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Old 11-09-2020, 11:49 PM   #1
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Can you Daisy Chain a Surge Guard Power Protector with EMS?

Best way to ask this question is to give you context in sequence.

1st thing I bought for my brand new RV was the Surge Guard by Southwire 44270. It has worked great and I am proud of it.

Almost a year later, I have learned that as nice as it is; it is NOT a EMS, does not monitor loads, or show voltage / amps etc., I am looking at the Southwire Surge Guard 34951 model for 50 amps with Bluetooth but it costs $400

To follow where I am going you have to assume I am poorest RV owner in Texas

So here is what I am thinking to help justify this purchase. Suppose I use my existing Surge Guard like I always have, but buy the new EMS 34951 and plug it into the the 44270?

Given, both are rated for 4200 joules protection. If I have large spike wouldn't it destroy the basic $100 - 44270 and save the $400 - 34951? Or is it that if I get hit with say 5,000 joules; it will blow both at the same time?

By now my questions and reason should be simple and I don't come under fire for at least asking. I know the 34951 can protect for surge, but since the surge is destructive to the device, I am wondering if it makes sense to have both anyway? The 34951 can still do all of the other functions to protect the RV, but I would in effect have double protection for electrical spike.
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Old 11-10-2020, 12:06 AM   #2
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I also have a Southwire surge protector hard-wired in my rig, and I hang a Progressive EMS at the pedestal.
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Old 11-10-2020, 12:16 AM   #3
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large spikes are not the enemy. That is what a surge protector takes care of. In Campgrounds, Low voltage is the enemy. That is what an EMS protects from AND takes care of the spikes at the same time. EMS also protects from worn and miswired outlets. Surge protector does not.

https://rvmentor.com/2019/11/24/ems-...o0_1M3_i4tQ-P0

https://www.technorv.com/articles/do...rge-protector/
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Old 11-10-2020, 12:37 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavie View Post
large spikes are not the enemy. That is what a surge protector takes care of. In Campgrounds, Low voltage is the enemy. That is what an EMS protects from AND takes care of the spikes at the same time. EMS also protects from worn and miswired outlets. Surge protector does not.

https://rvmentor.com/2019/11/24/ems-...o0_1M3_i4tQ-P0

https://www.technorv.com/articles/do...rge-protector/
If you had both, and at a campground... Is it of any value to be able to plug the Surge Guard 44270 direct to pedestal and plug the Surge Guard 34951 direct to the female end of the 44270?

I am wanting to know if I could protect the EMS for spikes IF it were to occur? Otherwise, I have a Model 44270 that I could no longer use.

FWIW, on my 44270, I plug it in first and unless it is all green, I do NOT connect (had that happened once). But I have made it 1 year and my RV expenses (short of gas) have been a lot less than what I budgeted for, I am thinking about letting Bob buy me one of these things before he buys one of those RVs with Saunas
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Old 11-10-2020, 12:43 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
I also have a Southwire surge protector hard-wired in my rig, and I hang a Progressive EMS at the pedestal.
So you are already doing what I am thinking about

But is it in reverse? Meaning is your hardwired unit a EMS device too?

I hang Southwire surge protector (No EMS) on pedestal today. Thinking about buying Southwire EMS, but wanting to know if they could both be connected to pedestal, Surge Protector 1st and the EMS plugged behind the surge protector?

This is $400 investment, I have already spent $100 because not sure I will have any value for the Surge Protector if I buy the EMS.
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Old 11-10-2020, 12:43 AM   #6
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D,
If you're spending less than you thought: you're not doing it right...
30 amp... or 50?
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Old 11-10-2020, 12:57 AM   #7
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in over 6 years and over 110,000 miles in our diesel pusher we've never used any such device - it's not required, not mandated, not necessary, and generally just a big cost - but if you're 'proud' to have one, then get one. The rest of us don't need one.
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Old 11-10-2020, 01:07 AM   #8
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You may never have needed one (and I hope you never do!); but some of us are willing to pay for some peace of mind.
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Old 11-10-2020, 01:33 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurnerFam View Post
in over 6 years and over 110,000 miles in our diesel pusher we've never used any such device - it's not required, not mandated, not necessary, and generally just a big cost - but if you're 'proud' to have one, then get one. The rest of us don't need one.
Back in February before the Covid restrictions kicked in, we went camping at a RV resort off Lake Tawakoni in Texas. Picked a very nice waterfront site. Took 15 minutes backing in avoiding trees seemingly in the middle of parking space and low hanging limbs everywhere, but I digress.

I get out, level, and go through all of the changes and then decide to plug in, got some error on my 44270 . Called the Park Ranger and they okay'd moving to the the next site because I was able to plug in there and got all green. I never connect the shorecord until I verify but to your point only 1 failure for us in about 1 year.

Today, if there is something that I am proud of is my spending is a lot less than what we thought. i.e. They wanted $7k for warranty, I said then, I would spend $1,500 a year to basically self ensure my RV. My 1st year is up in 3 weeks, I bought the EC-30 and had it installed, bought the Surge Guard 44270, Chassis Disconnect Switch and I got about $800 left

This thread is really about me kind of wanting to buy EMS, but me not wanting to say I no longer need the Surge Guard 44270. If I felt there was some value using both it may be easier decision for me. Remember soon I will have no warranty, but I doubt warranty will cover electrical issues anyway. Surge Guard does offer equipment coverage if your their devices are used.

This is what I would get. Cavie seems high on Low (<102V) and High (>136V) Voltage Protection

I like that it protects in areas that my existing surge guard just indicate. The bluetooth monitor $50 option is bonus.

• LCD Text Display
• Low (<102V) and High (>136V) Voltage Protection
• Low/High Frequency Protection
• Open Ground Protection
• Open Neutral – Line and Load Side
• High Neutral Current Protection
• Elevated Ground Line Current Protection
• Reverse Polarity
• Designed for Outside Use
• 10-Second Startup Delay

* Bluetooth monitor that goes inside RV
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Old 11-10-2020, 01:35 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
D,
If you're spending less than you thought: you're not doing it right...
30 amp... or 50?
50 amp.

This is what I wanting to add to plug into my existing surge protector.

https://www.technorv.com/50a-surge-g...tection-34951/

This is what I have now.
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Old 11-10-2020, 01:41 AM   #11
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My theory behind using an external EMS at the pedestal:
I'd rather cut off the problem before it ever gets near my rig.
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Old 11-10-2020, 10:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
My theory behind using an external EMS at the pedestal:
I'd rather cut off the problem before it ever gets near my rig.
I almost got persuaded to go with the Hughes Watchdog EMS, but after my analysis I went with the Surge Guard 34951 and wireless monitor, it cost more but the connected equipment guarantee is awesome. Plus that Watchdog has a bright light and at night at home that would be distracting at the pedestal.

I got the Portable EMS so my next steps may be to cut the shore cord in the power bay and add new connectors so my expensive Southwire Surge Guard is always locked inside while my basic South Guard surge protector can be on pedestal. My last toy for Year 1 in my RV
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Old 11-11-2020, 04:58 PM   #13
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I have a Surge Guard 34830 30A portable EMS. Itís about 3 years old but Iíve not used it in over a year since my latest coach has a built in. It is no longer a current model but does all the right things and was about $300 new. I always was glad to have it on duty at the power pole. Iíll be posting it in our ďfor saleĒ section as soon as I figure out how. In the meantime feel free to PM me if youíre interested. Asking $100 including shipping to contiguous states.
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Old 11-11-2020, 05:41 PM   #14
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My hard-wired surge protector is a Southwire #41300.
It is also my ATS..
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Old 11-11-2020, 05:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkoldman View Post

I got the Southwire Portable EMS 34951 so my next steps may be to cut the shore cord in the power bay and add new connectors so my expensive Southwire Surge Guard is always locked inside while my basic South Guard surge protector can be on pedestal. My last toy for Year 1 in my RV
Update:

Versus cutting the existing 50amp shore cord somewhere in the power bay and adding two new connectors, I purchased the below 4 ft 50amp cable.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/253405319870

It is prewired perfectly for what I need to connect to ATS
It will also give me an extra 2 feet or so. I also purchased one female 50 amp connector. I will put it on the end of shore cord that the Southwire EMS 34951 can plug into to be locked in power bay I could also optionally allow the new 4 ft male end to drop through the floor hole and connect my main shore cord to it under the bottom of coach, and put the EMS on pedestal. My existing shore cord is just long enough to reach my pedestal at home when parked forward, but the extra 2 feet may prove priceless.

Note: I bought a female connector with flip up handle versus the knuckle grip because I want it to be easy to push in and out of the floor hole

So my future plan is this....

1. 20/30/50 Pedestal to Southwire Surge Guard 44270 (50amps)
2. Southwire Surge Guard 44270 (50amps) to Existing male end of OEM Shore Cord
3. New female end on OEM Shore Cord to Male end of New Southwire Surge Guard EMS 34951 (50amps) inside of electrical power bay.
4. Female end of New Southwire Surge Guard EMS 34951 (50amps) inside of electrical power bay to Male end of new 4 ft 50 amp shore cord.
5. Hardwire the new 4 ft 50 amp shore cord to Southwire ATS (50amps)
6. Connect Bluetooth Wireless Monitor to display inside RV in addition to display inside electrical compartment.

You can actually track KWH usage with this thing... so assume some guy from New York with a Tiffin had trouble finding a campsite in Texas? I could lease out my spot and charge him for the exact amount of electricity he used

Costs:
$350 for both Surge Guard EMS & Bluetooth Monitor
$35 for 4' Shore Cord
$15 for Female adaptor
$)0 I already owned the Southwire Surge Guard 44270

So $400 overall as I plan to install myself

Conclusion:
I will have the stated intent of this thread which is effectively to daisy chain both Southwire units so my cheaper unit serves some protection for my more expensive unit. Plus I now will have the Southwire Connected Equipment guarantee that reads any damage to any connected equipment through the Southwire 34951 is covered
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Old 11-14-2020, 08:30 PM   #16
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no benefit for both. EMS does the work of both.
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Old 11-14-2020, 08:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkoldman View Post
Update:

Versus cutting the existing 50amp shore cord somewhere in the power bay and adding two new connectors, I purchased the below 4 ft 50amp cable.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/253405319870

It is prewired perfectly for what I need to connect to ATS
It will also give me an extra 2 feet or so. I also purchased one female 50 amp connector. I will put it on the end of shore cord that the Southwire EMS 34951 can plug into to be locked in power bay I could also optionally allow the new 4 ft male end to drop through the floor hole and connect my main shore cord to it under the bottom of coach, and put the EMS on pedestal. My existing shore cord is just long enough to reach my pedestal at home when parked forward, but the extra 2 feet may prove priceless.

Note: I bought a female connector with flip up handle versus the knuckle grip because I want it to be easy to push in and out of the floor hole

So my future plan is this....

1. 20/30/50 Pedestal to Southwire Surge Guard 44270 (50amps)
2. Southwire Surge Guard 44270 (50amps) to Existing male end of OEM Shore Cord
3. New female end on OEM Shore Cord to Male end of New Southwire Surge Guard EMS 34951 (50amps) inside of electrical power bay.
4. Female end of New Southwire Surge Guard EMS 34951 (50amps) inside of electrical power bay to Male end of new 4 ft 50 amp shore cord.
5. Hardwire the new 4 ft 50 amp shore cord to Southwire ATS (50amps)
6. Connect Bluetooth Wireless Monitor to display inside RV in addition to display inside electrical compartment.

You can actually track KWH usage with this thing... so assume some guy from New York with a Tiffin had trouble finding a campsite in Texas? I could lease out my spot and charge him for the exact amount of electricity he used

Costs:
$350 for both Surge Guard EMS & Bluetooth Monitor
$35 for 4' Shore Cord
$15 for Female adaptor
$)0 I already owned the Southwire Surge Guard 44270

So $400 overall as I plan to install myself

Conclusion:
I will have the stated intent of this thread which is effectively to daisy chain both Southwire units so my cheaper unit serves some protection for my more expensive unit. Plus I now will have the Southwire Connected Equipment guarantee that reads any damage to any connected equipment through the Southwire 34951 is covered
I was reading the warranty and I see where if anything is damaged while using the unit it will be replaced at their discretion after you pay for sending all the things that were damaged. I could just see myself removing my air conditioning units, furnace, leveling jacks and shipping them to their office for inspection. To me this is a throwaway warranty. I have the same surge suppressor you bought and now I look at the warranty, makes me wonder. If the unit has a problem and you send it to them to be checked how long before they repair it or send a new unit. Do you continue to camp without anything while waiting for Southwire to replace the unit? I guess warranties aren't what they were before. I will say that I have an old Skill saw with a lifetime warranty. I called the manufacture and they just laughed that I might need a part fixed after 50 years
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Old 11-14-2020, 08:51 PM   #18
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But you've got to admit: it would be even more unreasonable to expect them to pay for something that they haven't had the chance to inspect...

"Buying a pig in a poke..."
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Old 11-14-2020, 09:09 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
But you've got to admit: it would be even more unreasonable to expect them to pay for something that they haven't had the chance to inspect...

"Buying a pig in a poke..."
Right but I don't think anyone would go through the trouble and not have a Motorhome to drive for months. I also noticed that anything damaged must be claimed through your homeowners or any other insurance a person might have before submitting it to Southwire. I notice that Hughes Autoformers have replacement surge units for about 33 dollars, I'm going to look into them. I like the Idea of a transformer (voltage booster) that turns on if there is low voltage instead of turning off the motorhome. Could you imagine if the motorhome shut down in 100+ degree weather and your pets die
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Old 11-14-2020, 09:13 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Johnson View Post
I was reading the warranty and I see where if anything is damaged while using the unit it will be replaced at their discretion after you pay for sending all the things that were damaged. I could just see myself removing my air conditioning units, furnace, leveling jacks and shipping them to their office for inspection. To me this is a throwaway warranty. I have the same surge suppressor you bought and now I look at the warranty, makes me wonder. If the unit has a problem and you send it to them to be checked how long before they repair it or send a new unit. Do you continue to camp without anything while waiting for Southwire to replace the unit? I guess warranties aren't what they were before. I will say that I have an old Skill saw with a lifetime warranty. I called the manufacture and they just laughed that I might need a part fixed after 50 years
I think they said "at their discretion" The also reference they may use a repair facility presumably for something like an AC which is not practical to remove to ship just for inspection.

I actually read the warranty BEFORE buying and it was the warranty that made the difference for me to buy the upgraded 34951; in addition to learning about situations of low voltage. Plus I like toys and I already like that really simple to use Wireless Monitor.

Actual warranty related to your concern below...
Southwire reserves the right to review the damaged Surge Guard surge
protector, the damaged equipment, and the site where the damage
occurred. Southwire shall not repair or replace any equipment that has
been discarded before Southwire has had the opportunity to examine it.
All costs of shipping the surge protector and the damaged equipment
to Southwire shall be borne solely by the purchaser. (Southwire will
bear the cost of shipping equipment from Southwire to purchaser). Any
repair or modification of the connected equipment or surge protector
by a facility or entity not authorized by Southwire voids this warranty. If
Southwire determines, in its sole discretion, that it is impractical to ship
the damaged equipment, Southwire may designate, in its sole discretion,
an equipment repair facility to inspect and estimate the cost to repair
such equipment.
The cost, if any, of shipping the equipment to and from
such repair facility and of such estimate shall be borne solely by the
purchaser. Damaged equipment must remain available for inspection
until the claim is finalized. Whenever claims are settled, Southwire
reserves the right to be subrogated under any existing insurance policies
the claimant may have.
I actually had my Southwire ATS go out this summer. I had to go a tad without it; and then I had to take to an Authorized Winnebago Dealer to confirm it was in fact the Transfer Switch. It took them about a week and half to replace.

Lots of sensitive electronics in an RV. It can costs $1,000s quickly trying to troubleshoot if you have licensed electricians. The $400 investment is solid to me given that I didn't see any of the competitors with similar connected equipment.
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