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Old 07-17-2020, 09:29 PM   #1
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Heavier hitch

We have a thor chateau 23u. It has an 8000lb hitch. I read where that only gives 500lb tongue weight. I want to pull my boat and add a mount for my motorcycle. Those two items would give me 650lbs tongue weight. Im wondering if the motorhome can handle the weight if i put on a bigger hitch.
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Old 07-17-2020, 09:36 PM   #2
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Most likely the answer will be "No".

The reason is: most class Cs roll out of the factory close to or exceeding their rear axle weight ratings. So you can listen to a 100 (un)educated guesses or you can load that coach up for a trip, pile everybody in, and take a trip to your local CAT scale to get weights. See how far you are away from overloading that rear axle and cut it in half (due to the overhang) for a rough tongue weight on a proper hitch.

And FYI, most 8000 Lb hitches are rated at 800+ lbs tongue weight. Think there may be a reason your is derated to 500 lbs?
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Old 07-18-2020, 01:32 AM   #3
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Thank you. I read that on another forum about the tongue weight. So do you guys think the 8000lb hitch is rated for 800lb tongue weight?
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Old 07-18-2020, 01:51 AM   #4
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Does it matter if the coach can't carry it?
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Old 07-18-2020, 03:35 AM   #5
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Your hitch rating should be on a sticker on the hitch itself, listing both rating and allowed tongue weight. Some hitches do have less than the usual 10% tongue weight, probably because of frame limitations, hard to change.
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Old 07-18-2020, 03:42 AM   #6
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What would be the role of helper.springs in this?
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Old 07-18-2020, 04:26 AM   #7
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What would be the role of helper.springs in this?
Helper springs do not change the weight ratings.
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Old 07-18-2020, 04:39 AM   #8
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In other forums where this was discussed I think the general consensus was the frame extensions were not strong enough to support 800 lbs tongue weight.

Your Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) is 12,500, also to tow 8,000 pounds your coach would have to weigh less than 10,000 pounds as the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR)is 18,500

Example:
Coach 10,000 lbs + Trailer tongue weight 500 lbs and trailer weight 8,000 lbs =18,500 lbs MAX

Slim margins, but Your coach is short and it might be possible to tow 8,000 lbs if you pack super light.
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Old 07-18-2020, 11:41 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Hooligan2 View Post
Your hitch rating should be on a sticker on the hitch itself, listing both rating and allowed tongue weight. Some hitches do have less than the usual 10% tongue weight, probably because of frame limitations, hard to change.
Thank you for the information. We found that on the hitch. It does say 500lb tongue weight.
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Old 07-18-2020, 11:50 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
What would be the role of helper.springs in this?
They might keep things from squishing down on top of the grossly overloaded axles...
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Old 07-19-2020, 10:11 PM   #11
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My Thor vegas 24.1 sayss 8000 lbs tow (horizontal force), 500 lbs tongue (vertical force). You can see how much of a cantilever arm that the hitch has over the rear axle. I am hoping/guessing someone at Thor did a calculation to figure out the 500 lb tongue weight rating. There are some devices out there to help you figure out your tongue rating like this below:

https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hit...UaAidzEALw_wcB
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Old 07-25-2020, 08:52 PM   #12
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Thank you. I read that on another forum about the tongue weight. So do you guys think the 8000lb hitch is rated for 800lb tongue weight?
No, it's about overhang from rear axle. A bigger hitch wont matter. Remember it is a manufacture limit due to liabilities. It can carry more.
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Old 07-25-2020, 09:53 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Susan2010 View Post
Thank you for the information. We found that on the hitch. It does say 500lb tongue weight.
Most of these Motorhomes are equipped with a rated 8,000 pound Hitch towing receiver with a 500 pound tongue weight limit.

An interesting Note: to see the Ford original specs on your vehicle before the motorhome manufacturer added anything, sort of like a "Build sheet", Do a VIN lookup at:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/vindecoder.php


My Van before its conversion is rated to Tow 8,500 pounds, and 850# tongue weight.
The only Change that was made by Thor to affect the towing capacity is the Frame extension. Engine, Tranny, Drivetrain, Brakes, Steering components, suspension, etc is all Ford stock.
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Old 07-26-2020, 04:36 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Susan2010 View Post
We have a thor chateau 23u. It has an 8000lb hitch. I read where that only gives 500lb tongue weight. I want to pull my boat and add a mount for my motorcycle. Those two items would give me 650lbs tongue weight. Im wondering if the motorhome can handle the weight if i put on a bigger hitch.
I have a 2016 Thor Palazzo 36.2 It has a gross vehicle weight rating of 28,000 lbs. It has a gross Combined weight rating of 33,000 lbs. My hitch is rated at 10,000 lbs with a 1000lb tongue weight limit. Because of what I carry in the vehicle, I can tow a Toyota Prius on a dolly with about 400 lbs tongue weight. That is pretty much my limit. I can carry 2500 lbs of food water propane and possessions plus tongue weight that leaves me at 5000 lbs pull weight. That's how it works. I'm pretty sure your story is similar. The RV body will get you every time.
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Old 07-26-2020, 04:45 AM   #15
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Ace touched on it from the onset. Your rear tires are only rated for so much weight. Not sure of the good it would do to exceed the weight, get a blowout and shred a tire or more. Maybe you can unload the bike and go find some help? But then you have tire(s) to buy. It could be an expensive gamble.
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Old 07-26-2020, 05:12 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
They might keep things from squishing down on top of the grossly overloaded axles...
I'm not sure that would do much good unless it transfers weight to the front axles like torsion bars on a camper with a hitch and ball set up.

They may still have to worry about the extra rear end weight and tire capacity. Either way, the proposition will likely cost them money to abate possible significant trouble and that's still no guarantee of complete success. Sometimes you have to roll the dice.
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Old 07-26-2020, 05:15 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by 16Pal36.3 View Post
I have a 2016 Thor Palazzo 36.2 It has a gross vehicle weight rating of 28,000 lbs. It has a gross Combined weight rating of 33,000 lbs. My hitch is rated at 10,000 lbs with a 1000lb tongue weight limit. Because of what I carry in the vehicle, I can tow a Toyota Prius on a dolly with about 400 lbs tongue weight. That is pretty much my limit. I can carry 2500 lbs of food water propane and possessions plus tongue weight that leaves me at 5000 lbs pull weight. That's how it works. I'm pretty sure your story is similar. The RV body will get you every time.
That's all good and well but we're not talking about the same machine. A 23u and Palazzo is almost apples to oranges.
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Old 07-26-2020, 12:36 PM   #18
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I'm not sure that would do much good unless it transfers weight to the front axles like torsion bars on a camper with a hitch and ball setup. .
Purely "Tongue in cheek"...
Once you get to the limit of a component: you are also most likely starting to reach many other limits.
One change begets seventeen others!
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Old 07-26-2020, 05:53 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Susan2010 View Post
We have a thor chateau 23u. It has an 8000lb hitch. I read where that only gives 500lb tongue weight. I want to pull my boat and add a mount for my motorcycle. Those two items would give me 650lbs tongue weight. Im wondering if the motorhome can handle the weight if i put on a bigger hitch.

I would evaluate three very different paths (options) to see which makes most sense.

1) First, I’d weigh motorhome with and without boat trailer attached to get front and rear axle weights. You can then estimate a fairly accurate weight after motorcycle is added. I can estimate this for you if needed.

2) Second, I’d call a custom boat trailer manufacturer/builder and ask about cost to build a new trailer with integrated motorcycle carrier. While expensive, it “may” be cheaper than modifying the motorhome’s frame and extension even if it would work (and that’s not known).

3) Third, I’d check into front receiver hitch to see if you can get one with enough load capacity for the motorcycle. This option is used successfully some times and helps with weight distribution and handling. The negatives include that the motorcycle will get dirtier with bugs, etc., and restricts air flow into radiator a bit. Since your motorhome is at low end of size and weight, cooling shouldn’t be a major problem. If you do a Google search, you should find many pictures similar to the one below.


Anyway, with your estimated 650 pounds of tongue weight for the combined boat and motorcycle, it suggest to me that both are probably fairly small/light. If that’s indeed the case, there should be a way to solve the problem.
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Old 07-26-2020, 06:45 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Chance View Post
I would evaluate three very different paths (options) to see which makes most sense.

1) First, I’d weigh motorhome with and without boat trailer attached to get front and rear axle weights. You can then estimate a fairly accurate weight after motorcycle is added. I can estimate this for you if needed.

2) Second, I’d call a custom boat trailer manufacturer/builder and ask about cost to build a new trailer with integrated motorcycle carrier. While expensive, it “may” be cheaper than modifying the motorhome’s frame and extension even if it would work (and that’s not known).

3) Third, I’d check into front receiver hitch to see if you can get one with enough load capacity for the motorcycle. This option is used successfully some times and helps with weight distribution and handling. The negatives include that the motorcycle will get dirtier with bugs, etc., and restricts air flow into radiator a bit. Since your motorhome is at low end of size and weight, cooling shouldn’t be a major problem. If you do a Google search, you should find many pictures similar to the one below.


Anyway, with your estimated 650 pounds of tongue weight for the combined boat and motorcycle, it suggest to me that both are probably fairly small/light. If that’s indeed the case, there should be a way to solve the problem.
Weighing everything first is important.
The 23U is 1 foot longer than my Four winds 22E (No slides)
Fully loaded including driver and 1 passenger and all tanks gas, water, propane is 11000 pounds. The 23U shouldn't be too much heavier.
They also make a tow dolly with a motorcycle carrier on it.
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