Finally: A Why Not to Do the Cheap Handling Fix

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by abjbrtd

When we had our F53 I found a good explanation for 2 holes, always assembled in the softest position.

"Ford doesn't know what the buyer will build on the F53 chassis, school bus, box truck, etc.
They build them all the same way, this includes a front end alignment."

unsubscribing click

I don't think the issue or at least question as part of this thread is to say Ford should Mfg in any particular way. Rather the question is given how they are mfg'd, and given they have been sold to an RV Mfg; why the silence or secrecy?

For the record it is not to say or question that every RV Mfg should spend extra labor for the retrofit. I just find it quite amazing the industry has allowed this to persist without some white paper that lays out all of the best known information with some summary / recommendations. 446 pages of post is my Exhibit A of my point. After 22 years of two holes and 11 years of CHF option, you would think by now there would be some authoritative source of accurate information.

[halfprice]

I dont think Ford cares enough about it to address it

[ducksface]

I'll simplify the 400 pages.

School busses and custom farm equipment need the second set of holes to be roadworthy. THOSE builders NEED the second set.
WE PREFER THE SECOND SET OF HOLES.

As for Ford not putting the adjustment in the owners manual:
They also don't tell you to use aftermarket oil or filters or to change the size of your tires or how do add a dvd to your dash display or install the obviously superior led headlight bulbs.
They do not tell you how to flash the ecm to match their police models nor do they suggest the silicone hoses used on police vehicles. They don't tell you how cutting a hole in a fender well lowers intake temps by 30°.
In the distant past they didn't tell you to turn the cover of your air cleaner housing over to get 1000% more air flow, yet some vehicles came without a closed aircleaner.

There isn't a single reason in the whole wide world to take on more liability than the least possible amount of liability.


IT. IS. A. HACK.
IT.IS.NOT.AN.OPTION.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by ducksface

I'll simplify the 400 pages.

School busses and custom farm equipment need the second set of holes to be roadworthy. THOSE builders NEED the second set.
WE PREFER THE SECOND SET OF HOLES.

As for Ford not putting the adjustment in the owners manual:
They also don't tell you to use aftermarket oil or filters or to change the size of your tires or how do add a dvd to your dash display or install the obviously superior led headlight bulbs.
They do not tell you how to flash the ecm to match their police models nor do they suggest the silicone hoses used on police vehicles. They don't tell you how cutting a hole in a fender well lowers intake temps by 30°.
In the distant past they didn't tell you to turn the cover of your air cleaner housing over to get 1000% more air flow, yet some vehicles came without a closed aircleaner.

There isn't a single reason in the whole wide world to take on more liability than the least possible amount of liability.


IT. IS. A. HACK.
IT.IS.NOT.AN.OPTION.

I wanted the truth and now it is flushed out

IT. IS. A. HACK.
IT.IS.NOT.AN.OPTION

and

isn't a single reason in the whole wide world to take on more liability

And I will just extrapolate to assume that the RV Mfgs are not going to touch it since Ford does not touch it as it relates to the Ford Chassis and not the RV they build on top of it.

I think in my case, when I get around to scheduling my RV for the Sumo Spring Install, I will see what the Authorized Installer says about whether they do the CHF? Unless he is just an eager proponent of CHF, and can do so with minimum costs, I will likely push anything like this out until Year 3; so I can pay for it using my extended warranty cost avoidance savings.

The Sumo Springs will be my 2nd step since adding Safe T Plus; so hopefully my ride improves; maybe it is improved enough where I may not need CHF?

Thanks for the Cliff notes on the 446 page thread on CHF

[DWB]

This is the first I’ve heard of the CHF (living under a rock I guess) so I crawled under to check it out. Evidently mine came with the sway bar mounted in the lower holes.

[Ifish]

I can understand all aftermarket product groups opposing the CHF, they can't benefit $$$ from it. I can understand the lawyered up companies (FMC, camper mfg's, etc.) totally avoiding any comment.

As for me, I will continue to enjoy the benefits of the CHF. If it causes me to more frequently inspect my sway bar ends, that might not be a bad thing. I could find other issues that require maintenance during the inspection.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by DWB

This is the first I’ve heard of the CHF (living under a rock I guess) so I crawled under to check it out. Evidently mine came with the sway bar mounted in the lower holes.

What coach, was it brand new from Mfg when you bought it? Maybe someone else had it done before you?

I have 2019 F-53 chassis

It does look very simple to do. I was looking at mine this morning. I found a Camping World that will do for 1 hour labor. With my member rate that will be about $140.

I have scheduled appointment to have Sumo Springs installed 2/19; so I will wait until the Sumo dealer finishes and drive it a while. If I think it is worthwhile; I may then schedule something with Camping World.

[woodbender]

Just a slightly sarcastic comment if I may.... Please note I'm just making a joke... ok??

If you get the blue sway bar, a close look at the video shows TWO holes.

So guess what??!! You can do the The NSCHF if you don't like the ride!
(Not So Cheap Handling Fix)

I'd love to ask the guys in the video.... " Why does your sway bar have two holes? Why are you using this hole and not THAT one? What'll happen if I use the other one?"

Just ask'n....

PS - credit to halfprice for pointing out the two holes in an earlier post.

PSS - Full Disclosure - I did the CHF the first week I had my new ACE (2019 F53 chassis). 10000 miles later I have no regrets, no broken parts and no inclination to go back to the mushy ride.

[MTHook]

We took the Thor factory tour in 2019 and I couldn't wait for them to ask for questions....I asked about the poor handling features of the F53 chassis and mentioned the CHF, steering stabilizers and rear trac bars as examples of relatively cheap fixes when done by the manufacturer. His answer was what I expected, Ford builds these chassis and they don't know what the end user would do with it. I would bet to get the sale Ford would put pink ribbons on the tail pipe to get the MH business.
To end the conversation he says, we build the coaches for a price point period! They spend as little on components as possible to reap the most return for themselves. It boils down to what's in it for me not you.
We sold our Windsport this year and now own a 2019 Tiffin 40IH a lot more money, but the construction is so much nicer, spray insulation on the caps for noise reduction, wires are zip tied in bundles attached to hard surfaces the list goes on.
Don't get me wrong we enjoyed the Whiny the engine noise drove us crazy, but once we were set up is was fun. We are going full time in the next couple months and wanted more room. Just my 2 cents, Grady

[knucklehead]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Out of all the mods I have read and researched before and after buying my RV, the famous "CHF" Cheap Handling Fix has always been the most perplexing to me. Not that I doubt it's simplicity to do, or the benefits that many have experienced, but I have always paused because after years and years of the CHF Mod; why haven't Ford made this standard for the F-53, or at the least; why haven't the RV Mfgs made this modifications when building the RVs?

It is kind of odd because you read all of the benefits, but no one really says why NOT to do the CHF; until I found this video

https://supersteerparts.com/why-you-...your-motorhome

I acknowledge that it is in part a marketing pitch to get customers to buy front stabilizers, but can anyone dispute the material facts of what they are saying? I think the company posting this video has solid reputation. I ran across due to recent purchase of Sumo Springs; but there may be something I am missing?

It's simple. Better suspension parts cost more and there's an entire industry banking on YOU making your ride better. They make money, Ford or Chevy saves money and you and I get to pay for a better ride!!! I installed sumo springs in the front of my 2018 Thor Windsport 29m, a Roadmaster anti sway bar in the rear and after three years put Bilstien shocks all around. Much better ride with no sway and much improved handling. Not put on a front steering stabilizer and probably won't----doesn't need it! Good Luck; Bob Trice

[Noodge]

A mechanic told us that Ford churns out the F53 chassis the same regardless of who's purchasing them e.g. for ambulances, RVs, trucks, etc...
Then it is up to the manufacturer (Thor in this case) who is installing what goes on the chassis, as to if they want/need to do a CHF to accommodate the load.
Of course the labor to do this drives up the manufacturing cost for Thor, thus they choose to let their units go out the door as is.
My thought though, is that as much bad publicity Thor has gotten over the years, they would consider doing it even if it means passing the cost on.
But then again,,,, this explanation is hearsay.

[MTHook]

The other rub for them they said was that Ford built the chassis if Thor changed anything it would need to reengineer the chassis.
I would bet some aftermarket builder would make the parts we need cheap enough that we could have better handle than stock without changing the engineering. I not an engineer and don't play one on TV.
I'm riding on Tiffin's Power Glide Chassis independent front suspension, smooth as silk, two finger driving, straight as an arrow. Loving it.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by DWB

This is the first I’ve heard of the CHF (living under a rock I guess) so I crawled under to check it out. Evidently mine came with the sway bar mounted in the lower holes.

[VetPartTimer]

So . . If you’ve done the CHF and had improvement, but are still looking for more improvement and want to add the Safe-T-Plus, do you keep the CHF and just add the Safe-T-Plus?

Or should you reverse the CHF back to stock position if installing the Safe-T-Plus?

[MJC62]

Originally Posted by VetPartTimer

So . . If you’ve done the CHF and had improvement, but are still looking for more improvement and want to add the Safe-T-Plus, do you keep the CHF and just add the Safe-T-Plus?

Or should you reverse the CHF back to stock position if installing the Safe-T-Plus?

The CHF is to stiffen up the suspension and reduce body roll.
The Safe T Plus is a steering stabilizer helps with returning the wheel to center, Helps eliminate the see sawing of the steering wheel while driving.
I have done CHF and Roadmaster steering stabilizer. Each has improved a different aspect of the MH handling characteristics.

[Bob Denman]

I agree: they address 2 different aspects of the handling traits.

[Lt Keefer]

Originally Posted by MJC62

The CHF is to stiffen up the suspension and reduce body roll.
The Safe T Plus is a steering stabilizer helps with returning the wheel to center, Helps eliminate the see sawing of the steering wheel while driving.
I have done CHF and Roadmaster steering stabilizer. Each has improved a different aspect of the MH handling characteristics.

Exactly. I did the CHF for sway, the saf t plus for steering, the sumo springs for ride comfort. All three had the desired effects. As to why Thor doesn't do the CHF while in assembly is the same reason they don't do a front end alignment after assembly. They don't care enough about customer satisfaction as they do for the couple of bucks of lost profits if they did the work.

[Bob Denman]

Production speed is of paramount importance...

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Lt Keefer

Exactly. I did the CHF for sway, the saf t plus for steering, the sumo springs for ride comfort. All three had the desired effects. As to why Thor doesn't do the CHF while in assembly is the same reason they don't do a front end alignment after assembly. They don't care enough about customer satisfaction as they do for the couple of bucks of lost profits if they did the work.

Curious to know in what order and if they were done at different times to evaluate the effects?

I did Safe T Plus a s soon as I got my new RV, now about 15 months later I am scheduled to have front & rear Sump Springs.

I think I should drive it a while to see if it is something that a CHF could actually improve for me? Don't sumo springs improve sway too?

Based on this thread CHF is not so far out for me as I once thought. It only costs $150 and I can have a legit service center do (Camping World) only for liability in the extremes circumstance I would need. It looks really simple to do.

[dkoldman]

I like Post #43 to explain why the CHF is not done by Ford or Mfg.

Trust the Duck....