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Old 10-17-2019, 11:12 PM   #1
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 29.2
State: North Carolina
Posts: 13
THOR #17062
Floor install and insulation upgrade

Hello all,
Replacing the carpet and adding insulation/sound dampener to front seating area in my ACE 29.2 (2013). My testing while driving indicates a c-weighted DB level of 85Db @ 57MPH and 66Db @ stop light. This past winter while on a travel assignment in 15 degree wheather the coldest part of the rig was the front area. Also I can feel the engine heat on my feet while I drive.

In my coach there is metal paneling under the carpet/pad not wood as I have seen in other RV's. The carpet pulls up relatively easy however the pad is a royal pain to get up. I used acetone and a scaper to clean most of it up. I still have a bit more prep work to complete on the inside of the coach before putting down deadener.

I am using a butlyl based deadener sold by partesexpress: Sonic Barrier UT-50. For anyone unfamiliar with vehicle resonance and noise control the purpose of deadener is to add mass to the panel and reduce vibrations thus reducing peaks in the panels response. See this thread for some testing performed on deadeners available:

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...d-testing.html

Also see this webpage for information on vehicle sound control strategy:

https://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com

Previously I have used mass loaded vinyl to much success covering the firewall, doors and floor. In this instance I chose to use closed cell foam as I wanted a thermal insulator not just a sound insulator. This is also why i chose to go with 100% coverage with my deadener. It also helps walmart hooked me up with $200 in egift cards for them messing up a refund; but thats a whole different story.

For the Insulation I got some of this:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/8-5mm-Car...Foam/164973154.
- 8.5mm and closed cell. It will be arriving tomorrow and its its crap ill send it back, however I liked the price and liked the adhesive backing. usually you free float CCF to decouple the MLV but I plan not to use MLV so the adhesive is welcomed.

For flooring I got a hell of a deal on some vinyl plank from LOWES:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/ProCore-16-...ing/1000389559

I originally planned to use some allure vinyl with the grip strip however, they had this procore stuff marked down and the manager hooked me up with a better deal yet. Needless to say I paid roughly a $1.05 a square foot. I wanted vinyl for thee thin profile in the slide area. Based on my testing with a piece of 10mm laminate I would go no more than 6-7mm thickness in the main area. Now this is a solid core vinyl and may not play well with my CCF so I may end up changing the flooring plan(carpet vs allure vs sheet vinyl) or changing my CCF approach(see below) and doing a layer of MLV.

THE PLAN: Add one layer of 80mil butyl deadener to entirety of floor followed by a layer of 8.5mm CCF then flooring. However if my floor doesnt like the give and take in the CCF I may put Mass loaded vinyl down and floor over that or change the floor in the drivers area. I will also be adding a layer of CCF to the wheel well area. Again if the flooring doesnt play well I may just double this layer up.

I will be adding photos this weekend as work progresses.
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Old 10-19-2019, 04:10 AM   #2
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: A.C.E. 29.2
State: Oklahoma
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THOR #2542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moorefamilyhill View Post
Hello all,

Replacing the carpet and adding insulation/sound dampener to front seating area in my ACE 29.2 (2013). My testing while driving indicates a c-weighted DB level of 85Db @ 57MPH and 66Db @ stop light. This past winter while on a travel assignment in 15 degree wheather the coldest part of the rig was the front area. Also I can feel the engine heat on my feet while I drive.



In my coach there is metal paneling under the carpet/pad not wood as I have seen in other RV's. The carpet pulls up relatively easy however the pad is a royal pain to get up. I used acetone and a scaper to clean most of it up. I still have a bit more prep work to complete on the inside of the coach before putting down deadener.



I am using a butlyl based deadener sold by partesexpress: Sonic Barrier UT-50. For anyone unfamiliar with vehicle resonance and noise control the purpose of deadener is to add mass to the panel and reduce vibrations thus reducing peaks in the panels response. See this thread for some testing performed on deadeners available:



https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...d-testing.html



Also see this webpage for information on vehicle sound control strategy:



https://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com



Previously I have used mass loaded vinyl to much success covering the firewall, doors and floor. In this instance I chose to use closed cell foam as I wanted a thermal insulator not just a sound insulator. This is also why i chose to go with 100% coverage with my deadener. It also helps walmart hooked me up with $200 in egift cards for them messing up a refund; but thats a whole different story.



For the Insulation I got some of this:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/8-5mm-Car...Foam/164973154.

- 8.5mm and closed cell. It will be arriving tomorrow and its its crap ill send it back, however I liked the price and liked the adhesive backing. usually you free float CCF to decouple the MLV but I plan not to use MLV so the adhesive is welcomed.



For flooring I got a hell of a deal on some vinyl plank from LOWES:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/ProCore-16-...ing/1000389559



I originally planned to use some allure vinyl with the grip strip however, they had this procore stuff marked down and the manager hooked me up with a better deal yet. Needless to say I paid roughly a $1.05 a square foot. I wanted vinyl for thee thin profile in the slide area. Based on my testing with a piece of 10mm laminate I would go no more than 6-7mm thickness in the main area. Now this is a solid core vinyl and may not play well with my CCF so I may end up changing the flooring plan(carpet vs allure vs sheet vinyl) or changing my CCF approach(see below) and doing a layer of MLV.



THE PLAN: Add one layer of 80mil butyl deadener to entirety of floor followed by a layer of 8.5mm CCF then flooring. However if my floor doesnt like the give and take in the CCF I may put Mass loaded vinyl down and floor over that or change the floor in the drivers area. I will also be adding a layer of CCF to the wheel well area. Again if the flooring doesnt play well I may just double this layer up.



I will be adding photos this weekend as work progresses.


I own the identical coach, 2013 A.C.E. 29.2, and for several months have been planning a similar sound deadening project. I hope to follow your progress. In particular, I am interested in the type of adhesive to be used to lay the vinyl flooring over the sound deadening material. I will be using Dynamat of which I felt a single would be adequate but maybe not. Photos please as you proceed.
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Old 10-19-2019, 04:25 AM   #3
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https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JQV27FR...v_ov_lig_dp_it

I am sorely considering this for my cab area to go over standard noise insulation. I've used it in a shed floor and the seams hide themselves well. Double sided carpet tape insures a firm flat hold.

I'm also considering(not too seriously but I'm checking on it) a heated floor due to the under $200 cost.
https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Radi...1456534&sr=8-5
The floor is miserably low wattage.

Both ideas are falling into the 'I doubt it' category, but I thought you might also want the chance to dismiss them.
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Old 10-19-2019, 04:52 PM   #4
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THOR #17062
Norrirn: I am going with a floating vinyl plank type floor. Its a click/lock style and very thin. I got a great deal on it and will be monitoring the installation in the front area for some time before adding to the other areas.

Ducksface: if you insulate under the a replacement flooring the thickness of the insulation will be the limiting factor due to slide to floor clearance in the main space. as well as doghouse height clearance with the dash. Personally heated flooring may be a luxury but with most residential flooring not being warrantied nor designed for use in an rv I would keep it as simple and least costly.

For some photos and an update: I cleaned the undercarriage area wiht solvent and sprayed rust converter primer over the surfaces.





Then started application of the foam insulate material. The foam itself was of good quality and the sticky side was obscenely sticky (a good thing for my application)







I am attempting to put two layers on so roughly 2/3" thick and may go thicker if it holds well over time. Again this is because I cannot put a layer under my flooring in the cab area.

In the cab:

carpet removed:




cleaned up:
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Old 10-22-2019, 04:19 PM   #5
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THOR #17062
doghouse stock:



-Removed the stock stuff, added a complete deadener layer, than CCF, then reattached stock stuff






Applied layer of deadener to entirety of floor





There are some bolts on the drivers side floor that are about 1/2 inch tall that would impede installation of the flooring so I broke down and bought some floor pad that would work with my LVP flooring.






Flooring:





Ive got a few more panels to cut and to get it done. Of note, the drivers side transition from floor to doghouse did not have enough carpet on the doghouse to completely cover it. Its also not flat so the floor cant sit as close to the doghouse transition as on the passenger side. So I will be wither re-carpeting the top of the doghouse with some of the carpet from the rear of the coach or doing quarter round on the doghouse. I was thinking eggshell black quarter round to match the window frames however my wife wants white trim..FYI I am not a fan of matching quarter round as the vinyl printed covering rarely lasts in my experience. I may do a matching stairnose however black may be the choice there as well.
I do show about a 4DB decrease at idle with no chairs in the cab. This should improve with the captains chairs installed and part of me wishses I had spent some funds on MLV. I may still do a MLV layer across the main walking area as the wood flooring doesnt have the hollow sound that the front had. . When I do the rear carpeted floor I will take some of that carpet and recover the small area on the passenger side kickboard.
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Old 10-24-2019, 01:06 PM   #6
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THOR #17062
More photos. We have the seating area completed/ now into the main area.



- due to the design of the floor and doghouse. I uses garage weather stripping screwed to the metal to cover the gap around doghouse, seal it well and still let my floor float/expand/contract. The doghouse is a tight fit but it came out well.





And completed. I simply used the stair nose piece pro-core matches to the floor for the step up lip. I installed it with glue per the instructions and some brad nails to secure while drying. i put the short side up(backwards from normal) as it cleared my seat brackets.



per my iphone I decreased the noise by about 3db. the weather has been not the 30's at night here and I have noticed the coach is definitely more "air tight" i the front area and seems to retain heat better (ive had heater set at 55 to ensure flooring stays in good temp range.)

now onto the main area!
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Old 10-24-2019, 01:10 PM   #7
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FYI I also took some time to place some foam between squeking panels and add some retaining screws to certain plastic parts. Specifically my "armrest" that houses the leveler controls.. There were no scrws holding this thing n the wall nor to the metal bracket inside of the plastic housing. Seems like thor just banged the stuff together and moved on.
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Old 10-26-2019, 01:47 PM   #8
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THOR #17062
Onto the main are floor. I found a previous floor repair and did not like how far back they had cut. I cannot find a source of any leak and based on the size of the spot and smell it may have been animal related. Anyways; word to the wise dont forget to silicone the floor joists before screwing the wood in and if your gonna do a small repair like I did use birch or another hardwood. The CDX is 1/2 nominal and flexes more than I like. specs are:

floor wood: 15/32 CDX
Insulation thickness: 1.5"





I didnt take pictures of the wood cover. Pad laying down:



flooring:






- dont mind the helper



And I ran out of pad. So more to come if anyone is following. Very happy with the noise reduction from a jump test; less echo from the thud. Also very happy with slideout clearance vertically.
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Old 10-26-2019, 02:14 PM   #9
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THOR #2542
I am just more than impressed with your project! The end results will certainly be worth all your efforts.
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Old 10-26-2019, 05:46 PM   #10
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thanks Norrin. I noticed in your post that you where going to use dynamat for deadener..... Why the name brand? best performing sound deadener I have seen thats still available would be Kno Knoise - Kolossus Edition by Knukonceptz. Way outperforms dynamat and should still be cheaper. Also in hindsight I would have added MLV to the front vs 100 percent coverage with deadener. I feel the deadedner dint reduce as much engine noise as I wanted; road test still pending of course.
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Old 10-26-2019, 05:58 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moorefamilyhill View Post
thanks Norrin. I noticed in your post that you where going to use dynamat for deadener..... Why the name brand? best performing sound deadener I have seen thats still available would be Kno Knoise - Kolossus Edition by Knukonceptz. Way outperforms dynamat and should still be cheaper. Also in hindsight I would have added MLV to the front vs 100 percent coverage with deadener. I feel the deadedner dint reduce as much engine noise as I wanted; road test still pending of course.


Sorry! I used Dynamat under the doghouse. I bought Noico material to use for the cab area but havenít started the project yet. I have to admit not having done a lot of research before making the purchases. Your photos and commentary have resolved a lot of my uncertainties about what to expect once the carpet and padding are pulled up.
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Old 10-26-2019, 06:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norrirn View Post
Sorry! I used Dynamat under the doghouse. I bought Noico material to use for the cab area but havenít started the project yet. I have to admit not having done a lot of research before making the purchases. Your photos and commentary have resolved a lot of my uncertainties about what to expect once the carpet and padding are pulled up.

- Glad the photos help. FYI i added foam and deadener in and around the dash; I can try to get some photos of those areas as well if you would like.
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Old 10-26-2019, 08:20 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moorefamilyhill View Post
- Glad the photos help. FYI i added foam and deadener in and around the dash; I can try to get some photos of those areas as well if you would like.


If you could do that I would really appreciate it.
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Old 10-27-2019, 11:47 AM   #14
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Wow... great detail and pics... This project is on DWís list for our rig... so Iíll be watching... Thanks!!
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Old 10-31-2019, 02:35 PM   #15
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Undercoating

Has anyone used a spray undercoating to reduce sound levels from tire/road noise? If so what did you use & results.


I used Noico under the doghouse with great results, but doubt it would stay stuck under the coach.
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Old 10-31-2019, 10:56 PM   #16
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thers a thread on here recently where a guy used dynamat underneath on the "floor pans"; same place I used the foam. I also think Solid foam board could be cut and screwed into place in that area to provide thermal and noise insulation. Foam would probably work great as well but spraying it cleanly would be a royal pain in the arse.
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Old 10-31-2019, 11:48 PM   #17
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Small update. Floor is in and trimmed in main living area. FYSA I went under the slide until I passed the rubber weather strip when pushing it back with my hand. This way the weather stripping wont catch the floor.







FYI my couch is a thomas payne trifold deal. so its longer than the stock one and I moved it all the way right to the door

into the bedroom. Carpet is only stapled here with a chincy pad underneath. overall every surface back here sounds more hollow and feel less sturday than in middle of coach.. Thus I am adding a layer of deadener to it all.

all torn out:


one layer of deadener and foam on the veritical pillars:



and now I am awaiting more deadener. Ill prolyl post some more updates on sunday. thanks.
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Old 11-04-2019, 02:44 PM   #18
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Updates:

Headboard is simply a piece of wood veneer brad nailed to the wall. Came off easy:





installed deadener @ 100% coverage in bedroom. Floor seemed less robust overall back there with more hollow/booming sound when jumped on. Aslo generator is right there so noise control is welcomed.







Floor went in easy with simple cuts overall:







*sry if some photos are dark, lighting in the rv at night is not the greatest. I have been looking into bulbs for the overhead lights that are brighter (increased lumens)

Of note, I covered the vertical walls with matching floor, not sure if I like it. Time will tell with that. But the are much quieter when my toddler crawls/climbes them now.:






Onto the trim work: back here I went with white trim per the wifes request; it came out good thus far. I am really leaning on adding some bead board as a sort of waynes coating to the wall and this trim allows a future addition.



I still have more trim to lay and will get completed pics when its all done. I had to install a small spacer on the barn style door to clear my trim:

spacer stock, of note this was loose upon inspection.


small wood spacer:




Also I bought noico 80 mil from amazon due to the 2 day shipping however the foil is much thinner and product had a small asphalt smell on install. Butyl layer seems thinner than the sonic barrier stuff from PE. I would recommend the sonic barrier as it is cheaper and IMO better.
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Old 11-04-2019, 02:58 PM   #19
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Okay! It's official! You win the A.C.E. Hero Award! This is truly the very best project I've seen on this forum! You've answered so many of the questions Thanks for posting all of the photos and commentary! Oh, your wife is right; the white trim looks really nice!
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Old 11-08-2019, 03:19 PM   #20
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THOR #17062
for some more updates:

Bedroom is finished. bottom to top. one layer of deadener (even on the bed area), floor pad (including on bed base to prevent mold), 8mm foam on basement walls, new flooring, new memory foam 8" matress, White foam brick headborad accent wall, white trim to match, triple weave blackout curtains with wrap around rods.





notched the bed area to clear basement wall floor+pad

















Also did the bathroom floor with some small white trim to match. FYI I undercut the wood door casing (mine had damage from my dog) and its cheap pressed wood. I also raised the doors on the vanity a 1/4" to claer the trim and floor.


- for visualization of the lift. The are equal now ..







few more tiny touches like the bathroom door transition and some misc trim issues. The bathroom door was making contact with the trim I placed on the pantry wall. And , due to its cheap pressed board construction with vinyl covering is started cracking. I plan to replace that trim with PVC just like in the bedroom. the PVC is harder than the door so I will angle the piece to act as a impromtu door stop as well. Pics will follow.
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