES where $550 didn't buy 3hp and raised the torque curve rpm out of normal driving range.
Think full race and 3/4 race cams of old. First I hate those 'stripes make it go faster' terms and second my chevy mouse profile hasn't the single damndest thing to do with your elephant or your pontiac ohc 6.

I have 3rd party tuners on three current vehicles. One added lots of horsepower/torque and raised the mpg from 10.5 to 14. Another vehicle and it added nothing except shift point controls which is worthless except for butt feel and it adds the ability to adjust the speedometer to tire size, so it has a value, though diminished compared to the claims. Both tuners promised the moon, one delivered.

I don't/won't have one on the ford v10 six speed because even the tuners own chart says their boyracer increases are felt, not found. There is very little way to wring anything out of our already close to maxxed out v10 and ecm.

[Beau388]

5-Star is much more than one tune. It took me three tunes to get me what I wanted. 5 Star will work with you until you are satisfied with the throttle response and the shifting pattern you want. If you are looking for a noticeable power increase, this is not what you want.

[ducksface]

Beau,
Is yours a five or six speed?

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by ducksface

Beau,
Is yours a five or six speed?

Sept 2015 F-53 chassis, November 2015 house (Hurricane 31S). Purchase Jan 26, 2016. Yes it is a early 6-sp in the 18,000 lb chassis with the 190' wheelbase. Contacted 5-Star in April 2016 after a 6,400 trip (KY to Key West, San Antonio, Tombstone and back to KY). The original shifting profile was terrible, the first one from 5-Star wasn't much better, the next one was too aggressive and the third was just right. They hit the downshift and up shift points perfectly at 3/4 throttle and still kept the tap to downshift with brake. I also like immediate response of the throttle and the torque reduction before shifts at full throttle. With the Sumo Maxiums and rear track bar it handles just like my 1965 Corvair a lot of overseer just before loss of traction. No noticeable wander or sway with 6 degrees of caster and 1/16" of toe. I really wish I could adjust the rear toe and camber. To make the steering more responsive and a dual clutch (DSG) automatic would also be nice.

[Britman55]

I installed the 5 Star on my 2019 Outlaw and I am happy with the cost to achieve better throttle response and shifting under certain road conditions. I did not expect that it would make a huge difference in horsepower. For me it was a good investment.

[DavidEM]

Originally Posted by Beau388

With the Sumo Maxiums and rear track bar it handles just like my 1965 Corvair a lot of overseer just before loss of traction. No noticeable wander or sway with 6 degrees of caster and 1/16" of toe. I really wish I could adjust the rear toe and camber. To make the steering more responsive and a dual clutch (DSG) automatic would also be nice.

Driving a MH with lots of oversteer to the point of loss of traction just sounds scary. Takes a very good or very crazy driver to do it .

I bet the 6 deg of caster did a lot to improve road feel.

David

[Pete'sMH]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

Driving a MH with lots of oversteer to the point of loss of traction just sounds scary. Takes a very good or very crazy driver to do it .



I bet the 6 deg of caster did a lot to improve road feel.



David

That’s what I was thinking. Lots of oversteer can get very scary (and dangerous!) really fast.

[Lt Keefer]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

The chassis builders tune their OEM engines to meet power, torque, emissions and longevity objectives. Sometimes it is a compromise between these, others it is an absolute with emissions.

I can't envision a third party tune doing it better than the OEM engine unless something like emissions or longevity is compromised and that to me isn't better.

David

Bingo

[ducksface]

Originally Posted by Lt Keefer

Bingo

I'm pretty sure the 75hp I pulled out of the 8 liter is real. There is more but it requires bigger injectors.
As is the 4mpg it picked up.

As are the millions of documented cases.

Some engines respond, like my 8.1 liter, some don't, like the ford v10.
Ford v10, at the end of its sales cycle, is already maxxed out.

Maximums are not what manufacturers are about,
Development requires a path to the max over an eventuality or there is stagnation.
Their tax credits do not come from initiation, they come from improvement.
Their marketing does not allow their 8 liter to get better fuel mileage than their 6 liter.
'New and improved' requires room for improvement. 2021 has 3hp more than the 2020.

There are subtlties spread over decades.

It is not a consumer thing. It is not a thing for a consumer to know about or care about. There are parameters and metrics and restrictions you'll never know.

Just know;
Your guess is wrong.

Beau might know this:
Simply turning a screw on the waste gate of an xr4ti added 100hp and about .5mpg in town. A flash and no aircleaner got you 200 added hp. Same with that cool little European ford escort.


I think the Mitsubishi dual turbo awd coupe did the same.

I know removing the aircleaner from the twin stick turbo colt added 20hp and about 500 rpm when it didn't purposefully starve itself for air.

(There's a hidden boost for our v10. If you can hold the pedal to the floor for 61 seconds while under heavy load a whole new power system opens up in the fuel programming.
I managed it once on the hill going east into Lukachucki on the Navajo res headed from az to nm.
It went from maxxed out 22mph to 35mph in a blink. The roar was startling and I backed off the pedal in surprise. I'm not sure tuners can access it.)

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by Pete'sMH

That’s what I was thinking. Lots of oversteer can get very scary (and dangerous!) really fast.

If you don't know where the vehicle looses traction, what are you going to do when you have to make an emergency maneuver? I thought that was the reason for big empty parking lots. You need to measure the stopping distance from what ever you think is a safe cruising speed and feel the anti-lock kick-in. It will also show you what needs to be tied-down better. If that scares, you start at 20 mph or so on a dirt road to build up your confidence. Cars with terminal over-steer will always beat a similarly powered car with terminal under-steer on a tight gymkhana course. Neutral steer would be nice but it is never going to happen with 12,000 lbs on the 4 rear tires and 6,000 lbs on the front tires with 11' 9" rear overhang.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by ducksface

I'm pretty sure the 75hp I pulled out of the 8 liter is real. There is more but it requires bigger injectors.
As is the 4mpg it picked up.

As are the millions of documented cases.

Some engines respond, like my 8.1 liter, some don't, like the ford v10.
Ford v10, at the end of its sales cycle, is already maxxed out.

Maximums are not what manufacturers are about,
Development requires a path to the max over an eventuality or there is stagnation.
Their tax credits do not come from initiation, they come from improvement.
Their marketing does not allow their 8 liter to get better fuel mileage than their 6 liter.
'New and improved' requires room for improvement. 2021 has 3hp more than the 2020.

There are subtlties spread over decades.

It is not a consumer thing. It is not a thing for a consumer to know about or care about. There are parameters and metrics and restrictions you'll never know.

Just know;
Your guess is wrong.

Beau might know this:
Simply turning a screw on the waste gate of an xr4ti added 100hp and about .5mpg in town. A flash and no aircleaner got you 200 added hp. Same with that cool little European ford escort.


I think the Mitsubishi dual turbo awd coupe did the same.

I know removing the aircleaner from the twin stick turbo colt added 20hp and about 500 rpm when it didn't purposefully starve itself for air.

(There's a hidden boost for our v10. If you can hold the pedal to the floor for 61 seconds while under heavy load a whole new power system opens up in the fuel programming.
I managed it once on the hill going east into Lukachucki on the Navajo res headed from az to nm.
It went from maxxed out 22mph to 35mph in a blink. The roar was startling and I backed off the pedal in surprise. I'm not sure tuners can access it.)

My folks had a Holiday Rambler, that had a Mopar 440 in it...

Bone stock: it was a dog; that only got 4mpg.
They had a Gale Banks system installed in it, and it woke that engine up!
They almost doubled their fuel economy, and had the power to tackle some major headwinds down in Texas, and still be able to stay with the traffic around them.

[ducksface]

Bob is of course correct.
And before the 440 they were doping horses and lowering chariot and driver weights 3,000 years ago.

Ford and others work toward the average use. Even then on their thunderbolt lightweights and even now on their top hp mustangs, they build average vehicles.
Average means mediocre.

Your engine and suspension comprise a mediocre level KIT.
Make.It.Yours.

(That 715hp production mustang is a mediocre 905hp mustang)

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by ducksface

Bob is of course correct.
And before the 440 they were doping horses and lowering chariot and driver weights 3,000 years ago.

Ford and others work toward the average use. Even then on their thunderbolt lightweights and even now on their top hp mustangs, they build average vehicles.
Average means mediocre.

Your engine and suspension comprise a mediocre level KIT.
Make.It.Yours.

(That 715hp production mustang is a mediocre 905hp mustang)

You gotta drive a Shelby GT350R to see just how good a car Ford can build. That flat crank 5.2 at 8,000 rpm with open headers with a 6 speed manual and rev matching. I rented one for a couple hours at the New Braunfels track (Harris Hill)

[ducksface]

So, a mustang story.
I'm in lake havasu city where the car rental places are lucky to have 4 cars apiece.
I had reserved some little car, something with a cvt for a trip up hiway 1 from about Carlsbad(its in pieces down there) up to Victoria in the year the hertz gth mustangs came out, maybe 12 years ago. I don't know modern cars well, but it was whatever year hertz bought the mustangs,

I arrive the rental place to pickup the little cvt nd they have one of the hertz gt mustangs there with 1500 miles on it.
Rental guy says I can have it instead, no upcharge.

I said no.
I was loooking forward to calm and no temptations and being incognito instead of drawing a crowd at every stop and traffic light.

I know the mustang you typed about is very very nicely executed vehicle.
I also know they stopped fairly short of maximum handling and power.
A pulley change, a gear change, brakes. Very very good, but set to be not the max, but at a point of reliability for people who steer instead of drive, and for lending it to your idiot brother-in-law who wouldn't know an rpm limiter from an ass-gasket.

They can't limit who they sell to, so they limit the car.
Not everyone knows how to set a clutch or warm up good brake pads.

Another quick rental story.
We rented a car for the 2100+ mile one-way trip to buy our 24.1 .
They tell us they only have a yaris if we want it today. I'm ok with that. A pokey car driven to its limit is just as fun to me as my lancia stratos was.

We get there, they're swamped unexpectedly on a sunday.
One of the customers can't figure out the seat in what they rented, I said:
'Go ahead and work the counter, I'll show him how to work the seat while were waiting'

Our turn at the counter
Up drives a new infinity Q30. Came in on a one-way drop off.
Ours for the yaris price.
It was a great trip except we were in a hurry and stayed on the interstates.