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Old 01-15-2020, 07:55 PM   #1
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I want to move my outlets to the inverter

I boondock about half the time and I'm pretty tired of having a single (convenient) outlet available when on battery. I have tons of solar and no worries about accelerated battery drain. Besides my horrible whirlpool residential is the real hog anyway!

I'm educated enough to know that I can't go running my Vitamix or a hair dryer on my inverter.

Here's what I wanna do:
Take the main feed at the shore power breaker box for the "General Outlets" and reroute it down to the inverter where my TVs, Fridge and that one outlet are connected.

What's stopping me:
Well, I'm confused that there is a breaker for the TVs in the shore power panel and another run coming from the inverter. Is that what this B.I.R.D (transfer switch thing) is handling? So power never feeds back? I don't need two separate runs for the "General Outlets" too, do I?
I don't care that the inverter will always need to be on when I want power at the outlets. The Fridge is that way anyway..

I have a 2016 Outlaw 37RB. Anybody ever pull a shorepower feed and get it down and over there by the inverter in the basement? How'd you run it?

Oh!, last thing... I never plan to run anything more than a laptop and/or lamp on those outlets. So....maybe 2 or 3 amps.

Thanks all!
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:27 PM   #2
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a forum is not the place to learn to be an electrician. What you wan't to do can be done (depending on the size of your inverter, but not in this classroom.
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Old 01-15-2020, 11:03 PM   #3
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I sort of agree with Cavie
This is no place to take a chance on making a mistake.
For sure: it CAN be done, and I wish you the best of luck with this project!
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:04 AM   #4
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Nevermind... I got it.

Interesting response.
This forum has helped me:
- Diagnose and fix a short in the towing lights circuit.
- Determine a fault in the inverter (which I then replaced myself)
- Install my own solar of more than 1000W and upgrade the Ah capacity of my battery bank.
- Find the rogue inline fuse buried in the wall for the LED awning lights and replace it while also replacing the light strip from failed LEDs.
- Replace that useless kwikee motorized step on my own.

And I could go on..

I'll just pull the line and reroute it through its own dedicated breaker.

Thanks for the help
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Old 01-16-2020, 01:45 AM   #5
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I had the class Outlaw 29H and I did change the wiring on the Inverter so I could power any outlet in the coach (within reason).

I first replaced the stock 1000W Inverter with an 1800W TrueSine inverter. I have not looked at the schematics for your coach but I suspect it was wired similar to mine.

I had Xantrex Inverters and if you read their documentation you are supposed to put a sub-panel on the output side of the Inverter. Thor cuts costs and does not do it that way.

I ended up making my Inverter standalone (no AC input to use the Inverter's built-in transfer switch). I added a breaker to the WFCO Power Distribution Panel and ran the output of the Inverter to the new breaker.

The new breaker that controlled the output of the Inverter was always off until I wanted to use the Inverter. Then I would turn off every breaker in the WFCO Panel (including the master breaker and the Converter breaker). I would then turn on the breaker for the Inverter output so it would feed AC to the WFCO Panel and then I would turn on the breaker for the outlet / appliance that I wanted to use.

Then when I was done using the Inverter, I turned off the new breaker that controlled the output of the Inverter and then turned on all of the breakers in the WFCO panel.

If you can read your schematics and have some experience wiring AC circuits, it can be done.
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Old 01-16-2020, 02:00 AM   #6
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Your BIRD is in the 12 VDC distribution and charging system. It has nothing to do with the 120 VAC system or any type of "feedback" path.

Moving anything upstream of the breaker panel in your RV to do anything with an inverter is not the way to do it. A lot depends on what kind of inverter you want to use, how may AC circuits does it have and whether the inverter has an integrated transfer switch.
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Old 01-16-2020, 02:03 AM   #7
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the issue with simply 'moving' some breakers to the 'inverter', is that you also want these outlets to work when on Shore Power or the Generator, right?

if so, which most folks do, then it's not a simple 'move' because it would require a 'sub-panel' from your main panel, and a transfer switch if your inverter does not already include one.

if you don't care whether these outlets are powered while on Shore or Gen, since you have so much solar, and batteries can be charged while on these power sources, then just move the output wire of the breaker(s) that control the circuit/outlets you want the inverter to control TO the inverter's output.
Now, that's also not as 'simple' as it may sound, depending on your type of inverter and what wiring/connection types it uses. Some are hard-wire output only, some have a standard 'outlet' for the output, and some have both.


so, it's not necessarily an easy proposition, though it's doable, but you have to know what YOUR inverter is designed for, and how your WIRING is run within your RV's electrical design. It may be easier for some than for others.

Secondarily, you could also add a SECOND inverter simply to accomplish this. It might be easier than trying to use your factory installed one. There are many off-the-shelf 'power inverters' in the tire/battery section of the big box store, which can easily power all the things you wish - using extension cords, if needed.
There are actually many very large coaches that use TWO separate Inverters, for similar reasons.

also, thirdly, as many folks do, you can simply run extension cords from the 'convenience' outlet you already have access to. If it's a 15a or 20a circuit, you probably already have enough amperage for most everything you said you wanted to power by it, including the fridge.
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Old 01-16-2020, 11:15 AM   #8
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The way I wired my system was the way a licensed electrician wired up my 5500W generator when I built my garage a few years ago. You can consider an inverter to be analogous to an inverter... it is a device to provide auxiliary power when the primary AC is not available.

The electrician installed an outlet outside my garage so I could plug in my generator. He then added a breaker to my panel so the generator could back-feed the panel when the generator is running.

When I have a power outage the first think I do is throw the main breaker to prevent AC from back feeding to the power lines. I then turn off all breakers in the house that I don't want to power or can't power based on the size of my generator (like the Air Conditioner). I leave on the breaker to our well, furnace and refrigerator and some lights.

I start the generator, turn on the breaker in the panel connected to the generator outlet. I then have power where I need or want it.

The way I wired my Outlaw 29H was the exact same way. I followed the same process as I do at home and it worked great.
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Old 01-16-2020, 07:55 PM   #9
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Well, Now we're getting somewhere! :)

These are some wonderful ideas. As a matter of fact, I have a spare 3000W true sine wave Xantrex that I was holding off using until I also get 400Ah of LiFepo4 (BattleBorns or Renogys). At that point, I was going to switch out the whole system. ie: out with the Xantrex XM1800 and Trojan T-145s..
I was kinda waiting for the day that the T-145s start to fail.

BUT.....

Maybe I could *add* the 3000W Xantrex and Lithium Iron Phosphates as a separate source? Although I'm not sure why I would want to do that.. Sure seems like overkill to me

Yes, it looks like my ClassA Outlaw is setup exactly as you guys describe. No subpanel out of the inverter. Just a junction box all wirecapped inside.
The fridge power is even hardwired straight from the inverter to a dedicated outlet. No breaker. And I bought this 37RB NEW from Camping World in 2016.

So the main panel breaker marked "Refridge" was very confusing.
Upon further investigation, that main panel Refridge breaker does NOTHING. There are no wires to it. And then I realized why. The other Outlaw ClassA model has an "outdoor kitchen". Wanna bet that kitchen option includes a second fridge!?

So Now I feel better knowing that there is no weird stuff going on with duplicate circuits - like I thought to the fridge.

I think my plan should be to install a subpanel in the basement very close to the inverter. Split those wirecapped circuits (TVs, Fridge, Convenience outlet) into a set of breakers. Add an extra breaker for the "General Outlets". The inverter has it's own transfer switch, so they'll run when on shore power.

Right around the time I get that complete, the T-145s will start to fail and I'll be swapping everything out! LOL

Thanks for the excellent pointers and ideas!
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Old 01-16-2020, 08:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmichel View Post
These are some wonderful ideas. As a matter of fact, I have a spare 3000W true sine wave Xantrex that I was holding off using until I also get 400Ah of LiFepo4 (BattleBorns or Renogys). At that point, I was going to switch out the whole system. ie: out with the Xantrex XM1800 and Trojan T-145s..
I was kinda waiting for the day that the T-145s start to fail.

BUT.....

Maybe I could *add* the 3000W Xantrex and Lithium Iron Phosphates as a separate source? Although I'm not sure why I would want to do that.. Sure seems like overkill to me

Yes, it looks like my ClassA Outlaw is setup exactly as you guys describe. No subpanel out of the inverter. Just a junction box all wirecapped inside.
The fridge power is even hardwired straight from the inverter to a dedicated outlet. No breaker. And I bought this 37RB NEW from Camping World in 2016.

So the main panel breaker marked "Refridge" was very confusing.
Upon further investigation, that main panel Refridge breaker does NOTHING. There are no wires to it. And then I realized why. The other Outlaw ClassA model has an "outdoor kitchen". Wanna bet that kitchen option includes a second fridge!?

So Now I feel better knowing that there is no weird stuff going on with duplicate circuits - like I thought to the fridge.

I think my plan should be to install a subpanel in the basement very close to the inverter. Split those wirecapped circuits (TVs, Fridge, Convenience outlet) into a set of breakers. Add an extra breaker for the "General Outlets". The inverter has it's own transfer switch, so they'll run when on shore power.

Right around the time I get that complete, the T-145s will start to fail and I'll be swapping everything out! LOL

Thanks for the excellent pointers and ideas!

My Magnitude has the 2000W Xantrex and it is wired directly to the Refrigerator (inside and outside) and to a couple TV outlets as well. They did not use a subpanel with a breaker for the output of the Inverter as they really should have. I can turn the breaker off to the Inverter and that will kill the power to the Fridge and TV's if the Inverter is switched off.

At least on my Outlaw 29H, they wired the Inverter powered outlets to the optional Inverter's GFCI outlet circuit and that had it's own built-in circuit breaker. On the Magnitude they used no circuit protection on the output circuit.
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Old 01-16-2020, 09:19 PM   #11
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Old 01-18-2020, 08:16 PM   #12
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Done and Done!

I picked up a small load center box with two spaces and a couple of 15A breakers.
I took the output of the inverter and ran it straight to the load center. One breaker for the TVs & General outlets and the other for the fridge.
I hooked the fridge back up, but now through a breaker.
Then I ran some 14-2 wirecaped from where I pulled the run that used to go to the shorepower breaker. The other end connects to the "TVs and General Outlets" breaker in the new load center. I pulled the old 15A breaker in the shore power panel and put a blank back in..

The general outlets now work off of the inverter
I figured some 10-2 from the inverter to the new load center (about 3 ft) would be plenty for the two 15A breakers. Especially since the inverter has it's own breaker that would trip after 16A

Everything seems to work fine. I left the GFI Recepts on shore power. They are near the kitchen and the bathroom - where blenders and hair dryers might get plugged in.. That way, no one will come along and trip the inverter.

All sound okay?

Thanks for the help!
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Old 01-19-2020, 11:56 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmichel View Post
I picked up a small load center box with two spaces and a couple of 15A breakers.
I took the output of the inverter and ran it straight to the load center. One breaker for the TVs & General outlets and the other for the fridge.
I hooked the fridge back up, but now through a breaker.
Then I ran some 14-2 wirecaped from where I pulled the run that used to go to the shorepower breaker. The other end connects to the "TVs and General Outlets" breaker in the new load center. I pulled the old 15A breaker in the shore power panel and put a blank back in..

The general outlets now work off of the inverter
I figured some 10-2 from the inverter to the new load center (about 3 ft) would be plenty for the two 15A breakers. Especially since the inverter has it's own breaker that would trip after 16A

Everything seems to work fine. I left the GFI Recepts on shore power. They are near the kitchen and the bathroom - where blenders and hair dryers might get plugged in.. That way, no one will come along and trip the inverter.

All sound okay?

Thanks for the help!
I think that should work ok for you. The 10-2 is probably overkill. I think the max output of the stock 2000W inverter is 20A. I'm also going to guess that Thor ran 14-2 (or 12-2) for the input of the Inverter if that was on a 15A breaker.

You have a much better system now anyway with a breaker for your fridge and it is wired the way Xantrex recommends with a subpanel on the output.
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Old 01-19-2020, 12:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavie View Post
.......^^^^^
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Old 01-22-2020, 08:07 PM   #15
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Location of inverter outlets Thor Magnatude

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge View Post
I had the class Outlaw 29H and I did change the wiring on the Inverter so I could power any outlet in the coach (within reason).

I first replaced the stock 1000W Inverter with an 1800W TrueSine inverter. I have not looked at the schematics for your coach but I suspect it was wired similar to mine.

I had Xantrex Inverters and if you read their documentation you are supposed to put a sub-panel on the output side of the Inverter. Thor cuts costs and does not do it that way.

I ended up making my Inverter standalone (no AC input to use the Inverter's built-in transfer switch). I added a breaker to the WFCO Power Distribution Panel and ran the output of the Inverter to the new breaker.

The new breaker that controlled the output of the Inverter was always off until I wanted to use the Inverter. Then I would turn off every breaker in the WFCO Panel (including the master breaker and the Converter breaker). I would then turn on the breaker for the Inverter output so it would feed AC to the WFCO Panel and then I would turn on the breaker for the outlet / appliance that I wanted to use.

Then when I was done using the Inverter, I turned off the new breaker that controlled the output of the Inverter and then turned on all of the breakers in the WFCO panel.

If you can read your schematics and have some experience wiring AC circuits, it can be done.
We have the same coach as you, but 2019. Was under the impression a couple of outlets towards the front of the "living area" had outlets that were active when the inverter is on - we cannot locate any. Where are yours? Thank you!
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Old 01-22-2020, 08:44 PM   #16
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Interter Powered outlets

In my 2016, the outlet to the right of the passenger is powered by the inverter as well as all outlets that a TV is plugged into, plus the outlet in the loft - where an 'optional' tv could be connected. There's a secret outlet behind the fridge also.

Before the modification; the 2 outlets above the dinette, on both sides of the bed required shore power. Now they work off the inverter as well.

I purposely did NOT connect the GFI outlets (above the sink, at the entrance door panel, in the bathroom) to the inverter.

There are a couple outlets outside. I doubt they are powered on the inverter but I never checked and rarely (maybe never?) use them.

It's interesting that everything I fix on my Thor is easily fixed better than new - and I'm no craftsman!
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:03 PM   #17
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Try this thread.
Itís the Aims inverter install, the one with the auto transfer switch.
I think youíll find it a helpful read...

http://www.thorforums.com/forums/f27...dry-16594.html
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Old 01-22-2020, 11:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium View Post
We have the same coach as you, but 2019. Was under the impression a couple of outlets towards the front of the "living area" had outlets that were active when the inverter is on - we cannot locate any. Where are yours? Thank you!

With my 2018 Outlaw 29H, the Inverter only powered the TV outlets. It did not power the fridge. That was one of the reasons I changed things around and upgraded my Inverter. With the 1800W true sine wave Inverter let me run the the 5000 BTU air conditioner in the garage after I made the changes.
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Old 01-22-2020, 11:52 PM   #19
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My inverter runs everything.
I couldn't find a reason to not do it this way.
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Old 01-23-2020, 01:18 AM   #20
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E mail or call Renogy an tell them what you want to accomplish, you do not have to buy their system to get the information, my Axis only came with 2 group 24 12 volt batteries, I added 4 100 watt solar panels, replaced the group 24 batteries with 4 gel cell an a 2000 watt inverter, I hard wired the inverter so every outlet is covered by the inverter, my coach is a 30 amp service and the inverter is rated for 30 amp pass through, if you do not have a full understanding of how a 120 volt AC system works you should get some one who does, I talk to people all the time who just go out and start buying components and wonder why they have problems,
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