inverter install

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

Currently working on installing the cab seat swivel bases. Got the portable LED projector/Fire Stick. Making a small homemade projector screen from white "blackout" cloth. Next step is planning the inverter... just need for projector and reefer. Anything more I'll use the genny, or of course shore power.

I'll need to configure 3 outlets... one each near dinette, bedroom and refrigerator. I like the manual switch idea for the refrigerator... I just need to think it through and draw it up on paper. But I'm thinking anything beyond 1,000 watts is overkill in my case.

I have no other need other than stated for inverted AC... any upgrades will likely be to battery capacity/type. (hint hint )

1000 watts is plenty. If I had 2000watts, I would be able to add microwave, but it is not a need. In my case if I had to buy a replacement for my 1000w: it would be the same model but 2000 watts.

You should also get a Transfer Switch. It will allow the shorepower to automatically flow through to the receptacles that are wired to Inverter Circuit. From factory my Norcold was NOT wired to Inverter circuit. I could have modified, but chose to leave the OEM option in tact. I ran a new heavy duty appliance cord from my MBR TV that was already on the Inverter circuit. The remote inverter switch was OEM installed. Easy to turn Inverter on or off. My fridge runs on Inverter during all trips. I have about 3 - 4 hours to switch to propane or shore power whenever I stop. I only need about 5 mins

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

This "remote" must be a radio or infrared remote control which switches a hot internal power supply?

Otherwise, as stated, a HARD WIRED "remote" acts as a circuit breaker... physically disconnecting ALL DC POWER to the inverter. Which means it's completely disconnected, and impossible for it to be consuming power. Just like a properly wired battery disconnect switch would work.

Yes sir, if my Inverter is off, nothing is happening. Magnum makes it a point to ensure the Inverter switches are OFF before doing anything.

I have a House Use / Store switch and when in Store mode NOTHING IS HAPPENING. I don't even get the dreaded parasitic loads that I read about. However, I never use Store Mode and I may go a month with no shorepower or alternator running and batteries are fine.

Be sure to get Inverter that does NOT require active power 24/7 to operate.

[JimC]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

...Next step is planning the inverter... just need for projector and reefer. Anything more I'll use the genny, or of course shore power.

I'll need to configure 3 outlets... one each near dinette, bedroom and refrigerator. I like the manual switch idea for the refrigerator... I just need to think it through and draw it up on paper. But I'm thinking anything beyond 1,000 watts is overkill in my case.

I have no other need other than stated for inverted AC... any upgrades will likely be to battery capacity/type. (hint hint )

A properly load rated triple pole/double throw switch should allow you to easily change from shore/gen power to inverter power.

B R G in from inverter AC
B R G out to refrigerator
B R G in from shore AC

JC

[Chateau_Nomad]

In interest of keeping my install as simple as possible, I may install dedicated inverted outlets in dinette and bedroom, with a manual switch for refrigerator.

The only real caveat is I want complete control of switching the refrigerator to either propane or AC. It has no manual switch... without AC it automatically switches/defaults to propane.

Without 5 or 6 cups of coffee, I'm trying to wrap my head around a "stupid proof" simple way to do this. WITH a transfer switch, the refrigerator would never switch to propane until the batteries are depleted?? WITHOUT a transfer switch, there's the serious "stupidity induced" backfeed issue.



I'm thinking a transfer switch AND additional manual switch for refrigerator? Going this route I'd be better off wiring the inverter output to select breakers in the power center?

[OldWEB]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

This "remote" must be a radio or infrared remote control which switches a hot internal power supply?

Otherwise, as stated, a HARD WIRED "remote" acts as a circuit breaker... physically disconnecting ALL DC POWER to the inverter. Which means it's completely disconnected, and impossible for it to be consuming power. Just like a properly wired battery disconnect switch would work.

Yes you are right, my bad. I was thinking of a wireless remote for some reason, as I mentioned in my reference to TVs.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming....

[txc2936@yahoo.com]

How is the AC output protected on the Inverter? If the line shorts, does the Inverter shutoff, i don't see any CB or breaker on the Inverter.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

In interest of keeping my install as simple as possible, I may install dedicated inverted outlets in dinette and bedroom, with a manual switch for refrigerator.

The only real caveat is I want complete control of switching the refrigerator to either propane or AC. It has no manual switch... without AC it automatically switches/defaults to propane.

Without 5 or 6 cups of coffee, I'm trying to wrap my head around a "stupid proof" simple way to do this. WITH a transfer switch, the refrigerator would never switch to propane until the batteries are depleted?? WITHOUT a transfer switch, there's the serious "stupidity induced" backfeed issue.



I'm thinking a transfer switch AND additional manual switch for refrigerator? Going this route I'd be better off wiring the inverter output to select breakers in the power center?

Ahhh this is actually my favorite part. We have to 1st align on what I have to see if it applies to you?

I have Norcold Fridge. I can set as follows. (Not sure you have all three options?)

1. Gas Only
2. Electric / Gas (If no Electricity it will go to gas automatically)
3. Electric Only

When I travel...
I set the Norcold to #3 Electric Only
I set the Inverter Remote Switch to on

The batteries will feed the fridge the entire trip.

When I am not traveling and have shore power - I set Norcold to #3 Electric Only

When I am not traveling and have generator - I set Norcold to #3 Electric Only

When I am not traveling and have no shore power - I set Norcold #1 Gas only Only

When I am not traveling and have no genny or shore power - I set Norcold #1 Gas only Only


So effectively since I have wired my fridge to inverter circuit, I no longer have any real need for the fridge to be set on #2 Electric / Gas.

What I have to watch for is to make sure the Inverter Remote Switch is on, a green light inside. If I forget, my fridge will start to warm up because it will NOT go to propane ANYMORE while we are traveling.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by txc2936@yahoo.com

How is the AC output protected on the Inverter? If the line shorts, does the Inverter shutoff, i don't see any CB or breaker on the Inverter.

Some have a push-button type circuit breaker, others electronically shut down on sensed overload.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by txc2936@yahoo.com

How is the AC output protected on the Inverter? If the line shorts, does the Inverter shutoff, i don't see any CB or breaker on the Inverter.

I will take a stab at this. It has been a while since the ACE (Ted) has had to correct me; so let throw a bone and step out on a limb

I assume you are not using a transfer switch or pass through; so you are only concerned with output from Inverter. You Inverter should have over current protection; so for starters it should NOT allow allow excess amperage. There should also be DC fuse between inverter and battery. However if your wiring is is not the correct gauge per your owners manual stated amperage; you could be asking for trouble, because your Inverter can't know that it was wired improperly.


Bonus: For pass through, which I have, protection is on a 15 amp breaker that ties to Main AC Panel.

[Chateau_Nomad]

I have two refrigerator options: OFF or AUTO. Auto first looks for electric. If no electric (currently shore power or generator) it switches to propane. It always defaults to AC, and if AC is available, I cannot switch to propane... without removing the AC source.

With an inverter, propane would be the last resort choice... likely only if boondocking. Even so I would test for power consumption.

So... I understand you want the shortest wiring for the inverter to be the DC from the batteries... so install the inverter as close as possible to the batteries?

Considering I only need three "power points" (dinette, bedroom and fridge) it seems it may be more economical to install two dedicated "inverter only" receptacles for dinette and bedroom. Then, wire a 3-way switch for the refrigerator... "AC - INVERTER - OFF".

This way a transfer switch isn't needed - and I accomplish my goal of controlling the refrigerator better. Seems fairly simple... am I missing anything obvious??

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

I have two refrigerator options: OFF or AUTO. Auto first looks for electric. If no electric (currently shore power or generator) it switches to propane. It always defaults to AC, and if AC is available, I cannot switch to propane... without removing the AC source.

I could still work with that limitation.
1. Auto - Electric / Gas (If no Electricity it will go to gas automatically)
2. Off

When I travel...
I set the Norcold to #1 Auto
I set the Inverter Remote Switch to On

The batteries will feed the fridge the entire trip.

When I am not traveling and have shore power - I set Norcold to #1 Auto (If you had Transfer Switch it would be automatic, but you could do your 3 way to get power from AC)

When I am not traveling and have generator - I set Norcold to #1 Auto (If you had Transfer Switch it would be automatic, but you could do your 3 way to get power from AC)

When I am not traveling and have no shore power - I set Norcold #1 Auto and turn Remote Switch to Off, so propane comes on

When I am not traveling and have no genny or shore power - I set Norcold #1 Auto and turn Remote Switch to Off, so propane comes on

With an inverter, propane would be the last resort choice... likely only if boondocking. Even so I would test for power consumption.

When boondocking you should plan to use Propane not inverter. Even with my greatest AGM batteries in the world vMax tanks, I can only run my Norcold fridge about 4 hours off the batteries. I never knowingly run the fridge off the inverter except for transition time getting ready for a trip or unloading from a trip where shore power nor generator may not be used.

So... I understand you want the shortest wiring for the inverter to be the DC from the batteries... so install the inverter as close as possible to the batteries? Yes you want as short of a run as possible and correct gauge wire. For 1000watts #2 awg if less than 5', #1 if 5' - 10' and #1/0 if 10' - 15'

Considering I only need three "power points" (dinette, bedroom and fridge) it seems it may be more economical to install two dedicated "inverter only" receptacles for dinette and bedroom. Then, wire a 3-way switch for the refrigerator... "AC - INVERTER - OFF".

This way a transfer switch isn't needed - and I accomplish my goal of controlling the refrigerator better. Seems fairly simple... am I missing anything obvious??

The transfer switch isn't required, your plan will work. Just think it is worth for the few extra dollars. i.e My Home Transfer Switch isn't needed to supply power to house for generator. I can get 3 long extension cords and plug in my TV, Fridge and TV

But for kicks if you were looking at a transfer switch....

$69 CSW TS15 https://www.ebay.com/itm/324717073315
$311 CSW 2012 https://www.ebay.com/itm/32471705043...8AAOSwv4Vg8cXh

So net investment of $380 if you do it yourself with 2,000 watts.

You can find cheaper parts or forgo the 2000watt inverter to get a 1000w. My guess is that the 2000 watt may be easier to find.

[sportcoupe]

I added a second transfer switch for my 1500 watt inverter to my existing transfer switch under the bed. This allows me to easily run all TV's and outlets from inverter without running generator.

I do have to open the converter circuit breaker otherwise it will try to charge the batteries the inverter is running from, shutting down the inverter.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00153EYTO



.

[Beau388]

You guy do realize there are inverters that are all automatic. They come on automatically when on shore power or generator to provide UPS power. They monitor power draw and go automatically into "power saver mode" if there is no current draw. They have a 30 amp or 50 amp pass through relay. They have a remote control panel allows you to set the battery voltage level before auto shut off and 5 other automatic functions.
Since my coach came with a dumb Xantrex Pro 100 modified sign wave inverter, it was relatively easy to install a smart Xantrex Freedom Xi 2000 true sine wave inverter its place with a sub-panel. Now every 120 volt circuit is powered except the GFCI circuits.

When driving down the road, when the generator is off, and the fridge or the portable ice maker comes, on the inverter wakes up supplies the power as needed then goes back to sleep. Basically the same system as the generator's auto start - if certain conditions are met the generator runs otherwise it is off. In power saver mode (asleep), it draws less than 2.4 watts.

[Ed FV racer]

Hi everyone, just home after nearly two week trip with long weekend at the track and then nearly a week in Lakeland FL for Sun and Fun.


The inverter is working fine and easily powers the TV and makes coffee in the morning.


The cooling fans are at the back of the inverter and if ever needed should have plenty of air available to them. The wires to the inverter from the batteries is I think #2 from Harbor Freight and the disconnect switch is what we use for race cars and I think also from HF.


I like the display on the inverter since it shows the battery level if you look at it and we did once get it down to one bar before running the generator since Sun and Fun is primitive camping so no hook ups unless you have one of the few full service sites.


Encountered a new problem at the track and the awning wouldn't work. Appears as the switch down by the floor to operate is OK and after the wife finally located the wiring diagram from Thor, the switch just sends the open or close to a controller. Jee wiz, the switch could have just either made a ground or switched power to motor to open or close. I am guessing wife needs to go shopping at one of her favorite spots, Amazon, after I find out what controller I need.


So I have a few things to work on before next trip for racing in June, ah the joys of owning a motor home!


Ed

[ducksface]

https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f2...1-a-18559.html

My install is in the same(ish) location as the op.
My control location is in one of the pictures.
We have since taken the air conditioner off of the inverter because I haven't added the extra batteries needed.

Something little known about my inveter is it will pull power from the batteries to enhance low shore voltage. It can do this and charge the batteries by bouncing.

150amp charging circuit.

67lbs of inverter.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Beau388

You guy do realize there are inverters that are all automatic. They come on automatically when on shore power or generator to provide UPS power. They monitor power draw and go automatically into "power saver mode" if there is no current draw. They have a 30 amp or 50 amp pass through relay. They have a remote control panel allows you to set the battery voltage level before auto shut off and 5 other automatic functions.
Since my coach came with a dumb Xantrex Pro 100 modified sign wave inverter, it was relatively easy to install a smart Xantrex Freedom Xi 2000 true sine wave inverter its place with a sub-panel. Now every 120 volt circuit is powered except the GFCI circuits.

When driving down the road, when the generator is off, and the fridge or the portable ice maker comes, on the inverter wakes up supplies the power as needed then goes back to sleep. Basically the same system as the generator's auto start - if certain conditions are met the generator runs otherwise it is off. In power saver mode (asleep), it draws less than 2.4 watts.

I am not following or simply a tad slow here.

Why would you want the Inverter ON when Shorepower or Generator is running?

How does appliances on Inverter circuit get power to turn on to wake the inverter?


My Inverter has Pass Through but I still have remote to turn on / off from inside the RV. The Inverter Transfer Switch senses when Shorepower or Generator is being used and will feed with either of the two automatically.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Beau388

You guy do realize there are inverters that are all automatic. They come on automatically when on shore power or generator to provide UPS power. They monitor power draw and go automatically into "power saver mode" if there is no current draw. They have a 30 amp or 50 amp pass through relay. They have a remote control panel allows you to set the battery voltage level before auto shut off and 5 other automatic functions.
Since my coach came with a dumb Xantrex Pro 100 modified sign wave inverter, it was relatively easy to install a smart Xantrex Freedom Xi 2000 true sine wave inverter its place with a sub-panel. Now every 120 volt circuit is powered except the GFCI circuits.

When driving down the road, when the generator is off, and the fridge or the portable ice maker comes, on the inverter wakes up supplies the power as needed then goes back to sleep. Basically the same system as the generator's auto start - if certain conditions are met the generator runs otherwise it is off. In power saver mode (asleep), it draws less than 2.4 watts.

Yep, you can buy just about anything with enough $.
As you add features to an inverter you add $ to the cost.

If all you want to do is power a TV on the batteries why would you buy an inverter for $$$$$$$$ when a simple $35 inverter will do the job?

Different solutions for different needs.

And sometimes, the pocketbook dictates the solution selected vs the solution wanted.

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

I am not following or simply a tad slow here.

Why would you want the Inverter ON when Shorepower or Generator is running?

How does appliances on Inverter circuit get power to turn on to wake the inverter?


My Inverter has Pass Through but I still have remote to turn on / off from inside the RV. The Inverter Transfer Switch senses when Shorepower or Generator is being used and will feed with either of the two automatically.

If you have DirecTV, as I do, it is annoying when the shore power drops out when your neighbor tries to start all three A/Cs at the same time or lighting hits the high line and trips the lighting arrester. If the inverter is set to pickup the load within 10ms, it acts a a Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS). I also use a Pepwave Mnii-Max for my Internet connection. The UPS function keeps the Pepwaye from recycling and reacquiring a new telephone cellular line. This is important in a Zoom business call or face time with my 16 year old grandson.



The "Power Saver function" turns the inverter off if there is less then a 0.1 amp draw from the inverter. Every 2 to 3 seconds it fires up the monitoring circuit to see if a new load has appeared (there is some resistance in the load lines). This periodic checking does draw some current for the 15 ms it takes to check; thus, the 2.4 watt average draw. This is much less than the idle draw of a sine wave inverter which is about 3% of its rared capacity (60 watts in my case). Any appliance using a wireless remote cannot be used in Power Saver mode unless the remote function is disabled.
If there is no 120 volt power to the pass through relay, you can either turn the inverter completely off or put it into power saver mode. As soon as power is applied to the pass through relay, it comes back on. The delay time from loss of 120 volt power to inverter pickup of the load is settable from immediate to 5 seconds.

[sportcoupe]

Of course there are inverters with integrated transfer switch and even integrated chargers.

I wanted nothing to do with those units. I want an inverter that does one thing well, invert DC to AC.

Many RV's do not have factory inverter installed. The easiest way to add one that powers all the coaches TV's and outlets is to wire in a second transfer switch or make a power cord that plugs into the RV shore power jack.

I also do not blindly accept 120vac into my coach without being monitored by an inline surge protector. Doesn't matter if it is shore power, generator power or inverter power. It gets assessed by my surge protector.

If I wanted a UPS, I would buy a UPS. My laptop is a UPS, BTW. It has a battery. So are my hotspots.




.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by txc2936@yahoo.com

This is becoming a very popular modification. Pretty much follows your schematic above. I have a picture of my 1000W inverter installed right over the batteries in the battery compartment, this provides short DC pwr cable runs.

I install the inverter and 200 Amp Fuse to the lower surface of the floor. I then route the wire to an additional plug under the table, the plug on the right is the factory AC plug. I then have a refrigerator switch back at the pwr center. i can select shore pwr or inverter to run refrig.

This is exactly what I'd like to do... simple and cost effective. Question... could you give me a link to that refrigerator switch? And also a simple drawing showing how you wired it in with the existing refrigerator AC outlet? THANKS!!