Best AGM Battery?

[Scubawise]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Very good, and my last warning and I am promise

Don't just put those fancy new AGMs in and do nothing different. There had to have been some root cause factors for why the Interstate batteries failed.

From reading tea leaves and not know a damn thing for sure my guess is the following.

1. You may have been relying on Solar to fully charge batteries that have been at a discharge state? I don't have Solar but not sure you want a maintainer like voltage trying to fully charge a battery that is at a discharged state.
2. You seem to frequently not only be under 12.2VDC for the FLA but often at 11.9 or lower Never allow your new AGMs go below 12.4VDC, use your AGS if you have to.
3. Make certain you have good converter charger with intelligent wizard to change the charge voltage based on how the batteries are being used.

Good luck, I know you are going to be happy on Day 1 with the new AGMs, but this post is about feeling the same way year 6.

Now if you don't mine I have to get back to my Grizzly Bear Self Protection Training. I was surprised to learn you can't climb a tree That was the 1st thing I would have done. Who would have thought those big arse bears could climb trees.

1. You may have been relying on Solar to fully charge batteries that have been at a discharge state? I don't have Solar but not sure you want a maintainer like voltage trying to fully charge a battery that is at a discharged state.
$$$$
No if batteries below 12v during day generator on.
Never saw below 12v during day and relied on solar.
This could have happened and not noticed.



2. You seem to frequently not only be under 12.2VDC for the FLA but often at 11.9 or lower Never allow your new AGMs go below 12.4VDC, use your AGS if you have to.
$$$$
Mostly at night during quiet hours below 12v & did not want to run generator.
With AGM will set AGS THANKS

3. Make certain you have good converter charger with intelligent wizard to change the charge voltage based on how the batteries are being used.
$$$$
this converter came with my 2020 coach?

Good luck, I know you are going to be happy on Day with the new AGMs this post is about feeling the same way year 6.
$$$$
Yes!

Now if you don't mine I have to get back to my Grizzly Bear Self Protection Training. I was surprised to learn you can't climb a tree That was the 1st thing I would have done. Who would have thought those big arse bears could climb trees.
$$$$
Yes we live with bears.
Many times cubs playing in trees and big bears run up a tree to get them down.
Extremely fast!

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Scubawise

1. You may have been relying on Solar to fully charge batteries that have been at a discharge state? I don't have Solar but not sure you want a maintainer like voltage trying to fully charge a battery that is at a discharged state.
$$$$
No if batteries below 12v during day generator on.
Never saw below 12v during day and relied on solar.
This could have happened and not noticed.

[COLOR="Dark Red"]Just so the point is clear, if you allow any FLA / AGM to go below 50% SOC ANYTIME; you are damaging the battery and it will quickly go bad beyond help.

This means for your existing FLA 12.2vdc is 50% SOC
For any AGM that you may buy it 12.4 vdc is 50% SOC; my coach does not require a lot of 12v demand so I recharge my AGM at 12.5 vdc (owners choice) Although I think 12.5vdc is highest setting on my AGS to have genset start for a low battery.

If you are getting close to those numbers (12.2 or 12.4) you simply DO NOT have enough capacity, or malfunctioning / poorly designed system[/COLOR]


2. You seem to frequently not only be under 12.2VDC for the FLA but often at 11.9 or lower Never allow your new AGMs go below 12.4VDC, use your AGS if you have to.
$$$$
Mostly at night during quiet hours below 12v & did not want to run generator.
With AGM will set AGS THANKS
[COLOR="Dark Red"]
Set at 12.4 vdc, not sure if your AGS has this feature but mine will read the battery voltage 2 hours before Quiet time is programmed to start and if low it starts the generator to ensure it is fully charged BEFORE quiet time start. You have Solar so you should be able to maintain your charge throughout the day; but if Solar is your primary charging system for batteries that are cycling down to 50% every night, you really may wish to ensure you have state of the art Solar charger?[/COLOR]

3. Make certain you have good converter charger with intelligent wizard to change the charge voltage based on how the batteries are being used.
$$$$
this converter came with my 2020 coach? [COLOR="Dark Red"]See above; there are low end converters and good quality converters with intelligent programs; it matters what / which you have; not that it was something on a 2020 RV. VMax tank made me get the model # of my converter BEFORE they would even sell me their battery. I have 2019 SOB and I know of at least 4 things that I thought were inferior quality that I replaced 1) NAPA FLA batteries (house only) 2) Insignia TV 3) Holding tank vents 4) Shower faucet[/COLOR]

Good luck, I know you are going to be happy on Day with the new AGMs this post is about feeling the same way year 6.
$$$$
Yes!
!

Comments above in bold.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

So... you're telling me you are using your batteries for a purpose for which they are not specifically designed??

I had a shop teacher way back when who would kick our butt for "using a tool for something other than it's intended purpose"...

I think the whole crew should pitch in and get you a few solar panels so you don't violate the rules... (I just can't help myself... )

What is my favorite quote?

Quality is Fitness for use

A square wheel is perfect on a boat trailer that is parked in an unsecure storage area on a steep incline.

But yes, Solar designed batteries whether AGM or Lithium will give you the best bang if capacity is what you seek; just like Golf cart batteries can maximize duty cycles.

Now if you can convince the team to pitch in, my Christmas list is below

- a 3rd wMax tank SLR 125
- one of those $500 Tire Pressure systems
- a working funnel that actually allows you to pour oil in a F-53 engine
- low profile Koldman AC units ( I need two)
- Magnum Energy 2,000kw Inverter

[Scubawise]

I have this converter. My 30 year tech uses this oil funnel
Good points Interstate agm are $350. If I trade up m9st I will get is $150. So may have to pay $200 for 100 ah upgrade per battery. Vmax pet battery is $93 more and 125 ah and solar capabilities

Will discuss with wife. May skip upgrade and do vmax

[Bill Johnson]

Every website I went to said AGM batteries are great batteries to use for a starting battery because the way the battery is made they all have starting capabilities. All I have looked at say 8 to 10 years life. I don't think it matters what posts it comes with

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Scubawise

I have this converter. My 30 year tech uses this oil funnel
Good points Interstate agm are $350. If I trade up m9st I will get is $150. So may have to pay $200 for 100 ah upgrade per battery. Vmax pet battery is $93 more and 125 ah and solar capabilities

Will discuss with wife. May skip upgrade and do vmax

Your converter is 3 stage automatic; and so you are good to go with it as long as it is working properly. Still leaves your Solar controller as unknown.

Thanks for drain funnel but it is too short. I have several already that I thought were long enough but not. I need 2 - 3 ft long funnel and even with that it will have a mini P trap of sorts because it has to come out of oil fill receptacle and bend down and then back up to gravity pour from qt or gallon container. What I have now is something that was recommended last year but I just got around to next required oil change this past weekend and what I bought was actually a lot worse than what I had the year before.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Bill Johnson

Every website I went to said AGM batteries are great batteries to use for a starting battery because the way the battery is made they all have starting capabilities. All I have looked at say 8 to 10 years life. I don't think it matters what posts it comes with

Where did you see someone say AGM batteries were bad for starting batteries?

I just provided the comparison between a Dual Purpose AGM and Pure Deep Cycle AGM. A dual purpose AGM is designed to do 2 things kind of well and a Pure Deep cycle is designed to do 1 thing extremely well. There are trade offs, but I want AH capacity for my RV House Application.

As far as basic AGM batteries go; my wife's Cadillac XT5 comes standard with AGM battery and it is beyond awesome. I love it; but its scares the living crap out of me every time I drive it, because when I stop at a red light; or similar it cuts off But it never fails to restart, and it does it so smooth you hardly know it cut off.

But for OP, that Auto AGM battery is not what I would recommend for House Batteries in an RV. I would get Pure AGMs preferable Solar to get maximum AH capacity. Not many RV owners can say they have 125 ah / house battery.
I can and that was my only point, that battery is a Pure Deep Cycle AGM.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

That would mean you could also also compare Dual Purposes FLA vs True Deep Cycle FLA. I don't know I have seen or heard of a True Deep FLA with the following?

Designed for Solar applications
Does not have any automotive post
Rated to last 8 - 10 years (more duty cycles)

Really?
You've never seen golf cart batteries in FLA form?

Designed for Solar applications - salespeak: doesn't mean a thing. Any rechargeable battery can be used in solar applications.
Does not have any automotive post:


True deep cycle 12 volt FLAs come with the same posts.
Rated to last 8 - 10 years (more duty cycles):



AGM is a construction description. A battery is either AGM or it is not. There is no such thing as "pure AGM"; and "dual purpose" applies to any category of battery construction, including FLA.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Really?
You've never seen golf cart batteries in FLA form?

Yes, and I have seen Deep Cycle FLA batteries, but I have never heard of any being referenced as Pure Deep Cycle.

Designed for Solar applications - salespeak: doesn't mean a thing. Any rechargeable battery can be used in solar applications.
Does not have any automotive post:

AGM is a construction description. A battery is either AGM or it is not. There is no such thing as "pure AGM"; and "dual purpose" applies to any category of battery construction, including FLA.

I agree that marketing is factor but they are marketing / selling the fact that it comes with greater reserve capacity not just the deep cycling ability than a Dual Purpose.

Remember when I referenced the lively discussion on the other forum, the points being made are the same.

But from my view as I read the thread, I was looking for a good battery that would give me the most reserve capacity in group 31. At that time the 125 ah SLR vMax tank was the best I could find.

Suffice to say to me, my takeaway is when it is referenced as Pure AGM Deep Cycle it is referencing what I bought. FLA was NEVER an option for me, as that is what I was trying to get rid of. My choices were between Dual Purposes AGM and (Pure) Deep Cycle AGM. I can concede you can take Pure out the equation; but you end up with the same battery. I think those that say Pure are simply trying to clarify that it is NOT Dual Purpose AGM because as you state they both can deep cycle.

[lwmcguire]

Interesting thread and i have read a few hundred on the forums over the years

In my personal experience with batteries in RV's and all types of equipment is that a battery with dual post has never lasted as well as one with post designed for the intended use

Now most of these dual post were low to midrange not high end batteries, something you cold pickup at a box store locally

[Scubawise]

The batteriesplus is 105AH AND vmax is 125AH for $20 more

Battery Type: Premium
Capacity 20hr: 105AH
Chemistry: Lead Acid
Cranking Amps: 1000
Lead Acid Design: AGM
Made in the USA: True
Maintenance Free: Yes
Marine Cranking Amps: 1000
Product Category: Marine/RV
Product Sub Category: Basic AGM
Terminal Type: DT, SAE/M8 Stud, SAE/M8

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Scubawise

The batteriesplus is 105AH AND vmax is 125AH for $20 more

Battery Type: Premium
Capacity 20hr: 105AH
Chemistry: Lead Acid
Cranking Amps: 1000
Lead Acid Design: AGM
Made in the USA: True
Maintenance Free: Yes
Marine Cranking Amps: 1000
Product Category: Marine/RV
Product Sub Category: Basic AGM
Terminal Type: DT, SAE/M8 Stud, SAE/M8

So if you need 1000 CCA, and okay with only 105AH, buy it, why not? But if you want a battery that is designed specifically for Reserve Capacity and do not care have a need for CCA, regardless of what some may call it; buy the vMax tank for $20 more that some reference as Pure Deep Cycle AGM.

[DavidEM]

I can give some specific differences in construction between general purpose FLA batteries and true deep cycle batteries such as golf carts. These are heavier plates to deal with lead sulphate sloughing off of the plates and more headroom below and above the plates to provide space for lead sulphate at the bottom and more room for electrolyte at the top.

Can anyone provide specifics for AGM batteries. I will say right now that I don't think there are any real differences in internal construction. All AGMs are essentially built the same.

The problems of FLAs sloughing lead sulphate and electrolyte levels just don't exist with AGMs. Maybe there are other things though that I am not aware of.

David

[Scubawise]

Dkoldman you are my wife's hero.

She wants vmax 125AH!

[Scubawise]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

I can give some specific differences in construction between general purpose FLA batteries and true deep cycle batteries such as golf carts. These are heavier plates to deal with lead sulphate sloughing off of the plates and more headroom below and above the plates to provide space for lead sulphate at the bottom and more room for electrolyte at the top.

Can anyone provide specifics for AGM batteries. I will say right now that I don't think there are any real differences in internal construction. All AGMs are essentially built the same.

The problems of FLAs sloughing lead sulphate and electrolyte levels just don't exist with AGMs. Maybe there are other things though that I am not aware of.

David

But I thought fla vs. Agm same 100 AH..AGM Provides more power and faster charging and sustained power?

[Bill Johnson]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Where did you see someone say AGM batteries were bad for starting batteries?

I just provided the comparison between a Dual Purpose AGM and Pure Deep Cycle AGM. A dual purpose AGM is designed to do 2 things kind of well and a Pure Deep cycle is designed to do 1 thing extremely well. There are trade offs, but I want AH capacity for my RV House Application.

As far as basic AGM batteries go; my wife's Cadillac XT5 comes standard with AGM battery and it is beyond awesome. I love it; but its scares the living crap out of me every time I drive it, because when I stop at a red light; or similar it cuts off But it never fails to restart, and it does it so smooth you hardly know it cut off.

But for OP, that Auto AGM battery is not what I would recommend for House Batteries in an RV. I would get Pure AGMs preferable Solar to get maximum AH capacity. Not many RV owners can say they have 125 ah / house battery.
I can and that was my only point, that battery is a Pure Deep Cycle AGM.

I said that AGM were good for starting. My wife has the XT5 I haven't looked at the battery, Yes 730 CCA and 80AH

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Bill Johnson

I said that AGM were good for starting. My wife has the XT5 I haven't looked at the battery, Yes 730 CCA and 80AH

Yessir, and I have proof that you are right. I just took this from my wife's car. Have you ever read the manual about how all of that auto starts works? It is simply incredible. It knows the battery voltage level inside, outside temperatures; so it know when to shut off off or note; and you get hot inside etc. etc. As son as you touch the gads it just starts and goes as if it were an electric car.

When and where I grew up a good working battery was a luxury. I use to drive my car to places and would never turn it off out of fear that it may never start again I would be out on a date, and the girl would ask why don't I turn the car off; I would say because whenever you want to go home and I am ready to take you; the real reason was I wanting to play the radio and the battery would have drained dead with engine off

Anyways... because I don't drive her car that often, it always amuses me how many times it stops & restarts. But that car proves definitively that AGM can not only start well, but they can handle many cycles of starting / stopping / restarting etc.

In my RV, I still have the OEM FLA for chassis, whenever it goes or if it starts to corrode leak etc like my House Batteries, I will replace it to with AGM, but reserve capacity will not be a priority. Some downplays the posts, but it is relevant to me, because the Chassis RV battery will need to be AGM with ONLY the Automotive posts, like the ones pictured in my wife's car.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Scubawise

Dkoldman you are my wife's hero.

She wants vmax 125AH!

You must not have told her the part about me be afraid to wrestle with the Grizzlies bears

Ironically it was my wife that actually encouraged me to pull the trigger. I have a tendency over analyze, but she knew I couldn't take monkeying around with those FLA anymore. The costs sounds expensive, but it is not, two tanks of gas over 8 year span. But when it ruined my new concrete pad for the RV it was Game Over. The Dual Purpose AGM versus (Pure) Deep Cycle AGM was a no brainer, I am very pleased; and I hadn't had to fiddle fartle around with the batteries since Apr 2021.

Be sure to take pictures of all of the wiring before you remove the existing batteries. And be extra careful to not touch any metal to possibly blow a fuse. Another reason why I don't like having the extra automotive posts that you don't need in a House Application.

You will soon be able to fall asleep while watching TV, wake up the next morning and be like hey I left the TV on and still be good to go. But don't leave the hair dryer on overnight

[Bill Johnson]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Yessir, and I have proof that you are right. I just took this from my wife's car. Have you ever read the manual about how all of that auto starts works? It is simply incredible. It knows the battery voltage level inside, outside temperatures; so it know when to shut off off or note; and you get hot inside etc. etc. As son as you touch the gads it just starts and goes as if it were an electric car.

When and where I grew up a good working battery was a luxury. I use to drive my car to places and would never turn it off out of fear that it may never start again I would be out on a date, and the girl would ask why don't I turn the car off; I would say because whenever you want to go home and I am ready to take you; the real reason was I wanting to play the radio and the battery would have drained dead with engine off

Anyways... because I don't drive her car that often, it always amuses me how many times it stops & restarts. But that car proves definitively that AGM can not only start well, but they can handle many cycles of starting / stopping / restarting etc.

In my RV, I still have the OEM FLA for chassis, whenever it goes or if it starts to corrode leak etc like my House Batteries, I will replace it to with AGM, but reserve capacity will not be a priority. Some downplays the posts, but it is relevant to me, because the Chassis RV battery will need to be AGM with ONLY the Automotive posts, like the ones pictured in my wife's car.

Just remembered they have a stop start eliminator on the market. Also if you want to get away quick let up a little on the brake and it will start without moving. I just hate smoking the front tires when I forget to put it into sport mode
When mine go I'll be putting in the AGM in, probably a few years. I have a new golf cart and I paid for them to put in lithium for 1,200 dollars but they keep saying they haven't got a delivery yet they are back ordered. They said they would give me my money back but I know that this battery comes in a special box and the complete on board charging system needs to be changed. I bet the price went up and it will cost them more money to change it than I paid

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Yes, and I have seen Deep Cycle FLA batteries, but I have never heard of any being referenced as Pure Deep Cycle.

Really? In almost every thread on this forum when a poster asks what to replace their house batteries with, and the answers discuss "DEEP CYCLE" batteries, it is almost always followed with the clarification to NOT get Marine/RV deep cycle batteries because they are dual purpose, but to get real deep cycle batteries like those used in golf carts. And then of course, the discussion turns to 6 Volt vs 12 Volt deep cycle batteries.