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Old 11-01-2017, 01:34 PM   #21
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I知 not very patient with mechanical things. I get frustrated easily when things don稚 line up or fit as expected. I知 also out of shape and have a bad back. But I was convinced the CHF was a worthwhile mod for my new Challenger.

Solution, I hired a mobile RV service (a guy with a truck, all the tools, and the know how) to do it for me. I had him install a Safe-T-Plus the same day, which I bought off Amazon. Two hours labor and I知 very satisfied. No down time while it sat at Camping World for a couple weeks or anything like that. He came to my house, was done before lunch.

The rig rides SO much better now. The play in the steering wheel before CHF was excessive, IMO. The sloppiness is virtually gone now.
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Old 11-01-2017, 02:22 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Chance View Post
A couple of good points were made in that article, even though caution should be used when applying race car dynamics to motorhomes. The basic theories apply the same, but the reason for making modifications is so different that they may not apply or make sense.

Very true! As you said, basic theory should be same, but reasons are Very different.



The first point I'd like to iterate is that anti-roll bar stiffness goes up by diameter^4 assuming they are shaped the same an made of steel. It's really easy to fall for marketing hype and overdo stiffness. When average buyers don't know this, they won't think they are getting their money's worth unless they see a huge size difference.

Again, I agree completely. This is why I still have the original ones on my rig. Hellwig advertised a Heavy Duty ( I think) ARB of 1.625". I measured mine and it was 1.6" as close as I could measure, so I let them keep theirs.

The second point which addresses original question, and as an engineer I've mentioned many times, is that anti-roll bars do reduce suspension compliance. As the article states, you should really want the least amount you actually "need", not the most you can get "cheap" just because you can.

Agree. In an Autocross race car, you really don't want very much compliance other than what the springs and ARB gives you. It makes the handling very consistent. However, most of those cars are only racing for about 30 - 40 minutes (SCCA) and no one is worried about ride characteristics. Motorhomes and touring cars have ride characteristics to be concerned with.

If a driver needs added roll stiffness then they need it, but while it may not cost anything monetarily, it will cost some in suspension compliance. It has to, there is no way around it. Ford could make anti-roll bars much stiffer for practically no cost, but they have to weigh all pros and cons, which includes how the vehicle rides.
Thanx for the input. Appreciate it.
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Old 11-01-2017, 11:27 PM   #23
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Lots of good info on this forum and I appreciate all of it. Everyone has given me much to ponder and pondering is what I am doing. I am waiting to drive the unit after doing the CHF on the rear before doing anything else. I went to do that yesterday but when I got to the storage unit the MH battery was dead. Apparently the radio was left on. I really don't like that Axxera radio because it is not wired into the ignition switch and I am never sure when it is off. This is not the first time I've had this happen. There is no plain simple on-off button but rather a power/mode button with no indication as to what mode it is in or if the power is off or on. I think I am going to put a toggle switch in the power line for the radio so I know for sure when it is off. All that is the subject for another thread though. Anyway, I haven't driven the MH yet but I am leaning to leaving the front end links as they are for now (I too am not comfortable with the extreme angle the links would be in) and if I don't like the handling will get either a shock mounted steering stabilizer like the Roadmaster RSSA or the Steer-Safe stabilizer, or get adjustable links to do the CHF. Will post how it goes when it goes.
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Old 11-01-2017, 11:51 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by USTraveler View Post
Lots of good info on this forum and I appreciate all of it. Everyone has given me much to ponder and pondering is what I am doing. I am waiting to drive the unit after doing the CHF on the rear before doing anything else. I went to do that yesterday but when I got to the storage unit the MH battery was dead. Apparently the radio was left on. I really don't like that Axxera radio because it is not wired into the ignition switch and I am never sure when it is off. This is not the first time I've had this happen. There is no plain simple on-off button but rather a power/mode button with no indication as to what mode it is in or if the power is off or on. I think I am going to put a toggle switch in the power line for the radio so I know for sure when it is off. All that is the subject for another thread though. Anyway, I haven't driven the MH yet but I am leaning to leaving the front end links as they are for now (I too am not comfortable with the extreme angle the links would be in) and if I don't like the handling will get either a shock mounted steering stabilizer like the Roadmaster RSSA or the Steer-Safe stabilizer, or get adjustable links to do the CHF. Will post how it goes when it goes.
Does your Axxera radio not light up on the face to let you know there's power there? Mine does. It's hard to miss when I look at the dash for any reason if it's powered up. Also, mine will not power up if the USE / STORE rocker switch is in Store mode. The radio is connected to that. At least in my coach.
Good luck with this.
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Old 11-01-2017, 11:58 PM   #25
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Now for CHF.

I have looked at this a bit and can obviously see different opinions. Imagine that.

I can see the links in question on the front to move the bolt.
Does this need to be moved with the front wheels lifted of the ground OR does it matter?

Looking at the back, I see nothing to move there. At least nothing that looks like the front.
What should I be looking for in the back? Does the back actually need to be moved? Maybe just the front will help?
Thanks in advance.
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Old 11-02-2017, 04:13 AM   #26
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Just looked under my 2017 E450 chassis, sway bars do not have 2 holes. Guessing I'm goj g to have to look into new swaybars.
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Old 11-02-2017, 04:25 AM   #27
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Just looked under my 2017 E450 chassis, sway bars do not have 2 holes. Guessing I'm goj g to have to look into new swaybars.
Its only for tge f53 chassis
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Old 11-02-2017, 10:13 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Tupelo Kid View Post
Now for CHF.

I have looked at this a bit and can obviously see different opinions. Imagine that.

I can see the links in question on the front to move the bolt.
Does this need to be moved with the front wheels lifted of the ground OR does it matter?

Looking at the back, I see nothing to move there. At least nothing that looks like the front.
What should I be looking for in the back? Does the back actually need to be moved? Maybe just the front will help?
Thanks in advance.
Tupelo Kid,
Tires and vehicle weight on ground for sway bar adjustments. If everything is as it should be, there should be very little preload on the swaybar with vehicle sitting level on ground.

With respect to the rear endlink connections, you remove the endlink bolt and a bracket and put the bracket back on in the mirror image of what you removed it, best as I recall.
You may have to look for them, but I am practically positive Halfprice posted photos of these in the "Jerry's Modifications" thread.
Hope this helps,
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Old 11-02-2017, 04:32 PM   #29
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Regarding my Axxera Radio. I do not think it is connected to the Store/Use switch in my chassis. Maybe it is miss-wired. I'll have to look at that. Also it does light up when the Radio is selected but apparently there is a mode is which nothing shows up on the screen. At least nothing that is connected. It could be for the cameras and is blank if I am not in reverse or have a turn signal selected. It has happened that when I was driving and thought I had the unit off but then when I used the turn signal the video for the camera on that side was displayed on the unit. I will have to study the manual more but it isn't very informative. Maybe I have the display dimmed too much but I thought I had it turned up. That thing is confusing and unnecessarily complicated.
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Old 11-03-2017, 02:44 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Wrpt58 View Post
Tupelo Kid,
Tires and vehicle weight on ground for sway bar adjustments. If everything is as it should be, there should be very little preload on the swaybar with vehicle sitting level on ground.

With respect to the rear endlink connections, you remove the endlink bolt and a bracket and put the bracket back on in the mirror image of what you removed it, best as I recall.
You may have to look for them, but I am practically positive Halfprice posted photos of these in the "Jerry's Modifications" thread.
Hope this helps,
Wrpt58,
Thanks for the information. I'll go take a look.
I do not recall that the rear on mine looked anything close to the front but I'll do more looking. Guess your telling me it's not the same.
Thanks again.
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Old 11-03-2017, 03:45 AM   #31
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Wrpt58,
Thanks for the information. I'll go take a look.
I do not recall that the rear on mine looked anything close to the front but I'll do more looking. Guess your telling me it's not the same.
Thanks again.
To do the rear is the same process as the front. The rear does have a bracket that attaches to both holes in the sway bar.

Remove the link bolt and move the link out of the way, remove the nut thats attached to a pressed in bolt on the bracket, Knock the bracket out of the sway bar. I used a wrench but a small hammer might work better. Reverse the bracket putting the pressed in bolt into the outside hole, now put the link into the inside hole. Blue loctite all bolts and torque to 66 ft lb s.

You might need a small jack to raise the sway bar. I used a bottle jack.

Ill post a pick of the bar ans bracket in a minute. easier to add pic from my cell. Again its a 15 minute job for me but Ive done it a couple of time.

Keep asking question if you dont understand something about the job


Jerry
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Old 11-03-2017, 03:53 AM   #32
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Wrpt58,
Thanks for the information. I'll go take a look.
I do not recall that the rear on mine looked anything close to the front but I'll do more looking. Guess your telling me it's not the same.
Thanks again.
Ir you look close to the bottom left in this pic yuo see the bracket has already been reversed and attached to the sway var. Notice the link is attached to inside holeClick image for larger version

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Old 11-03-2017, 03:58 AM   #33
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The pic was more to show the rear track bar i installed. I just cropped the pic so it will hopefully show you the bracket and link betterClick image for larger version

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Old 11-03-2017, 04:01 AM   #34
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And now that i look at the pic it apoears the pressed on bolt is what holds the link to the sway bar. The removable bilt holds the bracket to the sway bar.

Take a look and you will see what i posted and it should make sense to you when you are under the couch

Jerry
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Old 11-03-2017, 05:48 AM   #35
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To do the rear is the same process as the front. The rear does have a bracket that attaches to both holes in the sway bar.

Remove the link bolt and move the link out of the way, remove the nut thats attached to a pressed in bolt on the bracket, Knock the bracket out of the sway bar. I used a wrench but a small hammer might work better. Reverse the bracket putting the pressed in bolt into the outside hole, now put the link into the inside hole. Blue loctite all bolts and torque to 66 ft lb s.

You might need a small jack to raise the sway bar. I used a bottle jack.

Ill post a pick of the bar ans bracket in a minute. easier to add pic from my cell. Again its a 15 minute job for me but Ive done it a couple of time.

Keep asking question if you dont understand something about the job


Jerry
Hi Jerry,
Thanks for the info. I need to get back under the coach in the morning and look again.
I was under there a few days ago looking at things and I did see the place to move at the front.
I did not see anything like this sway bar on the back.
I'll take another look to be sure I didn't fall to sleep while under there and dreamed it was different. (GRIN)
Thanks again for you help.
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Old 11-06-2017, 05:50 PM   #36
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I took the MH out yesterday for about a 50 mile test drive. This is the 1st time out since I did the CHF on the rear and I was impressed with the difference it made. I was able to cruise along the interstate at 65 mph without any trouble. I need to mention that there was no wind and very little traffic. I was passed by only two semis and I noticed a little push from them but nothing like before the CHF. I did notice the MH tended to wander some, like it wasn't sure which rut to ride in. Based on today I'm thinking I will next do a steering stabilizer to try to reduce the rutting. Still haven't done the CHF on the font and am not sure I need it. Also want to see how a steering stabilizer performs before I go ahead with the rear track bar. Just a followup in case anyone was wondering.
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Old 11-06-2017, 07:29 PM   #37
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I have the same experience with mine. I don't have the money for the Saf-t-steer yet. However, I'm thinking the Sumo Springs will provide more satisfaction for me, if I do it first. I have to believe their installation will take out a good portion of the body roll in turns, especially sharp ones.
Halfprice, maybe you can weigh in on this thought.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:44 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Wrpt58 View Post
I have the same experience with mine. I don't have the money for the Saf-t-steer yet. However, I'm thinking the Sumo Springs will provide more satisfaction for me, if I do it first. I have to believe their installation will take out a good portion of the body roll in turns, especially sharp ones.
Halfprice, maybe you can weigh in on this thought.
Hard for me to say which is better or what should be done first. From what I have read every mh is different and needs different things.

Here's what I've done:

The dealer installed my Safe t Plus before I picked it up. So I cant give you a before and after opinion. I did do a test drive but it was all so new to me I couldn't tell the difference. It was actually the first time driving a mh.

I did front and rear CHF soon after getting the mh and before I did any big trips. So again I cant give a fair before and after opinion.

Rear track bar made a HUGE difference in handling in regards to passing semis and strong winds. Best thing bought and installed for handling.

I installed front Sumo springs a couple months ago but haven't taken it out for a trip yet. Because of the neck surgery I wont be able to do any trips until after the new year. Did a few miles around the house after the install and the Sumos stopped most of the rolling side to side. I'm real curious how and what it will do on the freeway. Track bar has done so much I don't know if I'll feel any difference with the Sumos. Maybe I will.

Guess my opinion would be do the CHF front and rear because they are free, rear track bar, safe t plus, then sumos. Each of these parts cost a round $500 each. But this is for my mh yours maybe different.

Also money plays a big part in what to buy and if you can do the install yourself. I don't mind buying parts but I'm way to cheap to pay someone to do the install.

I have said this many times I am not a mechanic and I have very limited mechanical skills. Doing the CHF was very scary for me to do if fact on my first attempt I stopped before doing anything and had to read more about it. I was afraid I would screw something up and have to pay someone to fix my screw up.

But after many hours of crawling a round under my mh and my buddies Fleetwood I very confident with a wrench now. At least for the CHF and rear track bar installs. CHF is only 15 minutes to do and I knocked out the rear track bar install on my buddies Fleetwood in 1 1/2 hour. It took me 1 1/2 days to do mine. Big learning curve. Again I'm not a mechanic.

On my buddies Fleetwood we did the CHF, Rear track bar, and safe t plus. He couldn't believe how well it handled after doing this. He said it was like driving a completely different mh. He said it was like driving a car now. He was very happy.

Jerry
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Old 11-07-2017, 12:11 AM   #39
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As Jerry said earlier, the CHF has been covered in depth over at IRV2. Lots of info with pics and links to videos. Here is the link for anyone else that might need it: http://www.irv2.com/forums/f23/cheap...fix-72335.html
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Old 12-19-2017, 10:23 PM   #40
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It has been a while but we got our motorhome back from the warranty service center and have finally headed South with the thing. While in the shop I had a Roadmaster Steering Stabilizer installed and I have to say it made quite the difference. It is now a much more relaxed driving experience and after driving for 8 hours the other day, even through Denver, I was not even tired at the end of the drive. There is a little push from some trucks and some there is none. Also some trucks seem to push more than a little. Crosswinds aren't that big a deal unless they get over about 30 mph. (We did have to pull off the interstate in WY because of 60mph+ crosswinds.) That was a bit scary. My wife even drove for over an hour, at 62 mph, in a less windy area and after about 30 minutes of getting used to the feel of the rig was comfortable enough to take a hand off the wheel to scratch her ear a couple of times. So what I have done now is the CHF on the rear and the steering stabilizer on the front and that is it. The rig does roll more than I would like and the suspension seems really weak so I am thinking I may want something to take care of that. I am also trying to figure out if a rear track bar will provide enough of an improvement to justify the cost and effort. For now though happily cruising to warmer destinations.
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