If you are on the fence about upgrading to Lithium!

[Bob Nodine]

We are in the middle of a 5 night camping trip at Cades Cove where there are no hook ups, over the air television, or any form of cell service.

This is the first time boondocking since upgrading to Lithium and installing the Gen 3 Starlink. I love the Lithium's not only for the State of Charge but absolutely love the fact that the lights no longer blink every time something turns on and off like the water pump. We can watch television and have cell phone service here and have no problem waiting until generator hours to charge the batteries back up. This is even with making two cups of coffee with the Keurig before daylight. I am writing this post via Starlink. So to me it is worth the upgrade to Lithium, even if you only install a single battery, to not have to suffer with the lights blinking all the time.

[16ACE27]

Since FLA have a much higher "CCA" capability than LiFePO4 batteries I suspect the blinking before was due to dirty/poor battery connections rather than the change in storage medium. Installing the new batteries fixed that as a side-effect.

But at least the issue is gone.

[Mark54]

Originally Posted by Bob Nodine

We are in the middle of a 5 night camping trip at Cades Cove where there are no hook ups, over the air television, or any form of cell service.

This is the first time boondocking since upgrading to Lithium and installing the Gen 3 Starlink. I love the Lithium's not only for the State of Charge but absolutely love the fact that the lights no longer blink every time something turns on and off like the water pump. We can watch television and have cell phone service here and have no problem waiting until generator hours to charge the batteries back up. This is even with making two cups of coffee with the Keurig before daylight. I am writing this post via Starlink. So to me it is worth the upgrade to Lithium, even if you only install a single battery, to not have to suffer with the lights blinking all the time.

5 nights! Excellent! How many amps do you have?
I upgraded from 200 to 600A (7200Wh) and can go as long as 5 days+, if I am frugal with power. I also added another 190W PV panel, so I have 380W solar, which allows me to keep at home indefinitely w/o shoreline power- just the 2A trickle charger for the chassis battery that I wired into the e-start system.
It is very liberating to be able to go somewhere and not worry about plugging in.

I had Lithoum before, but my Rialta did not, and I converted that as well, allowing us to go many more places w/o shoreline- we had 5000Wh in that RV, from 1200Wh with the original wet-cell arrangement.
Can make coffee, and run as many microwave sessions as needed for meals. Solar charges in between, even on cloudy days. Changed the AC to a 12V one to save 600W of power- uses 400W instead of 1100W of the Mach 1 unit, and is 20dB more quiet.

I also made sure I got an RV w/o generator- too noisy and stinky. I removed the one from the Rialta and put batteries on a sliding tray back there- not underneath like the Tellaro/Sequence had. I only had to change the charger and add a DCDC converter to the Rialta. Worked great.

My 20L had the lithium batteries already- so it was easy to upgrade, and also get off the bottom of the chassis!
Still thinking of getting Starlink....

[DavidEM]

I agree with Ted above. Lights blinking have nothing to do with the type of batteries. Very likely it was caused by a bad connection at the battery terminals of the old batteries and replacing the batteries solved it.

I am sticking with my AGMs. They give me at least three days of dry camping until they get down to 50% SOC which is all I ever need.

David

[The Gritz Carlton]

I always dreamed of purchasing Cades Cove, invite all my seriously prepared friends and then locking the gates. That place is my favorite spot in the world. As far as batteries...sounds like you've nailed what makes you sleep good. In reality, with the generator availability every day to charge batteries back up, it's really just a 24 hour boondock 5 days in a row...which most RV's with AGM or FLA batteries can survive through easily. The biggest factor for me, if I were to even consider lithium, would be the ability to run the A/C for more than a couple hours or so. Having a generator is the key. Even if you had to drive a bit down the road to run it and charge, it's a nice addition. In that 24 hour scenario, where would AGM's or FLA's with a suitable inverter fall short?

[Chateau_Nomad]

To me, lithium batteries are just one of many tools which makes off-grid camping possible.
300Ah lithium (more on the roadmap)
600 watts solar
4k gasoline generator
12 gallons propane

We did several 6 day long primitive camps with no hookups in the Rockies last year, mixed with a few electric only. Our most limiting factor is freshwater/wastewater. Cool weather (fewer showers) and pit toilets helps greatly... no A/C needed either.

But just like there's no one perfect tool for all situations, it's nice having the old school generator and propane when needed. On the off chance of 90° and pouring rain we can still use the generator and A/C. But we'd get the hell out of there next day!!

[macdaddy1111]

Originally Posted by Bob Nodine

We are in the middle of a 5 night camping trip at Cades Cove where there are no hook ups, over the air television, or any form of cell service.

This is the first time boondocking since upgrading to Lithium and installing the Gen 3 Starlink. I love the Lithium's not only for the State of Charge but absolutely love the fact that the lights no longer blink every time something turns on and off like the water pump. We can watch television and have cell phone service here and have no problem waiting until generator hours to charge the batteries back up. This is even with making two cups of coffee with the Keurig before daylight. I am writing this post via Starlink. So to me it is worth the upgrade to Lithium, even if you only install a single battery, to not have to suffer with the lights blinking all the time.

Gotta love it! Opens up so many cool places to visit!

Just did 2 weeks in ocracoke nc making and using my own power from the heavens.

At 1.6k of batteries and 2k solar i am mobile power plant!

[Bob Nodine]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

I agree with Ted above. Lights blinking have nothing to do with the type of batteries. Very likely it was caused by a bad connection at the battery terminals of the old batteries and replacing the batteries solved it.

I am sticking with my AGMs. They give me at least three days of dry camping until they get down to 50% SOC which is all I ever need.

David

No, you and Ted are wrong. I have had the flicker on every RV we have owned when the pump would run, even the diesel pusher with 600 amp/hours of golf cart batteries. The flicker is caused by the fact that flooded or AGM batteries have voltage variations as the load changes. The Lithium's hold their voltage quite constant on load changes. The reason most do not experience the flicker, and I suspect the reason you and Ted are not aware of it is because you do not boondock. When you boondock the Converter is not active holding the 12 VDC supply at a steady voltage.

When I make a cup of coffee with the Keurig you cannot detect any change in the intensity of the lights even through the inverter is drawing over a 100 amps from the battery bank. That would not be the case with AGM's.

[DavidEM]

I agree that a 100 amp draw from the inverter would definitely pull down a AGM or FLA battery down to the point that some devices would flicker, but most wouldn’t. But routinely at 10-20 Ah draw, no.

I also agree that Li batteries hold their voltage even with a 100 Ah draw.

And FWIW, I have never camped anywhere but at public sites where I had no AC power and I never saw a flicker with my two 100 Ah AGM batteries even when they were down near 50% SOC.

David

[16ACE27]

The water pump is on a 15 amp fuse. Most don't pull over 10 amps at startup. My experience is also with multiple RVs, including Travel Trailers with a single Group 27 battery and a long run to the water pump and never had lights flicker on pump start when on the battery alone.

[First RV 4 me]

Nice Thread... I'm heading down the rabbit hole knowing the interest from the savings is going to take a hit. My first question is, how will the AGM of the chasie get along with the Li ? As when the trombeta is engaged ?
The thought of removing the Bird and trombeta, installing a BIM but still I question the coexistence of the AGM's while the alternator is charging both. Knowing the rest time is different and all. I'm thinking 2X of the BB 270Ah game changers. I have 6 200 watt PV's with a 100/150 controller. Only a 3000 watt inverter. thinking of upgrading to a 5000.
All this time in retirement to sit and think of things. Tough life.......

[First RV 4 me]

Originally Posted by macdaddy1111

Gotta love it! Opens up so many cool places to visit!

Just did 2 weeks in ocracoke nc making and using my own power from the heavens.

At 1.6k of batteries and 2k solar i am mobile power plant!

10 PV's ?? thats a lotta roof !!!

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by First RV 4 me

Nice Thread... I'm heading down the rabbit hole knowing the interest from the savings is going to take a hit. My first question is, how will the AGM of the chasie get along with the Li ? As when the trombeta is engaged ?
The thought of removing the Bird and trombeta, installing a BIM but still I question the coexistence of the AGM's while the alternator is charging both. Knowing the rest time is different and all. I'm thinking 2X of the BB 270Ah game changers. I have 6 200 watt PV's with a 100/150 controller. Only a 3000 watt inverter. thinking of upgrading to a 5000.
All this time in retirement to sit and think of things. Tough life.......

In parallel while charging (either direction) is not an issue.

But, when boondocking, the BIRD will see the higher voltage of the Li bank and connect to the chassis battery for charging. This is an unnecessary draw on the house bank. To stop this, put a simple SPST switch in series with one of the control power leads on the Trombetta. Opening this switch will keep the battery banks disconnected.

[ducksface]

Lithium is down to $158 per 100ah.
We've mostly debunked needs and issues and know that they'll just drop in and do about 90% of what they tout...without other mods.

What's not to like?
It's hard to find agm at less enough price to justify the weight and life span.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by ducksface

Lithium is down to $158 per 100ah.
We've mostly debunked needs and issues and know that they'll just drop in and do about 90% of what they tout...without other mods.

What's not to like?
It's hard to find agm at less enough price to justify the weight and life span.

I see Battle Born is dropping their prices... but not by much. The farce of value can only hold for so long. It's hard to believe people are STILL buying those considering how much lower the price of competition. They'll be defunct in a year or so... then who's gonna honor their warranty??

[Bob Nodine]

Originally Posted by First RV 4 me

Nice Thread... I'm heading down the rabbit hole knowing the interest from the savings is going to take a hit. My first question is, how will the AGM of the chasie get along with the Li ? As when the trombeta is engaged ?
The thought of removing the Bird and trombeta, installing a BIM but still I question the coexistence of the AGM's while the alternator is charging both. Knowing the rest time is different and all. I'm thinking 2X of the BB 270Ah game changers. I have 6 200 watt PV's with a 100/150 controller. Only a 3000 watt inverter. thinking of upgrading to a 5000.
All this time in retirement to sit and think of things. Tough life.......

We are using a Blue Sea ML-ACR between the chassis AGM and the house Lithium battery bank. I have decided that for our application the BIM or a DC to DC charger is not necessary. With a 240 amp alternator on the E-450 there is no way I am going to burn it out charging the Lithium's. The Lithium's have a voltage of about 13.5 VDC and the alternator thinks the system needs to be in absorption mode. With the ML-ACR I have complete control and can isolate the two systems or connect them manually or can leave the system in Auto so it will connect the two systems when there is a charging source available. Boondocking I like to isolate the two but can connect them if I want to use the alternator to charge the house. I have found the alternator does not work well for bring the batteries back up after a night on the batteries. The voltage will fall back and the most current I can get out of the alternator is about 50 amps. If the battery bank is down 200 amp hours that is four hours of running the engine. Also the converter seems to think the battery bank charging needs to be in absorption mode which is even worse than the alternator. We are lucky that I installed a 100 amp bulk charger and using the generator and the bulk charger I can get about 90 amps into the battery bank.

[10scDust]

If you are on the fence about upgrading to Lithium!

I, myself, don't know enough about the Lithium batteries. I read, or see, about Lithium car batteries causing big fires, so I caution my thinking about them.

Plus, at this time I have no interest in the expense of going solar. The panels, converters, and all else equipment needed. It would seem to me, with solar panels atop of the RV, their efficiency will be affected by getting dirty and needing cleaned off. What do folks do about that? Then, I guess a platform is needed, to reach them for cleaning?

Where I live, abutting to the Cherokee Natl Forest in SE Tennessee, near Ironsburg, the pine pollen covers everything thickly starting in the spring. We call it Pine Dander.

Then, after that, I guess there is a savings from boondocking weeks at a time, not paying for hook-ups. But then, what does everyone do? Do you carry portable septic dump tanks for that necessity?
Primitive is less than hook up spots in a campground too.

To each their own. I understand that. I guess I'm one of the not-for-me crowd at this time. Whatever my reasons may be.

Reading the threads are interesting to me, I am not condoning nor condemning the topic, and maybe one day I will convert, I just need tons of information when making such a decision. For me, right now is not the time to convert over.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by Bob Nodine

We are using a Blue Sea ML-ACR between the chassis AGM and the house Lithium battery bank. I have decided that for our application the BIM or a DC to DC charger is not necessary. With a 240 amp alternator on the E-450 there is no way I am going to burn it out charging the Lithium's. The Lithium's have a voltage of about 13.5 VDC and the alternator thinks the system needs to be in absorption mode. With the ML-ACR I have complete control and can isolate the two systems or connect them manually or can leave the system in Auto so it will connect the two systems when there is a charging source available. Boondocking I like to isolate the two but can connect them if I want to use the alternator to charge the house. I have found the alternator does not work well for bring the batteries back up after a night on the batteries. The voltage will fall back and the most current I can get out of the alternator is about 50 amps. If the battery bank is down 200 amp hours that is four hours of running the engine. Also the converter seems to think the battery bank charging needs to be in absorption mode which is even worse than the alternator. We are lucky that I installed a 100 amp bulk charger and using the generator and the bulk charger I can get about 90 amps into the battery bank.

Bob - I may have missed reading, but have you switched your converter to a lithium charger? Most of the larger inverters are combination inverter/charger, and you have control over charge current.

Mine is infinitely adjustable from a trickle up to 100 amps for charging. So it will take current from the Li-BIM (engine), solar, shore power or generator in any combination and dump into the house batteries.

The charger manages the current supply and dumps any/all available to the batteries. The batteries BMS manage and determine if/when they need to receive charge.

[macdaddy1111]

Originally Posted by First RV 4 me

10 PV's ?? thats a lotta roof !!!

Yeah buddy! Also helps with roof heat coming into rig.
I have 400 watts of fold out panels under couch also if needed when running an AC.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Actually if you have batteries and an effective charger, a converter is unnecessary. You draw 12 volts directly from batteries, then recharge the batteries with the charger.

A converter only seems necessary if you DON'T have batteries and need to convert AC to DC.