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Old 12-02-2020, 01:35 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Forest Grump View Post
Ok I know something and Iím evidently dangerous. So explain to me your theory on circuit breakers and their purpose please, Iím intrigued.

Both of u guys, Iím waiting.
Ohh! Ohh! Mr. Kotter!!!



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A circuit breaker is designed to prevent trouble. It is an automatic circuit protection system that monitors the circuit it is connected to. Should there be an overload, the breaker will ďtripĒ, or instantly shut off the affected circuit.
The circuit starts with the wire connected to the load side of the circuit breaker.
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Old 12-02-2020, 01:45 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Forest Grump View Post
Ok I know something and Iím evidently dangerous. So explain to me your theory on circuit breakers and their purpose please, Iím intrigued.



Both of u guys, Iím waiting.


Assuming you used 12 ga romex which is appropriate for a 20A circuit your AC will run fine. If a fault develops in the AC or if road vibrations wear a hole in your wiring there will be short. Then your romex will be carrying more than 20A and it will get hot and melt the insulation possibly causing a fire. If you are using a pedestalís 50A outlet (or the 30A one) with a 20A adapter the breaker wonít trip unless itís asked to provide more than 50A. There is nothing protecting your romex. Adding a separate 20A breaker at the coachís new 20A power inlet requires only a $15 box and a $5 breaker. If you only ever plug your AC into the pedestal 20A outlet this added breaker is not needed. It wonít hurt anything but isnít needed because the pedestalís 20A outlet has a 20A breaker. If you used 14ga romex instead of 12 your breaker should be a 15A. Using adapter dog bones is not actually allowed by the electrical code for these reasons but I feel ok doing it occasionally with my set up.
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Old 12-02-2020, 04:08 AM   #43
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Assuming you used 12 ga romex which is appropriate for a 20A circuit your AC will run fine. If a fault develops in the AC or if road vibrations wear a hole in your wiring there will be short. Then your romex will be carrying more than 20A and it will get hot and melt the insulation possibly causing a fire. If you are using a pedestalís 50A outlet (or the 30A one) with a 20A adapter the breaker wonít trip unless itís asked to provide more than 50A. There is nothing protecting your romex. Adding a separate 20A breaker at the coachís new 20A power inlet requires only a $15 box and a $5 breaker. If you only ever plug your AC into the pedestal 20A outlet this added breaker is not needed. It wonít hurt anything but isnít needed because the pedestalís 20A outlet has a 20A breaker. If you used 14ga romex instead of 12 your breaker should be a 15A. Using adapter dog bones is not actually allowed by the electrical code for these reasons but I feel ok doing it occasionally with my set up.
Since u were nice iíll be nice too.

You are missing something in your logic but I would like to wait for pork chop to comment further before I answer. He was mean and quite rude so Iím waiting to see his brilliant comment. Hammer time!
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Old 12-02-2020, 01:51 PM   #44
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Old 12-02-2020, 04:31 PM   #45
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Mean & rude? You made a comment that showed you did not understand how circuit breakers worked, nor understood the purpose of breakers. Maybe I'm wrong, we shall see.

The common circuit breakers we see every day are inverse time breakers, not instantaneous breakers. They are allowed by NEMA to hold at 125% of design current ratings for up to 7 minutes before tripping. These design standards are all in "The White Book" published every 3 years. They operate using a bi-metal strip for current sensing. A dead fault or short circuit will cause an inrush of current to allow instant tripping. This is all designed to protect equipment, not people.

Wiring up an adaptor as you proposed would allow your a/c to pull up to 125% of 50 amps (62.5 amps) for 7 minutes on your 15 or 20 amp wire. Can you spell fire?

I may be short and curt in my answers, but that's the way it is and I make no excuses. I also do not go on the internet claiming to know about things I do not. I'll be glad to argue electrical theory with you though.

Bill
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Old 12-02-2020, 05:14 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Forest Grump View Post
Since u were nice iíll be nice too.



You are missing something in your logic but I would like to wait for pork chop to comment further before I answer. He was mean and quite rude so Iím waiting to see his brilliant comment. Hammer time!


Well Iím not an electrician either and I too want to learn. Iím willing to acknowledge that you might be right because one of our members who is an electrician said rather emphatically that my breaker was unnecessary. I donít mean to presume on his expertise but I guessed that heíd also tell me to only use the 20A pedestal outlet and I feel like it is useful if I happen to occasionally use an adapter.
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Old 12-02-2020, 07:34 PM   #47
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Pete=I think what he actually said was that redundant breakers were unnecessary. And that is correct. The breaker you and I are discussing is different than that. We have discussed a single 50amp breaker being the only protection in the line. That is incorrect. If you were to install a 15 or 20 amp, depending on the wire size, immediately after the splice that would be correct and protect the down line wire and device.

For background=I am a retired electrical engineer and master electrician with over 40 years experience. I was licensed to both design and install in 18 United States, parts of Canada and parts of Mexico. Did not do residential work. Commercial and industrial only. My favorite was design/build work but we did installs for lots of others. Enjoyed it tremendously but got tired and decided to travel 20 years ago. Don't get my feet wet much any more and have decided 2020 will be the last year to keep any license in effect. Too costly to keep if you don't use them.

Like I said-sorry if you were offended in the beginning.

Bill
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Old 12-02-2020, 08:28 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Porkchop View Post
Pete=I think what he actually said was that redundant breakers were unnecessary. And that is correct. The breaker you and I are discussing is different than that. We have discussed a single 50amp breaker being the only protection in the line. That is incorrect. If you were to install a 15 or 20 amp, depending on the wire size, immediately after the splice that would be correct and protect the down line wire and device.

For background=I am a retired electrical engineer and master electrician with over 40 years experience. I was licensed to both design and install in 18 United States, parts of Canada and parts of Mexico. Did not do residential work. Commercial and industrial only. My favorite was design/build work but we did installs for lots of others. Enjoyed it tremendously but got tired and decided to travel 20 years ago. Don't get my feet wet much any more and have decided 2020 will be the last year to keep any license in effect. Too costly to keep if you don't use them.

Like I said-sorry if you were offended in the beginning.

Bill


I wasnít the one offended! But glad to confirm that my understanding and my wiring is correct. Actually, I suppose I should add a 30A breaker at the ATS for the same reason - to protect the 10 ga coach wiring that goes to the factory breaker panel. But I think Iíll take my chances on that 5 foot piece of wire.
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Old 12-03-2020, 03:07 PM   #49
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Late to the discussion but I'll probably install a second AC in my 30 amp MH. My plan is to replace the 30 amp receptacle at the MH with a 50 amp. Then run one leg of #6 wire to the existing 30 amp panel.
Install a second 30 amp panel and run the second 50 amp leg to that panel. I'll run new neural wiring as well.
On the new 30 amp panel. I'll install a breaker for the new AC and a breaker for the water heater that I want to get off of the original 30 amp circuit.
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Old 12-03-2020, 03:24 PM   #50
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Late to the discussion but I'll probably install a second AC in my 30 amp MH. My plan is to replace the 30 amp receptacle at the MH with a 50 amp. Then run one leg of #6 wire to the existing 30 amp panel.
Install a second 30 amp panel and run the second 50 amp leg to that panel. I'll run new neural wiring as well.
On the new 30 amp panel. I'll install a breaker for the new AC and a breaker for the water heater that I want to get off of the original 30 amp circuit.
You may want to rethink that.

Your way provides no path to run the second AC (or the water heater) off the generator and provides no opportunity to run the both A/Cs in a 30/20 amp site with no 50 amp service.

Adding a second A/C to an existing 30 amp RV is a great addition, but you have to think about keeping as many options available as possible.
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Old 12-03-2020, 04:00 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Down South View Post
Late to the discussion but I'll probably install a second AC in my 30 amp MH. My plan is to replace the 30 amp receptacle at the MH with a 50 amp. Then run one leg of #6 wire to the existing 30 amp panel.
Install a second 30 amp panel and run the second 50 amp leg to that panel. I'll run new neural wiring as well.
On the new 30 amp panel. I'll install a breaker for the new AC and a breaker for the water heater that I want to get off of the original 30 amp circuit.

Whatís the advantage versus upgrading to 50-Amp service? Are you saving significant work or cost? It doesnít appear thatís the case. And it could affect resale value versus standard 50-Amp upgrade if done correctly.
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Old 12-03-2020, 06:02 PM   #52
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You may want to rethink that.

Your way provides no path to run the second AC (or the water heater) off the generator and provides no opportunity to run the both A/Cs in a 30/20 amp site with no 50 amp service.

Adding a second A/C to an existing 30 amp RV is a great addition, but you have to think about keeping as many options available as possible.
I'll run the water heater on propane and I'll be down to one
AC again without 50 amp service. I don't see that as a problem.
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