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Old 07-12-2016, 05:20 PM   #1
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Greatly improving Vegas/Axis noise- the next step

No, not earmuffs....

I did all the usual sealing, adding insulation to the doghouse, etc. - but was still unhappy with the noise level- both engine and road - of my 2015 Vegas. So it was time for more radical warfare.....

From my earlier GM new vehicle development experience, I knew that " constrained layer damping" material, like Dynamat, boom mat, etc. was very effective at damping vibrating panels, but not as effective for airborne noise. Since most of our dash is plywood- which does not vibrate , I figured the next step was an airborne noise treatment, and chose a " mass loaded vinyl" as used in soundproofed recording studios and high end car stereo systems. The most common is about 1/8 inch thick, and is available numerous places on-line. Beware of shipping- at 1 lb per square foot, get a place with free shipping.....

Since this would go between the plywood dash structure and the dash covers- it required taking apart the whole dash- not an easy task. The MLV will then go between the structure and cover. As I pulled apart the dash, I discovered a nasty surprise: where the front dash attached to the body, the two screws holding the dash in place had pulled out, or never been fully tightened- leaving a 1" gap along the front. Explains a LOT of my noise issue. No way of knowing how common this is - and I know one other vehicle I saw taken apart had about 8 screws across the front . Later factory fix? Who knows.... In my sealing program I had sealed as well as I could across the front, but sure there were open areas.
Here is a before picture:
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Old 07-12-2016, 05:31 PM   #2
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THOR #1812
Continuing, since I am not smart enough to post another photo....

Here is a picture of the front secured with more screws, sealed, I also added an L bracket on each side to further secure the dash. I fabricated two aluminum plates in the front corners under the pillars - which are open to the world - and filled the bottom of the pillar with foam
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Old 07-12-2016, 05:41 PM   #3
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Noise reduction and drivability

The best thing we did in noise reduction was 5 Star Tuning. I could not believe the difference on our recent trip to Oregon/Montana/Colorado and back.
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Old 07-12-2016, 05:45 PM   #4
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The MLV was then added along the top and rear of the dash. It is important that all of the area is covered - noise will get thru the gaps. Decrease in noise was AMAZING ! Engine sounds like it was moved away from you, and now sounds much smoother. Wide-ope-throttle down entrance ramps is now FUN rather than ear-splitting. It was a lot of work, but well worth it to me. But, again, I'm sure a lot of the improvement was the gap around the front of the dash in my coach,which may not be a common issue.

I bought enough MLV to also add under the cab carpet - when I get some more spare time. But, not feeling an urgency to do this, as I'm pretty happy where the coach is now.

Between these noise fixes, the handling work in another post , 2016 type shower curtain, and higher bathroom faucet, I am really getting to like this Vegas !
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Old 07-12-2016, 05:48 PM   #5
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Another picture.... Sorry about the multiple posts ... I WILL learn how to work this forum....
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Old 07-12-2016, 05:58 PM   #6
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A couple of questions:
  • How is the fabric of the dash held on? Staples?
  • How much additional weight do you think you added with the MLV?
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Old 07-12-2016, 06:08 PM   #7
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Hi, Jamie - top piece just lays there, I'm using staples into the plywood on the verticle pieces. I'm using Dynamat sealing tape between the pieces - staples go thru the tape first, as they will pull thru the MLV .

Weight is 1lb per square foot - suspect I used about 50 sqft. That is why luxury cars weigh so much.....if you look at a good OEM dash mat there is a lot of mass there!
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Old 07-12-2016, 06:21 PM   #8
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Wow! That's a project! I'm my 2014 Vegas, the "ceiling" above the engine, under the dash was not sealed well at all and I spent a lot of time and effort sealing it from the bottom. In my 2016 Axis, the "ceiling" is all one piece and when I put insulation on from the bottom, I did not find any gaps like I had in the 2014. Even without the gaps, the noise reduction was significant. I can imagine your solution of taking off the dash and applying it from the top would be much better. I can see my wife's face if she found me with the dash all apart! As far as five start tuning, I can say that the difference in noise level between my old 5 Spd and the new 6 Spd transmission, both without five star tuning, is considerable. I love the new 6 Spd. This is the third V-10 I've owned.
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Old 07-12-2016, 06:41 PM   #9
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I agree with the 6 speed comment - I drove one, and it is much better at keeping engine RPMs down. 5 Star probably much the same. Production tuning lets the engine spend a lot of time stuck at high RPM.

Difference here is: now the engine at WOT sounds GREAT - don't mind high RPMS -anymore..:flowers

Seriously, still waiting for the new V8 promised in the 2017 ( said to be a lot better for noise ) with the 6 speed .... Maybe by then I will have enough miles on mine to warrant trade. But I think I would still do the above - really good !
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Old 07-12-2016, 06:45 PM   #10
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Stan,

Two questions:
How does one go about disassembling the dash, which part first?
How long doe it take to disassemble, fabricate and reassemble (estimated hrs)?

Looks like great access to the backside of the radio too.

Doc
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Old 07-12-2016, 06:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan fowler View Post
....cut....

Seriously, still waiting for the new V8 promised in the 2017 ( said to be a lot better for noise ) with the 6 speed .... Maybe by then I will have enough miles on mine to warrant trade. But I think I would still do the above - really good !
Just saw preliminary GCWR data for E-Series with new 6.2L V8. Since there is some interest in the V8 option, I'll post it in that thread -- seems promising compared to old 5.4L V8.
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:04 PM   #12
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Doc- a simple answer is : search out all the fasteners and remove ! Front most piece is held by the vent covers, remove dash computer shelf asm, which holds down the next piece , as well as some hidden fasteners under the instrument cluster, rearmost pieces are held by fasteners along the sides. You do not have to totally remove and disconnect the instruments and center stack - just get loose and move aside. There is one attachment I had to pull out of the wood - looked like it was screwed in before the cover was attached -techs I saw doing the same job did it the same way.

This is not an easy job and not for the faint of heart, but nothing really complicated for someone experienced in working on cars. ( much easier way to get at back of radio is through removable access panel right above radio ...&#128516

All told it was probably a three day job - but I don't work very fast anymore ( lot of breaks...). But I would do it again- on my V8/6speed Vegas....😆
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Old 07-12-2016, 11:39 PM   #13
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Stan,

Thanks.

Start logging some standard trips, milage, gas consumption for compairson with the new V8/6speed Vegas. You have my attention!

Doc
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Old 07-13-2016, 12:10 AM   #14
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Doc- you realize my V8/6speed Vegas is a dream, not reality, right ? 😩 Will probably be a year or two.....
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Old 07-13-2016, 12:52 AM   #15
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Stan,

It's a dream now, but it is a shared dream.

So was the Star Trek Communicator, now they exist.
http://www.thorforums.com/forums/att...1&d=1468371048

Check out the link below.

This Bluetooth Star Trek Communicator would impress Spock - CNET

Doc
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Old 07-13-2016, 02:34 AM   #16
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Cool !

If you do decide to install the MLV , give me a shout and I'll give you any further help I can.
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Old 07-13-2016, 03:50 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Ace View Post
The best thing we did in noise reduction was 5 Star Tuning. I could not believe the difference on our recent trip to Oregon/Montana/Colorado and back.
Forgive my ignorance but I am new to the RV industry. What is the 5 star tuning.

Thanks
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Old 07-13-2016, 10:09 AM   #18
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Stan,

I plan to do it while the DW is away next month for a few days visiting her sister. I need to track down the MLV (name brand) and the amount needed.
Also while I have open access to things in the dash:
- two additional speakers to install in the floor under the driver and passanger seats (I'm thinking behind the mounting chair pedestal, flush with the floor).
- two sets of RCA cables from the radio's DVD player back into the kitchen area for the two TV's...just because they are available.
- re-route my HUD OBD cable to the windshield.

KEV: 5 Star Tune-up is to help reset shift points and help with gas mileage. Just go on line and type in 5 Star Tune...it is on my to do list for later this year.

Doc
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Old 07-13-2016, 11:47 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev
Forgive my ignorance but I am new to the RV industry. What is the 5 star tuning.
Kev, go here 5-Star Tuning

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocMike
two additional speakers to install in the floor under the driver and passanger seats (I'm thinking behind the mounting chair pedestal, flush with the floor).
I'm not sure I'd put speakers there firing up. I'd be worried about them picking up a lot of dirt.
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Old 07-13-2016, 02:24 PM   #20
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I have not got to the dash yet as I was not sure how to dissemble and reassemble wiyh out causing damage.

I had leaks around the passenger window and I discovered the seal was good but the screws that held the trim to the window were loose and some heads were broke off.I re-torqued/replaced (no more leaks) and I now I have to fix all the bubbles in the wall. Also the manufacture supplied seal does not seal correctly where the front fiberglass cap meets the box and I had to add an additional strip of weather stripping to have a proper seal

In addition when I did this I discovered there is no insulation at all above the overhead bed and front fiberglass cap. In the space between the fiberglass cap and the ceiling above the overhead bed it was so hot I could not touch the aluminum frame. I put R12 fiberglass up there and now the front cab is much cooler and quieter so next time they are working on any of your front side windows inquire about insulating the front cap.

Also the night shade is fastened to a piece of plywood (header covered in simulated leather). This header is only held in by three screws. It bounces around a lot (noise) . I created and installed a frame to the header and now the header is solid.

I am in my second year and I hope to have all the engineering deficiencies and poor workmanship cleaned up in the next year. Maybe I will look at the dash next.
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