invert vs inverter charger?

[galOnTheGo]

I am leaning toward the inverter charger, as it is 3000w and inverters are only 1200w. ok, so I get the inverter charger. do I need to do anything about the converter/charger that already exists in the rv? or, will they be compatible together?

[TurnerFam]

in order to 'only' use the new unit, you will need a dedicated 30amp breaker to feed it*, for the charger, and 'pass-thru' of 120v Shore Power to a dedicated 'sub-panel' for the circuits you wish the Inverter to power - so that they are powered by one, or the other, thru it's automatic transfer relay...

*then you would simply disable the converter/charger by moving it's wire from the breaker and using that same wire to the new Inverter/charger

[Chance]

Originally Posted by galOnTheGo

I am leaning toward the inverter charger, as it is 3000w and inverters are only 1200w. ok, so I get the inverter charger. do I need to do anything about the converter/charger that already exists in the rv? or, will they be compatible together?

I’m not certain the 1,200-Watt limitation is valid. I’m not promoting or recommending this particular unit, just stating that if you look for larger inverters it’s likely you’ll find options.

https://theinverterstore.com/product...ustrial-grade/

Have you decided what you will be using it for? What do you want to power, for how long, and with how much battery capacity? This all factors into equipment needs.

[taylorbob1]

GalOnTheGo:
Tell us about your huge battery bank to run the 3000 watt Inverter.
The type/brand, and where will you be storing this bank?

There was another Vegas/Axis owner who did the same mod, so you might “Search” for the details of that one.

[galOnTheGo]

the just inverter solution - I can not find them switched, that when connected to shore, it switches. Chance, thanks for the link to the 5000w inverter, but that is not switched, and has connections for plug ins which I have no need for, and it costs more. it is big! I know, I could switch it, and live with the plug ins, but when price considered, ...not for me.

turnerFam, why would I need a dedicated circuit? I agree a feeder breaker is needed, 450a based on my calculation, and a switch to switch out the existing converter, see below. from what I know, and I am still learning, the inverter will plug into existing system.


taylorBob1, big battery bank, not yet. 525 ah is all for now, what was in it. but, as lithium price drops, hoping someday, might acquire. I am planning for future expansion. as I stated, I am installing solar, accommodating expansion. I have searched, continue to gather knowledge, information on building mine, thanks. I have found LOTS of information. just when I think I have the knowledge I need, I find something new, something else. Like ducksface. that input swayed my thinking from just inverter back to inverter charger, what I was originally going for, but was changing when considering why do I need another charger? I have much more in my head that puts me where I am in my build now, but as I stated, something new always pops up. someone show me a 3000w inverter that has a switch, no plug ins, and good price, and I will change my stand again.

so, much thanks, again, to everyone here contributing to my thread, my question. as I am new to this, rv stuff, I m learning lots, and having a blast doing it. I very much look forward to getting out there with all of you in our rv. my background is tenting, rv is new to me. immenent retirement has done that to me.

also noticing that I will need a switch for the existing converter, see link

https://www.rvwithtito.com/articles/...automatically/

with that converter switch in mind, why not just remove the existing converter, or disable it, keep for spare back up in case inverter charger fails, or for when I switch the inverter off. more to consider.

[Beau388]

Solaredge sell stand alone inverters from the micro 50 watt to the industrial 33.3KW version which is three phase. The also sell split phase and single phase inverters.

[galOnTheGo]

ok, thanks, I found lots of SolarEdge residentual inverters, can you point me at an rv 3000w? I didn't see any.

here are my thoughts: 3000w is overkill for my situation, granted, but a 3000w inverter charger (IC) at $820 can handle a 1500w load easily, as opposed to a 2000w IC, for $700. save 120$ and get 33% less.
a 3000w inverter is going to consume a 525ah battery in 2 hours (250a per hour). watch what you use!
a 300w solar puts out 25a per hour. determine how long to recharge what you use.
now consider only an inverter: get two 1200w inverters spending $600 for the two, put a plug in it and plug whatever you want into it when you want it. or just get one and see how that does you. a microwave, which I have little interest in using, would handle it at about max capacity. that uses 100a per hour.
how about watching tv? not much power consumption, but now I run wires to the microwave and tv which is already integrated into my rv. a mess. thus, I want an integrated configuration. and I have seen 1200w converters with both plug in and wire in, but no switch. and remember, an inverter charger charges better than stock converters that also charge.
I could go with the 3000w IC and fuse it at half speed (1500w, 120a fuse) thus using 2 gauge wire at about 1/3 the cost plus smaller diameter than 4/0 gauge required for 3000w. again, this IC would be handling the load easily.
so if the day comes and I want to put another 300w of solar and open up the IC for something I wasn't thinking about, it is there almost ready to use, just upgrade to 2 awg cable to 4/0. and the fuse.

don't forget you need a switch to switch between existing converter and new IC, and a switch if you go with just an inverter to turn it off when connect to shore. or, turn your existing converter off leaving your IC on and let it charge your battery.

that is a lot for me to think about. am I forgetting anything? Your thoughts, Please?

[SEnsley]

Originally Posted by galOnTheGo

I have an rv (class A, Thor Vegas) that when I plug in to shore charges my battery. I want to install an inverter OR inverter charger. why would I need an inverter charger when the the rv already charges the battery? wouldn't an inverter do what I need? why would I go with and inverter charger, not just an inverter?

If your coach batteries are charging from your invert/converter why would you need another inverter?

[BASSMAN]

Your stock converter is probably not compatible with AGM, GEL Cells or Lithium batteries, most of the newer Inverter/Chargers have setting for all batteries so If you ever up grade your batteries you will have to get a different converter, The extra money for the Inverter/Charger is well worth it,

[Glensouth]

All you need is an inverter if you already have a converter. I have a converter to charge my batteries and an inverter that supplies ac power to some ac outlets in my rv. This is the way the factory set it up.

[taylorbob1]

Originally Posted by Glensouth

All you need is an inverter if you already have a converter. I have a converter to charge my batteries and an inverter that supplies ac power to some ac outlets in my rv. This is the way the factory set it up.

Most (if not all) Thor models include a Converter which charges the house batteries.
Current & new Vegas/Axis models do not include an Inverter as OEM to convert DC to AC.

However, as BASSMAN said...the standard Converter in most lower-end Thor's are not designed to to charge AGM, GEL Cells or Lithium batteries.
So, if you intend to upgrade your house batteries, then you'll either need an upgraded Converter or an integrated charger in your Inverter.

[Dabobo]

I installed a 1000 watt inverter in my rv to run the tv's and fridge. I have 2 deep cycle lead acid batteries the reason I didn't buy a combo unit was I don't plan to upgrade my batteries that need a better converter that came with the rv

[BASSMAN]

galOnTheGo, check Amazon for a Renogy 3000watt inverter/charger, it will run you about $900.00, I bought the 2000 watt inverter/charger, I got 4 100 amp hour Gel Cels and 4 100 watt solar panels, the inverter is hard wired and will run everything but the A/C, I have never run out of batteries, I only run the gen to keep the gas from gumming up or when the sun does not shine, I would like to go with the Lithium batteries, they are expensive but have some benefits over the Gel Cels and the AGMs.

[galOnTheGo]

thanks again for your thoughts. I like the upgrade to better batteries idea that an IC will handle the different types batteries where the stock converter may not. all things considered, I went with a renogy 3000w ic. I installed it, and found 2 things I was surprised about, didn't find any mention of anywhere. is it just me, or is this common knowledge that silly me just didn't know about IC's?
1) you must have the battery connected to it or it will not turn on! now you ask, why wouldnt you connect the battery silly? well, how about I remover the battery to ...(fill in your reason here), and still want to use the AC shore power...which brings me to item 2 -
2) the ac shore power doesn't just pass through, the IC MUST be turned ON to use shore power. this is when the input to the IC is your main line, the shore power line from the generator shore power switch box. So do not connect the shore power line to the IC, just put some sub-circuit on the IC you might suggest, but that seems pointless to me. I want the entire rv on IC, ACKNOWLEDGING that I can not run everything on 3000w.
item 3 about the IC, when connected to shore power, the IC turned on, it charges the battery, great. annoyance with this is that when the battery is being charged, the IC fan is running, which is, not loud, but certainly audible. I installed the IC under the bed, so trying to sleep with the fan running doesn't make me happy. so just turn IC off when I go to sleep? no. there must be a better way. and I imagined it! wire the ic such that I can bypass it when connected to shore with the flip of a switch! I spent yesterday designing the circuit, and today wiring it. great news, IT WORKS!
additionally, I wired the solar as well. it was rather easy, especially when compared to the IC installation. and, everything is working well together! the solar is feeding into the system, the IC is running powering the rv when both connected to shore and not connected and turned on, and when connected to shore and IC turned off.
I thank you all VERY MUCH for your thoughts and opinions in guiding me through this. I am very happy with the result. the IC and the solar charge controller (SCC) are out of sight, only needed to drill one small hole to feed the solar cables from the roof to SCC, that hole in the compartment where the water heater resides. I also added 3 power monitors to display battery charge and discharge, and solar charge.
You may ask, WHY did I do it the way I did. my best response, it is who I am.
Thanks again.

[BASSMAN]

galOnTheGo, there is a remote you can get for that inverter/charger and an app for your smart phone to monitor what your system is doing

[galOnTheGo]

thanks BassMan, I installed the app and and get all the stats on the solar, nice. the monitor I installed is just for a quick and easy indication of what is happening. my phone is off most of the time.
as for the IC remote, thanks for the lead, I just checked their site for that and the remote they show selling for about 70$ is NOT compatible as they say with their "new" (models listed) IC's! my model is in the NOT compatible list. I will call or email them and inquire about that. also noticed a typo in their manual, p16 section 5, battery type setting 05 6-4 for SEEDED lead acid??? they must mean sealed lead acid.

[galOnTheGo]

hi there, I am new to this forum, and was noticing some members have a pict with their post, and others do not, myself included. I was thinking, me being a junior member, maybe it just takes time, or some member level to get that. I have a pict posted in my profile but it was not showing in my posts.
well, having a few moments, I searched the forums for how to post picts, found nothing. so I went to my profile, noticed the avatar thing and figured out how to post a very small, less than 50kb pict that would appear in my posts. hey, there we are! did you all know how to do that? is there anywhere that tells you how to do that I didn't see in my search? once I read through the avitar section, figured how to upload a very small file, it was done. yippie, I hope you like my pict. I really like looking at what members come up with for their pict. our pict is us on our way up to Everest base camp. that was a very great trip. no rv that trip, but it was very great.

I have what I think is a very good idea for a place to put a spare tire, where I put mine, but I want to post a pict or link a video, and have yet to figure out how to do that. any instructions? the place is underneath, after the gas tank, and before the rear bumper. there is a "hole" there that a spare tire fits in very perfectly. wondering why Thor didn't put one there. that is an entire different thread, I know, but me, I can't imagine being in this 6 ton vehicle without a spare tire. I would loose sleep over that. now, with spare tire, solar, and inverter, Alaska, here we come!

[BASSMAN]

I bought the same cable type for a 2017 F-350 pickup and built a frame work to hold it in the center of the frame behind the fuel tank, by far the perfect place to mount a spare,

[Jim474]

Are you refering to a charge controler for olar to charge your batteries?

A note in general. If you have an inverter and a 30 amp or 50 amp RV. Your invertwr is only one o N e leg of incoming power and often only powers a few 120 plugs. If you want to power more you will need to install 2 inverters ine on each leg of incoming power.

If you buy an i verter you will want to look for kne that has ferures like pass through power this will allow ug ou t ok charge your batteries when plugged in or you can use what may have come with your rig. How ever most of them will not fully charge lithium batteries to 100%. So if you go lithium you will want to spend more on your charge controler and your inverter. If you want every thing in the rig to be live off your inverters yo uh will need inverters.

Look at magnum ms pure sign wave some of the best on the market. My best guess to your question is that that is the type of inverter you are talking about. The reason uou want that is to fully and safely charge lythium batteries. You are looking at about 6k to get two inverters 3000 to 4000 whats. Note 4000 are custom built by order only so order long before your install date.

If you want to run your Ac of inverter you will need to add a soft start kit to protect your inverter from surge when unit starts. The magnums will handle the surge but for couple hundred to protect several thousand is a good idea. Hope this answers your question. We run 4 170 AH renogy batteries. Have 8 160 watts flex solar pannels 2 of which are set up as remote rest on o. The roof. 100 amp charge controler by renogy. And 2 2800 watt magnum inverters.
We have 510 AH usable off the Batteries. Which sounds like a lot but remember when you look at amp ratings on things that run on 120 volts and you invert from 12 volts you move the 0 from voltage to amperage. For instance the coveted residential refrig thats full load amps (flr) on refrigerator lable is 10 on batery power it becomes 100 Amps.

[MENEE24]

If I am on shore power and my inverter is off, my batteries are not charging. When I am on shore power , my Inverter goes into standby mode, keeps a trickle charge on my batteries, serves as a breaker as the pass thru power goes to my appliances.