Best Lithium Values based on Capacity, Size & BMS Features

[dkoldman]

I have seen many good deals on various Lithium batteries and it is obvious to me that the prices are starting to drop again. The price drops are so dramatic from 4 years ago that I am working to convert my RV to support AGM & Lithiums.

There are so many brands, sizes, and capacity specification. I have seen several Will Prowes videos, while entertaining they don't leave me with answers. He has to balance his critiques and he is only focus on the battery(s) of the day.

I am looking to open up the entire spectrum based on what is good to buy? I don't acre to know if Battery A has bad solder, or if Battery B has a Temp sensor too close to a cell etc.

Assumptions

1. There is no specific capacity requirement, rather the most capacity possible to fit in the space of two Group 31 batteries or approximately in a area that is 20" X 20" and maybe 9.5" tall
2. Battery must have BMS with at least Low / High Temp cutoff
3. We are looking for value; so listing the most expensive battery possible is a nice to know for comparison. Name brand batteries are nice but name with no value is not the goal of this thread
4. Battery should have at least a 5 year warranty, and a method to actually contact someone if there is an issue.

To summarize and provide more context, in the last few weeks.....

* I have seen Lithium 100ahs for as low $150 with a number under $250
* I have seen Lithium 130ahs or 280 ahs in the $200 - $300 range
* Last night I saw 300ah that was only 15.2" wide and 1" of that were with handles. It was in the $500 range. I will post that battery as a starting point for others to validate specifications with the Mfg / Brand or find other Batteries that may be of more value.

Disclaimer: I have limited knowledge of Lithiums as it relates to RV, but it seems the battery I am listed may be part of a new normal, increased from 280 ahs to 300ahs and reduction in footprint.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...6Z9ZU9YKO&th=1

All thoughts welcome.

[DavidEM]

The most important feature to me is low temperature protection since it freezes where we live. Others like high temp protection is ok, but I can’t see how I will ever need it. Overcurrent protection is meaningless. That is what fuses are for.

Li Time makes some reasonably priced batteries with these specs, but not all have low temp protection.

David

[Scubawise]

10 Best Lithium Rv Batteries 2024 in the US | There's One Clear Winner | BestReviews.guide


https://www.bestreviews.guide/lithium-rv-batteries

[ducksface]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07ZJ...b_b_asin_image

This adds on easily to non heated batteries.
Hook it to your tank heater circuit.

[dkoldman]

[QUOTE=Scubawise;420604]10 Best Lithium Rv Batteries 2024 in the US | There's One Clear Winner | BestReviews.guide


[
None of the batteries fit my specifications or requirements. All 100ah options were tosses because I want the maximum for the space so only single batteries with 230amp or above were looked.

The batteries that are listed and 230ah and above are all of the older antiquated length and run $900 - $1,200. It is that kind of cost why I have vMax tanks today.

Thanks for list though because it is confirming what I believe a good opportunity is or will be.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

The most important feature to me is low temperature protection since it freezes where we live. Others like high temp protection is ok, but I can’t see how I will ever need it. Overcurrent protection is meaningless. That is what fuses are for.

Li Time makes some reasonably priced batteries with these specs, but not all have low temp protection.

David

Li Time was one of the 1st I added and price was reasonable compared to some of the crazy name brands like Battle Born and/or ReLiOn. If I ever post where I paid $1,000 or more to buy a 100ah Lithium, please have a welfare check dispatched for me. I think some of the Battery Mfgs have missed the email that the market has changed. They still selling what they made 5 years ago and at peak covid prices.

The Li Time I was looking at did not have Low temp not to mention 20" long, just like I refuse to EVER add water to a FLA battery, I refuse to manually shut off my charging because it is at freezing or below temps. My battery must have Low temp as you recommend and if it ever fails I will simply return under warranty.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by ducksface

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07ZJ...b_b_asin_image

This adds on easily to non heated batteries.
Hook it to your tank heater circuit.

I have added this to my watch list on Amazon. I also saw the same you sent that comes with switches. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZJL99HL...WxfdGhlbWF0aWM

I don't have a Tank Heater circuit in my SOB. Our tanks are heated by the Propane Heater that ducts down through the basement. This is a Mod that I may consider to have all of that heat redirected to the front of the RV versus the basement? This will help to overcome the large proportion of glass from windshield. I don't worry too much about a tank freezing because I will have winterized if freezing if even slightly in the picture.

But the heating pads are options I will consider for Lithium batteries. But I will focus first to ensure the battery's BMS will cutoff from charging as it approaches freezing.

[dkoldman]

Well this was kind of strange. It seems as if someone from Amazon was monitoring this forum. They must have seen where I pointed what I would buy if I had to buy today.

Well a little while I go, I had a 15 minute limited time offer to buy that battery for $430

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...6Z9ZU9YKO&th=1

I had never seen a Limited Time offer with a countdown from Amazon? Since no one above noted any issues with the E-LekTech I had singled out, and since I know David EM is an expert on Lithium; so I went ahead and bought as it did have his primary concern addressed with Automatic low temp cutoff.

So I will soon have....

- 300ah available capacity ( about 3 times my vMax tanks when they were new may be 4 times more now with older vMax tanks.
- 250amp BMS
- 75amp recommended charging ( I will have 50amp charging from my Victron Orion XS
- 250amp max discharge although I will never need anywhere near that in my RV, but I should be able to run absorption fridge and microwave off inverter at the same time with no issues
- L 15.2" x W 7.6" x H 9.8" maybe 2 inches longer than one Group 31
- SOC Indicator ( I will have Bluetooth SOC from Victron App but it is nice touch anyway.
- 56 lbs so I will gain about 100lb for my heavy toad
- 24 hour Support

I was not expecting to buy a battery today, but the deal just seemed to good, I read every review on Amazon and 3 was lowest rating. So it looks like I will retire my vMax tanks sooner than planned. I may keep them and put on a workbench in a shed to use with an inverter for backup emergency power, or maybe I find someone willing to buy them to make my deal on the E-LekTech even better.

[Chateau_Nomad]

First, toss "group size" out the window along with "ignition points gap" which faded into oblivion with the advent of electronic ignition... it's antiquated and no longer applies (unless you really enjoy looking up measurements and doing "group size" conversion). Just measure the area you want to use. Every lithium battery worth buying has exact dimensions specified.

The BMS being the brains of the battery are usually a third party purchase by the Chinese folks making batteries. One thing you'll figure out is the entire battery is only as good as the BMS. AND... there's only a handful of BMS makers supplying maybe hundreds of lithium battery builders. Choose carefully.

On heated batteries... when you start pricing, you'll notice the heated version isn't all that much more $$ than the basic one. I chose not to screw around with a separate project and just bought the heated ones.

Last - No one ever said "I wish I hadn't bought so many amp hours/watt hours". So... if the price is acceptable, buy as much as you can fit NOW. It's STRONGLY discouraged the mix different battery capacities and brands. I bought 100Ah batteries for the price of 200+Ah now... but I can't go back and stick a 200Ah in there now... READ battery cell imbalance. So... Buy as many of the largest capacity as you can fit.

Stick them in there and leave them be... no worries about freezing, etc. The reason I stuck solar on my roof is because it COMPLETELY eliminated the dead battery worries. I quit checking the SOC because it's always a boring 100%.

You'll also find that lithiums won't self discharge the way lead acid does. They can sit for months and lose very little energy.

[Scubawise]

Keep us posted of your mods and findings.
We camp a lot, 33k miles, 28+ states, Montana cold -32 & New Mexico heat 115. So far since may 2021 AGM vmax doing great. Like you solar 180W always tops off. 30 year rv tech said leave our fridge on propane when dry camping. Less worries, etc.
If fails, will review your information thx

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

First, toss "group size" out the window along with "ignition points gap" which faded into oblivion with the advent of electronic ignition... it's antiquated and no longer applies (unless you really enjoy looking up measurements and doing "group size" conversion). Just measure the area you want to use. Every lithium battery worth buying has exact dimensions specified.

I was using the 2 group 31s as referential to what I have now.
"ignition points gap" - this is new to me, so I can't throw out the window and until you explain it to me
Back to size, I was looking at a Lithium battery yesterday, that claimed to be 500ah for $277. The ACE looked at my link and stated they lied about the size. The had length 13.7" like a Group 31, It was rated for 400ah at the base 3.2v cells, I sent them questions to clarify but they never responded. I removed them from consideration yesterday.



The BMS being the brains of the battery are usually a third party purchase by the Chinese folks making batteries. One thing you'll figure out is the entire battery is only as good as the BMS. AND... there's only a handful of BMS makers supplying maybe hundreds of lithium battery builders. Choose carefully.

I hope E-Lektech has a good supplier. There were 28 reviews on Amazon and they were all good.

On heated batteries... when you start pricing, you'll notice the heated version isn't all that much more $$ than the basic one. I chose not to screw around with a separate project and just bought the heated ones.

I saw a few Lithium batteries that were heated and none of them was even close to my price point. I am not sure I will ever need heated pads, but if I do, what the Duck sent should work. If it is freezing outside, I don't think I will need the batteries to charge. With 300ah when it starts to freeze, I may be able to go 4 days? Surely it will go back above freezing during that span. Push come to shove I have a small space heater that I would likely just drop in the compartment if I really needed the house batteries to recharge. As long as I have a working low temp cut off, I will be happy. I may not want the batteries to automatically heat themselves if temp drop?

Last - No one ever said "I wish I hadn't bought so many amp hours/watt hours". So... if the price is acceptable, buy as much as you can fit NOW. It's STRONGLY discouraged the mix different battery capacities and brands. I bought 100Ah batteries for the price of 200+Ah now... but I can't go back and stick a 200Ah in there now... READ battery cell imbalance. So... Buy as many of the largest capacity as you can fit.

My original plan was going to buy 200ah just to beat my existing 125ah rated batteries. I got lucky as you state the 300ah fell in my lap and with a smaller footprint

Stick them in there and leave them be... no worries about freezing, etc. The reason I stuck solar on my roof is because it COMPLETELY eliminated the dead battery worries. I quit checking the SOC because it's always a boring 100%.

My EC-30 will make sure the SOC / Calculated Voltage never goes below 14% SOC, Victron Energy's DC to DC will send 50amps/hour. I can use bluetooth on phone to monitor all the specifics (not temperature), when on SP or the Genny the new Converter will calculate voltage and send proper current to recharge safely.

You'll also find that lithiums won't self discharge the way lead acid does. They can sit for months and lose very little energy.
It has been 5 years, we never had a discharge issue with the FLA or AGM, I can go months now with everything cutoff. My only concern has always been capacity. The AGMs for $500 3 1/2 years ago doubled the capacity of
the OEM FLA, and now the Lithium I just bought should triple the capacity of the AGMs, I can't wait to see how it works

Thanks this is kind of insight I was seeking, my comments above in bold. Not sure if you saw the battery I was looking at? By chance Amazon ran a special 15 minute sale almost $150 off. I bought this battery for $430, it is regular $579.

https://www.amazon.com/LekTech-LiFeP...0CM69TK9Z?th=1

Note: I still don't have my DC to DC yet, they both may come at the same time now? I will change my plan to have them both installed at the same time. My quest is going to be where to put the Victron Orion XS 50amp DC and if put the Lithium below steps or some place inside? I am thinking of three options right now all very close to the batteries.

1. Inside Battery compartment
2. In 1st compartment on the wall to the left side steps when entering RV
3. Inside RV in space area under the dinette bench that is closest to the steps. not sure I like having to take the bench apart to get access to it though.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Scubawise

Keep us posted of your mods and findings.
We camp a lot, 33k miles, 28+ states, Montana cold -32 & New Mexico heat 115. So far since may 2021 AGM vmax doing great. Like you solar 180W always tops off. 30 year rv tech said leave our fridge on propane when dry camping. Less worries, etc.
If fails, will review your information thx

We only run the fridge on inverter when driving. Otherwise it is always on propane unless we have SP.

I don't want to infer something is wrong with vMax tanks, they still work but they DO NOT have the same 125ah capacity they had 4 years ago.

What this is about is I am able to triple my capacity, save 100lbs, charge faster and more accurately. The new battery I bought for the same was only $430 compared to the $500 I spent on vMax tanks

4 years ago to do what I am doing now was at least $4,000 so I spent $500 and called it a day. Today total conversion cost looks to be $900 and $430 of that would have to be spent anyway at some points when the vMax tanks just can maintain enough capacity. Remember, I bought vMax tanks when my OEM NAPAs were still good, the NAPA batteries just did not have enough capacity.

FWIW, as I move to Lithium, given that I have never needed to top off, I should have even less need for Solar to top off. Now as the prices continue to drop, I can see where I might buy a portable solar panel system that I can use anywhere and on the fly. i.e Maybe next I keep & put the vMax Tanks in my storage shed and buy a portable solar panel system to keep those batteries charged? I could then connect an inverter to power lights and tools in the shed. I could also take that same system on trips in the RV.

[Chateau_Nomad]

These cheap battery mfgs use capacity as a selling point... but they can't cheat basic physics.

The ultimate end of story is actual real world measurement of amps by the end user. They ALL use the same cells... and you know the saying about 50# of H.S. in a 40# bag...

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

These cheap battery mfgs use capacity as a selling point... but they can't cheat basic physics.

The ultimate end of story is actual real world measurement of amps by the end user. They ALL use the same cells... and you know the saying about 50# of H.S. in a 40# bag...

I was told look for a weight of 23 to 25 lbs per 100 amp hour LFP battery with a composite, aluminum or plastic case. Same as 68 lbs for 100 AH FLA battery. As I understand it, there are only 4 or five manufactures of LFP prismatic cells in China, so the sizes of cells are limited. Of course a battery with 4 large cells would be more compact than a battery with 8 cells in the same AH rating, but the weight would be about the same.

[dkoldman]

I have 30 days from when received to verify. I bought from the Jungle store so it is easy to return, but truth be told I have never returned a battery in my life. I have had a few prorated and replaced but that was FLA and years and years ago.

I wish I knew how to measure capacity?, but again I have never measured or question the capacity specifications on any battery. My assumptions is if this company was doing something shady, they might have negative reviews on Amazon. Amazon shows they have listed / introduced this new compact sized model with 300ah in January of 2024. So that is 8 months.

The only way I know to test is to turn on outdoor fridge (residential), a few lights, turn on two TVs for 8 hours, and leave awning light on for 4hrs , pop two bags of popcorn and see what the SOC is reading. If I can do that 2 days in a row, that is all I need. With the exception of popcorn and no need for outdoor fridge as propane fridge inside was, we use to be able to that with the vMax tanks when they were new, it can't handle that anymore, Just one day and we are down to 12.3vdc.

Don't think I have ever camped anywhere in RV where we were boondocked in the same spot for 2 straight days without driving the RV somewhere, or without the genny auto starting because it was too hot for us.

I have to admit, I am anxious to see how it works, I was thinking I may not buy the batteries for a few months. I was actually gonna use this thread to determine what to buy, but this just fell in my lap.

FWIW: Return Policy of the Mfg involved

This item can be returned in its original condition for a full refund or replacement within 30 days of receipt. You may receive a partial or no refund on used, damaged or materially different returns.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Fully charge the battery to cutoff. Hook your inverter to the battery. Plug a kil a watt meter into the inverter. Then plug something like a 1500 watt space heater into the meter. Run until the space heater shuts off. That's close enough without making a career science project out of it. It's not perfect because it doesn't take into account the inverter conversion inefficiency.

You could also use a clamp amp meter on the positive battery cable to measure DC current. Then get the run time off the kil a watt meter and multiply.

Note... many lithium batteries go to sleep when a certain voltage is reached (controlled by the BMS). Use a jump pack to wake it up or it may not charge.

https://www.amazon.com/Electricity-M...2813183&sr=8-9

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Beau388

I was told look for a weight of 23 to 25 lbs per 100 amp hour LFP battery with a composite, aluminum or plastic case. Same as 68 lbs for 100 AH FLA battery. As I understand it, there are only 4 or five manufactures of LFP prismatic cells in China, so the sizes of cells are limited. Of course a battery with 4 large cells would be more compact than a battery with 8 cells in the same AH rating, but the weight would be about the same.

This battery is 56 lbs with 4 cells. I think at least one of the cell mfg must have figured out a way to improve the density and perhaps with less cost. The big brand mfgs and sellers may be looking at trying to reduce inventories?

Sounds like anybody with a plastic box can make these things if they buy 4 ready made cells and a ready made BMS?

If nothing else, I have some excitement coming up in next month or two. I promise the $600 - $800 I did not spend for Battle Born or ReLiOn will be put to good use on good quality beer and bourbon

[Chateau_Nomad]

My SOK batteries all measured 105Ah (1,260 watt hours) when new. I measured every appliance in the motorhome for amps with a clamp meter on the battery cable. Since I did all the battery cabling I eliminated any mystery drains. I recommend doing an energy audit to give you a real picture of energy use.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

My assumptions is if this company was doing something shady, they might have negative reviews on Amazon. Amazon shows they have listed / introduced this new compact sized model with 300ah in January of 2024. So that is 8 months.

If that battery was sold on it's own page then the 17 ratings could easily fall within the free/paid reviewers area, but it is sold on the same page as 3 other products, all standard 100 AH variations, so probably none of those reviews apply to the 300 AH battery.

I hope you get what you expect out of it but you gotta be in the hundreds of reviews to put a lot of faith in them.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

If that battery was sold on it's own page then the 17 ratings could easily fall within the free/paid reviewers area, but it is sold on the same page as 3 other products, all standard 100 AH variations, so probably none of those reviews apply to the 300 AH battery.

I hope you get what you expect out of it but you gotta be in the hundreds of reviews to put a lot of faith in them.

Good observation. It appears there are multiple selling pages and/or vendor for same product on Amazon.

The below is where I saw all referenced actual reviews for the E-LekTech 300AH as 5 star BEFORE I took the reduced price offer.

https://www.amazon.com/product-revie...ews-filter-bar

They actually specify which product, so after I had read those 5 stars my confidence went up. Even in cases where they have multiple products on same page it helps to show a pattern from Seller.

When I get it and if ANYTHING does not meet the specifications, I will not hesitate to send it back, unless the consensus tell me that what ever may be at fault does not matter? E-Lecktech was one of the few vendors that had clarity about what features were included and specifications.

I will return it if any of the below or other items fail

If it weigh more than 56 lbs
If it is not 3000 amp
If BMS is not 250
If it's length is not 15.2" and height 9.8"
If SOC indicator not or inaccurate
I can't test capacity or low temp cutoff