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Old 07-30-2021, 02:51 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Judge View Post
Now I'm leaning towards the Big Battery LiFePO4 -170Ah after reading several review and watching a few YouTube Videos. The specs are better the Battle Born 100Ah with a higher continuous discharge rating and a higher peak current rating (good for starting the genny).


Max Continuous Discharge Current: 175A
Max Continuous Power: 2240W
Max Discharge Peak Current: 350A (6 Seconds)
Voltage Range: 9.8 – 14.6V


The other features I like about the Big Battery LiFePO4 are:

- BMS Cold Temp Charging Protection

- They have a LED display showing the battery voltage

- Each battery has it's own on / off switch


I also found 10% discount coupon online. I can get two of the Big Battery 170Ah units to give me a total of 340Ah for $1841 shipped (apparently no tax) vs buying three of the Battle Born 100Ah units giving me 300Ah for $2544.

I'm going to sleep on it and then make a decision in the morning. If I am going this route, I would like to get everything delivered next week so I can get it installed before our 7-week trip.
I have no opinion on the Big Battery since I don't know them and haven't used them...specs look good though. Battle Born is well known and reviews are very solid though. I can speak to the quality and support so far. If you go with a different brand, I just recommend you really do your research before pulling the trigger on an investment like this. You really want to make sure it is safe and reliable.

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Old 07-30-2021, 10:46 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by aznytfury View Post
I have no opinion on the Big Battery since I don't know them and haven't used them...specs look good though. Battle Born is well known and reviews are very solid though. I can speak to the quality and support so far. If you go with a different brand, I just recommend you really do your research before pulling the trigger on an investment like this. You really want to make sure it is safe and reliable.
Agreed.......

I found some videos showing the Big Battery units are serviceable. Someone did a dissambly of a unit and the construction of them is very impressive.

The individual cells are removable. The BMS circuitry is replaceable. The temp sensor is replaceable. And there is a 300A user replaceble internal fuse.

I'm going to call them today and talk to them a bit. Their website says "Made in the USA" and the 10-Year warranty is making it an intriguing option. Although I think these 10-year warranty is more of a gimic. A manufacturing defect is likely to show itself earlier rather than later and it doesn't cover the battery reaching the end of its life from normal use.... even if that happens in 5 years. Still it is not a bad thing.

I will agree that Battle Born is the safest play.... given their ties with Tesla and time in the market.
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Old 07-30-2021, 04:21 PM   #23
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I spoke with Big Battery today...... here is a little info in case anyone is interested.

They stock all of the battery components but not inidividual models of the various batteries.

When an order is placed, it takes them about a week to take the components and assemble the battery based on the capacity ordered. They then test each battery they build for the order before shipping it out.

They have offices in the US, Singapore, China and Hong Kong. It sounds like most of the individual components are built overseas and then do finally assmbly and test in the US for orders in the Americas.

I do like the idea that they build the batteries to order and then test them before shipping. That should allow them to uncover any bad components or battery modules before they ship out the order.

Still trying to decide which way to go. My biggest concern is if I order today, they would probably ship next Friday so I would get them about a week before our trip.

Battle Born has batteries in stock but they said it takes two days from order to shipment.

Decisions.... decisions......
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Old 07-30-2021, 07:16 PM   #24
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Now I'm leaning towards the Big Battery LiFePO4 -170Ah after reading several review and watching a few YouTube Videos. The specs are better the Battle Born 100Ah with a higher continuous discharge rating and a higher peak current rating (good for starting the genny).

.....cut.....

Have you considered having to start the diesel V8 with emergency circuit, not just starting the genny?

I don’t know but assume your Ford V8 can be jumped from house batteries. If so, will either option have problems due to high current?
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Old 07-30-2021, 07:34 PM   #25
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Have you considered having to start the diesel V8 with emergency circuit, not just starting the genny?

I don’t know but assume your Ford V8 can be jumped from house batteries. If so, will either option have problems due to high current?

That is a fair point…… but I think I should be ok.

I watched some videos of a guy starting a diesel generator with a single 170Ah Big Battery. He was monitoring the current while cranking. The genny hadn’t run in years and the solo 170Ah was cranking the thing no problem. The guy didn’t get it started but the battery held its own after cranking it 3 or 4 times.

I also have two chassis batteries so as long as I don’t leave the headlights on I should be ok….. and I’ll replace them before they start getting bad. I also carry a jump pack.

With solar to keep things charged, the jump pack and 300 - 340Ah of LiFePO4’s, I think I should be able to start the Power Stroke via the Emergency Start switch. If things really go off the rails, there’s AAA or Good Sam.

The other thing I did think of was if the LiFePO4's couldn't get the genny running, I could always hit the Emergency Start Switch to tie the chassis batteries to them for more power.
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Old 07-31-2021, 11:34 AM   #26
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I ended up pulling the trigger on the Big Battery LiFePO4's. I saw enough video testing and reviews online and read enough about them to feel that it was worth giving them a try.

Two of the 170Ah batteries for 340Ah were $700 less than three of the Battle Born 100Ah.

I do ike the foot print as well. If my measurements were correct, If they work as well as expected, I could fit a third one in my battery compartment to give me 510Ah eventually. They even make some different footprints so they can be installed in other locations than a battery compartment in RV's and boats.

I also like the quick disconnect cable system to make them easy to remove and the power button to shut them down. I will probably lose the battery disconnect switch I installed since I can just shut off each battery easily.

I ordered the Progressive Dynamics PD9160ALV LI Converter / Charger from Amazon. I am hoping I get the version built in 2021 and not old stock. They added a 13.6V Float mode to the new version for the LI batteries.

I also ordered the LI-BIM 225 from Battle Born. They were hard to find right now.... guessing because of the supply chain issues.

My biggest challenge may be securing them in may battery compartment. I purchased car battery hold-downs when I installed the additional two flooded batteries so I may do something similar with these. It will be a bonus to cut over 160lbs of weight too.

I am hoping to get everything before August 13 so I can get it installed before we leave for our 7-week trip on the 20th. I'll post pictures and updates of the project.
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Old 07-31-2021, 12:42 PM   #27
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I will be very interested to see how they perform. The website shows a special for 6 kWh for $1,999 that is much cheaper than anything I have seen advertised. It’s based on 4 X 120 Ah X 12.8 Volt batteries.

A cost of around $330 per kWh is less than 50% of some branded lithium batteries. That’s competitive with generator costs for those who don’t need to run air conditioners around the clock. Hope they work great.
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Old 08-01-2021, 05:01 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Judge View Post
I ended up pulling the trigger on the Big Battery LiFePO4's. I saw enough video testing and reviews online and read enough about them to feel that it was worth giving them a try.

Two of the 170Ah batteries for 340Ah were $700 less than three of the Battle Born 100Ah.

I do ike the foot print as well. If my measurements were correct, If they work as well as expected, I could fit a third one in my battery compartment to give me 510Ah eventually. They even make some different footprints so they can be installed in other locations than a battery compartment in RV's and boats.

I also like the quick disconnect cable system to make them easy to remove and the power button to shut them down. I will probably lose the battery disconnect switch I installed since I can just shut off each battery easily.

I ordered the Progressive Dynamics PD9160ALV LI Converter / Charger from Amazon. I am hoping I get the version built in 2021 and not old stock. They added a 13.6V Float mode to the new version for the LI batteries.

I also ordered the LI-BIM 225 from Battle Born. They were hard to find right now.... guessing because of the supply chain issues.

My biggest challenge may be securing them in may battery compartment. I purchased car battery hold-downs when I installed the additional two flooded batteries so I may do something similar with these. It will be a bonus to cut over 160lbs of weight too.

I am hoping to get everything before August 13 so I can get it installed before we leave for our 7-week trip on the 20th. I'll post pictures and updates of the project.
Awesome! Good luck with the install. Would love to see the pics when done!
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Old 08-01-2021, 07:54 PM   #29
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Not quite following

I’ve been researching this topic for a while and I think I have digested everything in this thread (and elsewhere) except the integration to my firefly system. (2020 Thor Hurricane 29m)

Could anyone expand a little on why this is necessary?

For example, if I buy a converter that has a “lithium” setting, do I need to change anything in the firefly programming?

“ Option 1) Use a compatible existing charge profile via the Firefly preset battery configurations (i.e.: many LiFePO4 batteries will work with the AGM profile on the Magnum Energy Inverters), Option 2) Use an external Magnum Energy Remote (ME-ARC) and connect directly to the I/C to do a custom charge profile configuration, Option 3) Work with Firefly Integrations to customize your software on your control panel/screen to accommodate custom charging profiles.”

That little section of all of this (above) is what’s getting me.

As info I am looking to build a relatively small system. Probably 300ah.
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Old 08-01-2021, 08:17 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by mburns884 View Post
I’ve been researching this topic for a while and I think I have digested everything in this thread (and elsewhere) except the integration to my firefly system. (2020 Thor Hurricane 29m)

Could anyone expand a little on why this is necessary?

For example, if I buy a converter that has a “lithium” setting, do I need to change anything in the firefly programming?

“ Option 1) Use a compatible existing charge profile via the Firefly preset battery configurations (i.e.: many LiFePO4 batteries will work with the AGM profile on the Magnum Energy Inverters), Option 2) Use an external Magnum Energy Remote (ME-ARC) and connect directly to the I/C to do a custom charge profile configuration, Option 3) Work with Firefly Integrations to customize your software on your control panel/screen to accommodate custom charging profiles.”

That little section of all of this (above) is what’s getting me.

As info I am looking to build a relatively small system. Probably 300ah.
For clarification, your Hurricane has an inverter, not a converter, correct? If it is an inverter/charger combo unit, and it has a lithium setting, you don't need to change anything. If it doesn't have a lithium setting, often the AGM setting is close enough to approximate it. My 2017 Aria is a bit older and there wasn't a lithium setting, so I needed it added via a 'custom' battery selection option so that I could set the charge voltage set points. That is why I paid Firefly to make the software changes to my older coach so that I could put in the lithium batteries. Also, technically, depending on what type of LiFePO4 batteries you buy, many of them are 'drop-in' plug-n-play that will work with existing charging systems.
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Old 08-01-2021, 08:29 PM   #31
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For clarification, your Hurricane has an inverter, not a converter, correct? If it is an inverter/charger combo unit, and it has a lithium setting, you don't need to change anything. If it doesn't have a lithium setting, often the AGM setting is close enough to approximate it. My 2017 Aria is a bit older and there wasn't a lithium setting, so I needed it added via a 'custom' battery selection option so that I could set the charge voltage set points. That is why I paid Firefly to make the software changes to my older coach so that I could put in the lithium batteries. Also, technically, depending on what type of LiFePO4 batteries you buy, many of them are 'drop-in' plug-n-play that will work with existing charging systems.
I have both. The converter is an Arterra Deck Mount WF - 9855. My understanding is that this converter will work with lithium batteries but I will lose some efficiency. I intend to replace it in the process. The inverter is a separate unit. It is a wF-5110R. It’s only 1000 watts and I want to upgrade to at least 2k, so it will also be upgraded in this process.

At this point I have made no form decision as to whether I will keep them as independent equipment, or if I will replace them with a combo unit. Still pricing and studying.
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Old 08-01-2021, 08:32 PM   #32
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I have both. The converter is an Arterra Deck Mount WF - 9855. My understanding is that this converter will work with lithium batteries but I will lose some efficiency. I intend to replace it in the process. The inverter is a separate unit. It is a wF-5110R. It’s only 1000 watts and I want to upgrade to at least 2k, so it will also be upgraded in this process.

At this point I have made no form decision as to whether I will keep them as independent equipment, or if I will replace them with a combo unit. Still pricing and studying.
Ah...understood. Yea, I think you are correct. That converter/charger should work to charge any Lithium battery with a built-in BMS that was designed as a 'drop in' replacement to FLA/AGM batteries. You should be good without any need to change the software on the Firefly unit.
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Old 08-01-2021, 08:35 PM   #33
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Ah...understood. Yea, I think you are correct. That converter/charger should work to charge any Lithium battery with a built-in BMS that was designed as a 'drop in' replacement to FLA/AGM batteries. You should be good without any need to change the software on the Firefly unit.
Thanks! I appreciate all the info in this thread. Your original post is perhaps the best I have seen on the subject.
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Old 08-01-2021, 10:19 PM   #34
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Thanks! I appreciate all the info in this thread. Your original post is perhaps the best I have seen on the subject.
I also have the FireFLy system but I am replacing my Progressive Dynamics Converter / Charger with their model specifically deisgned for Lithium batteries. I also will not need to make any changes to the FireFly system.
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Old 08-01-2021, 10:33 PM   #35
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I also have the FireFLy system but I am replacing my Progressive Dynamics Converter / Charger with their model specifically deisgned for Lithium batteries. I also will not need to make any changes to the FireFly system.
Can I ask what you are replacing the existing converter with?
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Old 08-01-2021, 10:39 PM   #36
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Can I ask what you are replacing the existing converter with?
I replaced the original stock WFCO Converter with a Progressive Dynamics PD9260 when I bought the coach and it has worked great. I decided to stick with Progressive Dynamics and ordered the PD9160ALV.

It will charge at 14.6V at 60A and the 2021 model now has a second stage that drops the voltage to 13.6V after the battery is fully charged.
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Old 08-02-2021, 12:08 AM   #37
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Sometimes this Lithium quest feels like the movie National Treasure. The more I learn, the more questions I have!

So if I understand the function of my converter correctly, all it is doing is taking AC power and converting to DC power in order to charge the batteries.

When researching hybrid inverters I see several that charge the batteries.

If I have an inverter that will charge the batteries, is there any need for the converter at all?

Is one of the two more efficient?

(Edit: is the inverter that also charges the batteries what is called a combination converter/inverter?)
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Old 08-02-2021, 12:56 AM   #38
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.....cut....

(Edit: is the inverter that also charges the batteries what is called a combination converter/inverter?)

Manufacturers normally refer to them as “Inverter/Charger” or “Inverter Charger”.


For what it’s worth, the term “hybrid” when used describing an inverter means something else, and difficult to explain here. A Google search should explain it enough if you are interested in knowing what that technology can do in context of RV application.
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Old 08-02-2021, 12:57 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by mburns884 View Post
Sometimes this Lithium quest feels like the movie National Treasure. The more I learn, the more questions I have!

So if I understand the function of my converter correctly, all it is doing is taking AC power and converting to DC power in order to charge the batteries.

When researching hybrid inverters I see several that charge the batteries.

If I have an inverter that will charge the batteries, is there any need for the converter at all?

Is one of the two more efficient?

(Edit: is the inverter that also charges the batteries what is called a combination converter/inverter?)

Ok.... so first.... the Converter / Charger has two jobs. One is coverting AC power to DC to charge the batteries and two.... provide DC power to the coach lights and appliances that use 12V. For example... if you are connected to shore power or using the generator and you put the USE / STORE switch in the STORE position, the Converter will still provide 12V power to the coach but it won't charge the batteries. The advanatge is that you can still have 12V if your house batteries were completely dead when shore power is available.

There are also Inverter / Chargers. The Inverter is converting DC power to AC power and it can also charge the batteries. The charger portion can be wired in such a way to also provide 12V to the house so you don't need a Converter.

Now if you have an Inverter / Charger already, you need to check the documentation to see if it can support LiFePO4 batteries. Many can be adjusted to support lithium battery charging.
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Old 08-02-2021, 01:13 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Chance View Post
Manufacturers normally refer to them as “Inverter/Charger” or “Inverter Charger”.


For what it’s worth, the term “hybrid” when used describing an inverter means something else, and difficult to explain here. A Google search should explain it enough if you are interested in knowing what that technology can do in context of RV application.
Got it and thanks.

I do understand the hybrid designation is a different matter. I want to be able to draw power to the inverter from multiple sources at the same time - one of my goals is running both AC’s if forced down to 30 amp in the summer. I believe the “hybrid” inverter will allow me to tap into stored energy if necessary to add a few amps when needed.
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