Axis/Vegas Mods...1,2,3 Go.

[vkb]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Those images look like the rear model but the part number is correct for the fronts (SSF-106-40).

Here are the ones I put on (Sumo Springs)
and here they are on Amazon for about $160

They are sold as a pair so you only need to purchase 1.

Thankyou Jamie...so...you feel the 40 (500 lb ) is suitable for our use rather that the 47 (1000 lb) ? did yours come with mounting kit ?

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by vkb

Thankyou Jamie...so...you feel the 40 (500 lb ) is suitable for our use rather that the 47 (1000 lb) ? did yours come with mounting kit ?

Yes, the 47 may make the ride too harsh (everyone has been putting the 40s on in the forums here; would make an interesting experiment if someone would put the 47s on but that is an expensive experiment).

Don't need a mounting kit: unscrew the current bump stops and screw these in. Hardest part is jacking up the motorhome so that there is no weight on the front wheels (e.g. if you don't have the jack you can't do the installation). I had the guys at our storage lot do it--took them 30 minutes.

[petew]

Check eBay , I just purchased a pair of 40's for $113.00 shipped.
Brand new , I believe they had 9 sets left when I bought mine.
Just search eBay motors for sumo springs SSF-106-40

[vkb]

Originally Posted by petew

Check eBay , I just purchased a pair of 40's for $113.00 shipped.
Brand new , I believe they had 9 sets left when I bought mine.
Just search eBay motors for sumo springs SSF-106-40

Checked EBay ... best price there is from GotChrome .. $155 with free shipping. That is still a good price !

[petew]

Ebay auction # 161468480299

[upnyfolks]

I purchased a set from Ebay for 113.00 w/free shipping as well, I am going to install them when I install my front Hellwig Sway bar if the weather will cooperate.

[TyCreek]

Did any of you measure how much ride hight you recouped with the 500lb sumo's? Did you get your alignment checked after?

[vkb]

Originally Posted by petew

Ebay auction # 161468480299

found it ! SELLER is USPARTSOUTLET

thank you !

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by TyCreek

Did any of you measure how much ride hight you recouped with the 500lb sumo's? Did you get your alignment checked after?

Nope, didn't think to measure it before hand so measuring it now wouldn't provide any useful information. I suspect the front has been raised less than 1".

Haven't had the alignment re-checked afterwards either; frankly didn't even think about that at all.

[TyCreek]

One inch of front lift is a lot ... especially if near maximum load compression like mine! I'm having a tough time deciding between the Sumo or the more expensive springs. Any improvement to regaining design spec rake and ride hight typically improves handling. Raising the front should shift a little load rearward and have an increasingly positive effect to caster & toe. The downside is when this causes camber to go past 0 into positive (top slightly leaning out).

I too have some fear the HD (1klb) sumo might make the ride rougher, though the chassis rake correction might be worth it. My gut and experience tells me to be really "right", the springs might be a better long term choice.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by TyCreek

One inch of front lift is a lot ... especially if near maximum load compression like mine! I'm having a tough time deciding between the Sumo or the more expensive springs. Any improvement to regaining design spec rake and ride hight typically improves handling. Raising the front should shift a little load rearward and have an increasingly positive effect to caster & toe. The downside is when this causes camber to go past 0 into positive (top slightly leaning out).

I too have some fear the HD (1klb) sumo might make the ride rougher, though the chassis rake correction might be worth it. My gut and experience tells me to be really "right", the springs might be a better long term choice.

It's unlikely you'll see an inch.

Ford stripped chassis rated at 14,500 pounds GVWR have 5,000-pound front suspension with front springs rated at 418 pounds per inch on each side.

Assuming the SumoSprings that JamieGeek listed are rated 500 pounds per spring (not per pair -- it's not clear but will assume higher rating), it takes 2 inches of compression to get to the 500 pounds. The Sumo is 4-inches long and is rated at 50% compression.

So in order for it to lift motorhome an inch at rest, the Sumo would need to be compressed around 2 inches from the start. And if that were the case, there would be only a little over an inch of compression left before the Sumo would be damaged from normal use. They claim 80% compression without damage.

Bottom line -- if their specs are even close, it won't lift the motorhome an inch. The only way that would happen is if motorhome is overloaded, or coil springs have sagged permanently, in which case the Sumo would be compressed so much from start that it won't be able to handle the load for long without getting destroyed.



Please note I'm not suggesting they don't work as reported to increase roll stiffness, or increase damping rate. Just saying those particular springs probably won't lift your front end very much if that's what you are looking for.

By the way, I'm aware Jamie has E-350 chassis which could have 4,600-pound front suspension, although I think they all had optional 5,000-pound ratings. Regardless, it wouldn't make much difference. The numbers don't change much. My 2 cents .... I hope you get whatever you're trying to fix "right".

[JamieGeek]

LOL I did qualify that 'less than 1" '. I think Chance is right on the nose there: When I tried to take a look to see where they were installed (turning the wheels all the way to one side and looking underneath) it didn't look like the Sumo Spring was compressed very much at all (thus at rest not providing any extra support at all). Couldn't really get a pic due to location.

I did have a thought about coming up with an estimate: I haven't measured the height before hand but I do have these two pics:


I can lower the jack now and take a pic for comparison to see if the jack is more or less extended (since its currently parked in the same spot).
Even though I'm not sure where I stood I should be able to take the proportions (width of Axis vs width of jack). My guess is that they will be less than a pixel difference.

[TyCreek]

Right ... The "reference" of 1" is a lot. Real measurement would be frame to flat level surface or the much easier frame to arm distance before and after. The latter would also give some indication of carried load.

I just wondered if the compression at rest was enough to give any noticeable lift to the front. For sure this would be a factor of how compressed it ended up being in the specific rig. A small increase can make a big difference in handling when the suspension is already heavily compressed.

The progressive spring rate helps compression travel and eliminates abrupt bump-stop contact. This is a good for several reasons. However, I can't help think this is a bit of a bandaid to an underlying issue of less than ideal rake and ride hight that proper springs could "fix" vs. making a condition less bad.

[rvfigs]

I installed the front SUMO some time ago.

I didn't notice any lift at all.

I think Chance hit the nail on the head.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by TyCreek

....cut....

The progressive spring rate helps compression travel and eliminates abrupt bump-stop contact. This is a good for several reasons. However, I can't help think this is a bit of a bandaid to an underlying issue of less than ideal rake and ride hight that proper springs could "fix" vs. making a condition less bad.

The fact that they report spring rate to be progressive makes it impossible to fully analyze accurately without more information. Over the first 2 inches of travel, the average spring rate is 250 pounds per inch, and when adjusted for suspension geometry, I roughly estimate that spring rate over that first 2 inches increases by an "average" of +/- 50%. And that's a lot firmer ride if that's what you want.

Ford specs show coil springs designed at working height of 12 inches. If you go custom springs, do you know how much you'd want to increase ride height? And do you know how much stiffer (or softer for that matter) you want the front? I'm guessing you want to change both ride height and suspension stiffness.

[TyCreek]

The front on mine is quite soft and could be firmer without much loss in comfort. Dirt roads however could use a bit more travel.

Best I can tell from the bits and pieces for chassis various specs and interpretations, has me thinking a 1-1.25" body flare measured delta might be appropriate for my Axis. Comparatively the current delta to make the occupied interior level, is roughly about 2".

I'm cautious about heading the other direction with the 1.5" lift claim of the HD springs, though it's definitely a path I lean to. Convincing myself that we might have this RV longer than our history proves however, tells me to leave things alone because it's pretty darn good and fun to drive the way it is.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by TyCreek

...cut...

I'm cautious about heading the other direction with the 1.5" lift claim of the HD springs, though it's definitely a path I lean to. Convincing myself that we might have this RV longer than our history proves however, tells me to leave things alone because it's pretty darn good and fun to drive the way it is.

I can relate to leaving things alone if it's working. It's that old "if it ain't broke ....." I now find it easier to adjust my expectations (to a point).

I'm curious which HD springs you've looked at, and how much they cost. A lift would obviously give you more wheel travel before you reach bump stops. That normally helps off road. On pavement it probably won't help as much.

For an Axis/Vegas I certainly like the idea of getting entry door a little higher, which a front lift would address.

[TyCreek]

Several points of sale that I've seen offer Sumo, also offer springs such as these from SuperSteer (where I got the SS trac-bar): SuperCoils Suspension Enhancer SSC30

[croused]

Does anyone have a photo of Vegas 24.1 looking down on the roof? Im taking delivery in 2 weeks and want to see what solar panel real estate might be.

[JamieGeek]

Best I have is this one taken from the 2nd story of our house right after we brought it home back in 2014: