Stabilizer for Control

KNMIB · 03-28-2015, 04:44 PM

Has anyone installed a front end stabilizer to help steering control on wind and blowouts. If so what do you recommend and do they work?

FW28z · 03-28-2015, 06:51 PM

The conventional wisdom with the E350/E450 chassis is to do the following:

1. heavy duty sway bars.
2. Bilstein (or Koni) shocks.
3. Firestone Air Lift.

All may or may not be required, and I would start with #1 and work my way to the others.

I am on step 1 with my coach. I already bought the rear sway bar, and waiting on delivery of the front. I will see how that improves things prior to going on to step 2.

The Air Lifts are not so much for the weight handling capability but more for the ability to shift weight bias to the front.

Everyone I have ever talked to about the E series chassis has told me to replace the sway bars first, as apparently that is a well known fix.

So I cannot make this recommend from experience, but this is my plan.

evergreen49 · 03-29-2015, 04:47 PM

Which "heavy duty sway bars are you installing?

**EA37TS** · 03-29-2015, 06:03 PM

My Forest River Class C on a E450 chassis came with the Firestone Air Lift (Ride-Rite) in the rear. I noticed through trial and error during a couple of trips, that with 70 psi on both sides the ride and handling was significantly improved since the air lift transferred some weight back to the front axle and wheels. When I was not towing (I use a dolly) I was able to reduce the pressure to 60 psi. The max pressure in my air ride system was ~ 100 psi.

The problem you will have with the Firestone Air Ride is they bleed air over time and need to be checked periodically. Mine would bleed out about 5 psi per month. After I added valve stem caps (not included with the coach purchase) the bleed out reduced to about 2 psi per month.

One recommendation if you go this route is to use a compressor with an adjustable regulator. Just a couple of seconds with the air hose can inflate the bags well beyond the recommended max pressure.

FW28z · 03-29-2015, 06:52 PM

Hellwig 7180 rear and Hellwig 7718 front sway bar.

It's interesting that in the Class C coaches, Coachmen/Forest River and Jayco improve the suspensions, while everyone else should.

I did talk to my local Ford garage who told me that in addition to RVs, many of the conversion vehicles; delivery trucks, etc. also complain about handling problems. So the problem seems to be more than just the RV industry.

KNMIB · 03-29-2015, 09:37 PM

I was looking at safety plus steering stabilizers

FW28z · 03-29-2015, 10:19 PM

Not sure which would be more effective. I suspect everything you throw at it will improve it to some degree.

KNMIB · 03-29-2015, 11:20 PM

Looking for someone that has had them installed. Love your tag line.

thor293 · 03-29-2015, 11:26 PM

I have recently installed one. Not a lot of miles but maybe 50. It helps return you steering to neutral a little may help with sway some but it wasn't windy the day. I drove it. A blowout would be the biggest advantage you would find I think. I had a stabilizer go bad on my 3500 dodge and if I. Hit a bump on the highway just right it would throw the front wheels into a death wobble that would shake every bolt out of the truck, only way to stop it is to get the speed. Below 15mph. I would NOT. Want to experience that in my RV!

lance18c · 04-27-2015, 02:35 PM

I have a Challenger 37KT and I was wanting to help w/ push from rigs passing me and also cross wind. I researched and decided on installing the Safe T Plus steering stabilizer. Since having the largest model they offer installed, I have driven on several trips and I'm not noticing a difference in the issues I was trying to help. I Understand we are driving a "house on wheels" and not sure w a "gasser" there is really a lot that can be done. Knowing what I know today I wouldn't have spent the $ 800 for this. I am now looking into air suspension kits. Has anyone had good results with any particular model?
Thanks,
Sam and Dori

thor293 · 04-27-2015, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lance18c

I have a Challenger 37KT and I was wanting to help w/ push from rigs passing me and also cross wind. I researched and decided on installing the Safe T Plus steering stabilizer. Since having the largest model they offer installed, I have driven on several trips and I'm not noticing a difference in the issues I was trying to help. I Understand we are driving a "house on wheels" and not sure w a "gasser" there is really a lot that can be done. Knowing what I know today I wouldn't have spent the $ 800 for this. I am now looking into air suspension kits. Has anyone had good results with any particular model?
Thanks,
Sam and Dori

Before you spend on air suspension do you have a rear track bar on the motorhome? That is a pretty significant item for push from the rear and cross winds. You should at a minimum investigate it before dropping more cash. I don't see air suspension helping much in a push situation. Usually that is caused by the body shifting on the chassis and air suspension is more designed to support weight from a vertical force not horizonal.

The steering stabilizer helps mainly to prevent seesawing the wheel.

Phil Saran · 06-24-2015, 10:13 PM

I just picked up my Hurricane 34E from the Ford Truck dealer for a front end alignment, tire rotate and tighten the shock bolts. World of difference in how
it handles.

Talked with the parts manager at the dealer and he owns a older 34 Class A
and he said the first thing to upgrade if you already have sway bars is to add
a track bar on the rear end.

He said he also upgraded the front sway bar and said he's came with air bags
front & rear.

He also recommended I contact www.brazelsrv.com in WA state for
sway bars, track bars, etc. Maybe worth checking out.

blw2 · 06-25-2015, 12:39 AM

i have been researching this lately, not because my problem is bad.... i think of it as an issue.... but because I hope to make it more likely that DW will want to drive, while increasing safety and my comfort too.

I found a lot of discussion about insufficient caster angle being
Recently took my e450 for alignment, and they were unable to get the caster up to the +5 degrees that my research suggested, without taking my camber too far out.

And I found another reference here
MH handling
This write up really outlines the various solutions well, and what they are best at doing....

The folks at Josam who did my alignment confirmed my thinking that sway bars are not what I need. I don't sense that I have any significant pitching and rolling issues.... maybe I do, but I can't sense it form the driver's seat.

From what I can tell, the panhard rod on the rear axle to stabilize the leaf springs is what would likely "fix" any issue of instability

While the stabilizers such as safe t plus or steer safe would help with a lack of centering that I have in the steering (presumably from the lack of + caster)

BUT before I do any of this, my plan is to use the information from my most recent weighing, and adjust my steer tire pressure down based on the Michelin load/pressure chart and see how that goes.

old_Chief52 · 06-26-2015, 07:38 PM

We just bought a Windsport 32N in April. In the four trips of 70 miles from home to Baton Rouge, I would get pushed to the shoulder on I-12 at least a couple of times. The RV would also sway when going over rough roads and trying to pull back in my lane. My dealer recommended sway bars, rear stabilizer and steering stabilizer. I found that the F53 chassis already had sway bars. I called Thor Customer Service about the chassis but they didn't know or didn't want the liability. I was told to call Ford. Ford Customer Service was great, got right back to me. Rep stated that most RVers have success with adding rear stabilizer track bar and steering stabilizer. After much research I decided on the following. I bought off Amazon and saved $225 just on the rear stabilizer bar.
Blue Ox TT2401 TigerTrak F53 20K and 22K GVW MHC Axle Rear Bar - Ford
Roadmaster RSSA Reflex Stabilizer Unit
I had Able Spring and Alignment in Baton Rouge do an alignment and install the rear stabilizer bar/ TigerTrak. They only charged me one shop hour of $85 to install it. I could tell a difference as soon as I left Able Spring.
We just completed our first trip. 3,500 miles via Arkansas hills and curves, KS, NE and SD winds of 10-15. Coming home via Texas, we fought Tropical Storm Bill for 2 days. We had cross winds out of the north and south of 20-30+ miles for 2 days. I was able to control the RV pretty well. In 3,500 miles, I only had one semi push me out of my lane.
I am very satisfied with our mods, but not sure if it would work for everyone's situation. Curious if it is worth the $$$ to change out factory sway bars? Could anyone really tell the difference if you had it done? I'm very happy with our RV now and ready for some more trips.

blw2 · 06-26-2015, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old_Chief52

We just bought a Windsport 32N in April. In the four trips of 70 miles from home to Baton Rouge, I would get pushed to the shoulder on I-12 at least a couple of times. The RV would also sway when going over rough roads and trying to pull back in my lane. My dealer recommended sway bars, rear stabilizer and steering stabilizer. I found that the F53 chassis already had sway bars. I called Thor Customer Service about the chassis but they didn't know or didn't want the liability. I was told to call Ford. Ford Customer Service was great, got right back to me. Rep stated that most RVers have success with adding rear stabilizer track bar and steering stabilizer. After much research I decided on the following. I bought off Amazon and saved $225 just on the rear stabilizer bar.
Blue Ox TT2401 TigerTrak F53 20K and 22K GVW MHC Axle Rear Bar - Ford
Roadmaster RSSA Reflex Stabilizer Unit
I had Able Spring and Alignment in Baton Rouge do an alignment and install the rear stabilizer bar/ TigerTrak. They only charged me one shop hour of $85 to install it. I could tell a difference as soon as I left Able Spring.
We just completed our first trip. 3,500 miles via Arkansas hills and curves, KS, NE and SD winds of 10-15. Coming home via Texas, we fought Tropical Storm Bill for 2 days. We had cross winds out of the north and south of 20-30+ miles for 2 days. I was able to control the RV pretty well. In 3,500 miles, I only had one semi push me out of my lane.
I am very satisfied with our mods, but not sure if it would work for everyone's situation. Curious if it is worth the $$$ to change out factory sway bars? Could anyone really tell the difference if you had it done? I'm very happy with our RV now and ready for some more trips.

So you did the rear stabilizer (panhard rod) only, and not the steering dampener/stabilizer thing?

I have been advised that the route you have gone is likely the one most addressing the issue with the coaches (with a possible exception of increasing + caster angle and addressing tire pressures)..... but i think yours is the first report I've seen of doing only that mod without the others....

I've read several folks report improvement after installing better after market sway bars.

My gut tells me that while these sway bars may not be the solution to the real problem, they likely make an overall contributing difference to the system..... just like almost any improvement does.

Do you happen to know where your caster angles landed after the alignment? It's a different chassis that mine, but I'm still wondering.....

Also another question.... how well does your steering recenter? I mean is there a dead or loose/sloppy spot in the middle when going straight, or when coming out of a turn does the steering return to center by itself?

FW28z · 06-26-2015, 09:03 PM

Not so much caster, but my ford dealer did notice that I seemed to have excessive camber on the front. This is a characteristic of the independent I beam front suspension design, exacerbated by too much weight in the rear making the rig "light" in the front.

He did suggest air bags - not for increasing the rear axle suspension stiffness, but to bring weight forward to the front axle, which should help the camber; and hopefully the steering response.

I am sure there is something to that as I remember when I was in the military, we had some vehicles that had a heavy communications package attached to the bed, and that made the steering pretty squirrely - and I immediately thought of that the first time I drove my motorhome - so I am pretty sure there is something like that going on.

I also notice that when I am towing my car, that at highway speeds, I can get some side to side movement in the rear (not really sway), which I think is from the toad "wagging the tail" of the motorhome. This seems to be a common thing when towing, and probably means a rear stabilizer bar (tiger trak, etc) is in my future.

The wife is wanting to buy a 5th wheel, but not after I have spent all the money on this rig trying to improve it.

I have not yet decided on air bags. If we keep it, perhaps next year.

I think each improvement is an incremental step in improving the overall handling.

Shame on the RV manufacturers for not doing these things before the rigs leave the factory. One day it will kill someone, then after all of the lawsuits, they will see the error in their ways.

old_Chief52 · 06-26-2015, 09:11 PM

BLW2 - I did the rear stabilizer bar first and felt it made the most difference. I did put on a steering stabilizer and I felt it helped with the steering. Especially rutted and crowned roads we have in LA. Probably any model might work - appears to be an overpriced shock to me.
As for the alignment, the shop reported the toe in was off a little bit, but not much. I've read some forum posts where they recommend a .5 degree additional caster, I believe. I didn't go that route. Max tire pressure is 110 PSI, but I ran mine at 100.

As for your steering question, not positive how to answer as I didn't look specifically look for these items. I drove in lots of curves in Ark, and Black Hills and know the steering was very responsive to me surprising so. I did not have any wobble or play in the steering wheel, felt great to me. I'll be in the RV next week and will try to let you know about centering after a turn.

old_Chief52 · 06-26-2015, 09:17 PM

I agree with FW28Z. Manufactures should put the mod on at the factories or have the vehicle manufacturer do it as part of their chassis. I recommended this to the Thor rep I spoke with today. If you think of the bad rap you read in the posts about handling issues, you'd think the manufacturers would respond. An RV is an expensive experience - why not make it a pleasant one from the start.

KNMIB · 06-26-2015, 09:51 PM

I had the Saf T Plus installed two months ago and I feel it has helped. The steering is tighter and I feel like I have more control. The first outing I didn't think it did much but this last one I really felt the difference in control. I cant imagine there is a break in period but it seemed like it or maybe I am psycho or because of the cost I am convincing myself it worked, like taking a placebo.

**EA37TS** · 06-26-2015, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old_Chief52

I agree with FW28Z. Manufactures should put the mod on at the factories or have the vehicle manufacturer do it as part of their chassis. I recommended this to the Thor rep I spoke with today. If you think of the bad rap you read in the posts about handling issues, you'd think the manufacturers would respond. An RV is an expensive experience - why not make it a pleasant one from the start.

On my prior Class C Forest River installed the Firestone Ride Rite system as standard equipment. The air springs were an asset in the ability to shift the weight from side to side and rear to front, especially when towing a vehicle.

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