Lithium Upgrade

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad;376505 [snip

Based on these parameters, would a 350 amp ANL fuse be too high? Should I base the fuse rating on the PEAK discharge (200 amps) or use the BMS cutoff of 330 amps? I understand the point of the battery fuse is to protect the batteries in case of a catastrophic short - which could easily produce 1000+ amps - but I also don't want to fry the BMS.

I'm referencing an install of 100 Ah Battle Born batteries using a 300 amp fuse... in which case looks like a protection using peak discharge?

The circuit breaker size (amperage) is always based on the wire size (capacity in amperes based on the type of wire insulation) and not the device the wire/cable goes to. Be sure and use the chart for direct current and not alternating current. Then there is the fact that multi core cable can carry less current in the same diameter when compared to solid core (i.e. single core 1 AWG cable can carry 180 amps in open air but the same wire gauge of 43 strand cable can carry only 55 amps).

When carrying large amperage loads, I find it is convenient to use two or three smaller gauge cables rather than one very large copper single wire cable.

When I upgraded my inverter from 1,000 watts to 2,000 watts, I simply ran another 1 AWG, 6 strand cable to the inverter and to the ground parallel to the original Thor MC plant 750 cable.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Looks like I can use a terminal mounted t-class 300 amp fuse at the battery terminal. Then 2/0 welding cable for connections... very short cable runs.

[Ejohn2317]

Originally Posted by BeeDoc

I just completed a Lithium upgrade on my 2018 Thor Citation, and went with the following

- 2x LiFePO4 -170Ah BigBattery
- Progressive Dynamics 12v 55 Amp 4600 Series Replacement Converter Lithium Profile
- BMV-712 Smart Battery Monitor

My question is, do I need to add a BIM-225 Lithium? I believe my Citation currently has an Isolator Solenoid, which doesn't allow for the house to charge the chassis. Or is it best to leave it "as-is"?

I would definitely add the BIM. The high output very expensive alternator on the Mercedes could become destroyed because it's trying to charge the lithium batteries. The Bim will safely charge the batteries protect the alternator and has an added bonus that there's a switch you can add if you need to boost the chassis batteries. The BIM-225 is recommended by battleborn I used it on mine and I'm charging renergy 100 amp hour batteries x2. The alternative is a DC to DC charger. The DC to DC charger has a fan moving parts is noisy and in my experience a regular relay without moving parts will last longer .the Bim is also cheaper.

[Ejohn2317]

It's been 3 years since I installed my lithium setup. If I had to do it again I would have been stalled a renergy 3000 watt inverter charger. This would have definitely simplified the setup by eliminating the progressive dynamic charger upgrade also the relay switch that you have to add so that you're not charging your batteries while you're running from your batteries.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by Ejohn2317

It's been 3 years since I installed my lithium setup. If I had to do it again I would have been stalled a renergy 3000 watt inverter charger. This would have definitely simplified the setup by eliminating the progressive dynamic charger upgrade also the relay switch that you have to add so that you're not charging your batteries while you're running from your batteries.

I was having second thoughts about a 3k inverter/charger, but went with it anyway. Doubt I'll ever need the extra headroom. Bonus is it has built-in transfer switch for pass-through of AC if shore or generator power is detected... at 1/3 the price of a Multiplus. I also went with the Li-BIM 225.

[Ejohn2317]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

I was having second thoughts about a 3k inverter/charger, but went with it anyway. Doubt I'll ever need the extra headroom. Bonus is it has built-in transfer switch for pass-through of AC if shore or generator power is detected... at 1/3 the price of a Multiplus. I also went with the Li-BIM 225.

That's the way to go but it wasn't available 3 years ago that's how quickly this technology is moving

[Chateau_Nomad]

The not so fun part is now I have to dig into the rats nest of wiring under the bed behind the WFCO power center panel. At least I can eliminate and remove the WFCO converter.
Edit: The inverter/charger I purchased was 1/2 (not 1/3) the price of a Victron Multiplus... about $825.

[TheNod]

Originally Posted by aznytfury

The conversion to LiFePO4 is complete!! Couldn't be happier with how it turned out. Here is what we did:

• 600 ah of Battle Born LiFePO4 batteries
• Li-BIM 225 Battery Isolation Manager
• Victron Energy BMW-712 battery monitor and 500 amp shunt
• Firefly Integrations custom software package to interface the Magnum Energy MS2812 I/C and set custom charging profile
• Battery cutoff switch in the house battery compartment (oddly, there wasn't one included in the Thor Aria from the factory)
• Victron Energy Temperature monitor probe (we live in AZ...it's a concern)

...

Inspired to tackle my own Lithium upgrade. I am still early in the project, but have the batteries installed now. Went with the Battleborn GameChangers for a total of 810ah.

I did contact FireFly and confirmed that it would run me $1200 to upgrade the system to support the LFP charging profile. And since my screen is not user updatable, I'd have to ship it back to them for the update. If I want a screen that is user updatable, they'll sell me one for an additional $800 and then I still get to spend the $1200 software upgrade charge! Alternatively, I can bypass the FireFly system and use Magnum's ME-RC remote control to set an LFP profile. That route will save me little over $1000, so I am likely doing that for this season at least.

Anyway, thank you AZNytFury for the information that got the ball rolling for me!

[SteveCie]

LITHIUM BATTERY UPGRADE
Lithium BatteryUPGRADE & relocate it within your Class C Coach and add SOLAR
We have just returned from our 117 day Alaska leg of our Golden Anniversary Adventure.

Our RV journey to Alaska was in a word - incredible. Absolutely no regrets making the journey whatsoever.

We planned the trip for nearly 3 years, listing points of interest we wanted to see, not only in Alaska, but in the lower 48 States and the Canadian Provinces we would be traveling through to get to Alaska.

While making extensive preparations for this 17,000 mile journey, among the many concerns I addressed was concerns about the house batteries location, considering we expected to drive extensively on dirt, gravel and chip seal roads through the Canadian Provinces and Alaska. On our Class C the batteries are mounted beneath the coach access stairs and are exposed to the elements. The road debris would wreak havoc on the batteries.

The answer was to relocate them - but where?

Additionally, I considered an upgrade to Solar Energy generation to enhance our ability to boondock without running the generator constantly .

The answer proved simple. I removed the batteries from their factory location and tied all the positive battery cables together and insulated them with shrink tubing and heavy rubber hose. This insured that all circuits remain intact .

I then mounted a 200 a/h Lithium Ion Battery inside the dinette seat compartment, which is where the 12 volt isolator switch happens to be located.

I attached the battery positive cable to the input lug of the isolator switch, and ran a ground cable from the battery through he floor and attached it to the main ground lug of the generator.

Next, I mounted a solar panel controller within the same compartment, and attached it to the existing solar panel circuit I discovered that led to the roof, where I mounted two 100 Watt Solar Panels. The panels were easily mounted with screws into the roof, and a heavy coat of Di-Cor.

Next step was to upgrade the original charger converter to a Lithium friendly charger. This step is necessary to fully charge the Lithium Battery properly. (You can do without this, but you will only appreciate 70 to 80 percent of the battery charge.)

Together with our 2000 Watt Inverter, we can boondock up to 6 days without the need to run the generator ( and watch TV a couple of hours a day too!)

I plan to add additional solar panels in the near future now that I know my system is totally functional.

[Chateau_Nomad]

I moved my power components (200Ah lithium batteries, 3k inverter/charger, 40A solar charge controller, battery disconnect, PV disconnect, bus bar/fuses) to under the bed and a rear storage compartment.

I had to re-cable power to the generator and breaker, but that was fairly simple.

I replaced my existing (2) 100 watt roof solar panels with three 200 watts... 600 watts total. That required routing new 10AWG cable down through the refer vent, under the bathroom and across to the driver side. That was fun...

So far it's worked great. My intent wasn't to accommodate A/C... for that I just use the generator or shore power. However, it will run the AC for at least an hour. But my intent was to run everything else for several days.

[TeeJ]

Attachment 30152

If you have any questions or want to discuss in detail, let me know.

Thanks,
Hunter[/QUOTE]

aznytfury :


Li-225 BIM (Battery Isolation Manager):
Attachment 31174




Do you know what the other 2 wires attached to the BIM are for? I tried highlighting them with yellow and green.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by TeeJ

Attachment 30152

If you have any questions or want to discuss in detail, let me know.

Thanks,
Hunter

aznytfury :


Li-225 BIM (Battery Isolation Manager):
Attachment 31174


Do you know what the other 2 wires attached to the BIM are for? I tried highlighting them with yellow and green.[/QUOTE]

Per the BIM installation guide the "yellow" wire probably goes to the ignition switch. But the "green" (Red) wire and extra black wires are not part of a normal installation.

[Chateau_Nomad]

There should NOT be any other wires "piggybacked" on those terminals other than what's specified in the wiring instructions... and as labeled on the device itself.

Someone took a shortcut... and that can introduce issues later. If someone wanted another circuit from the chassis battery, RUN IT DIRECTLY from the chassis battery posts!!

The BIM-225 is a battery isolation manager... NOT a convenient busbar to wire random unlabeled circuits!

The labeled terminals are self explanatory...

Batt Chassis (chassis battery)
Batt Coach (house battery or bank of batteries)
Ign (hot when ignition switch is ON)
Gnd (ground to chassis)

Is this factory install from Thor? Third party?

[aznytfury]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

There should NOT be any other wires "piggybacked" on those terminals other than what's specified in the wiring instructions... and as labeled on the device itself.

Someone took a shortcut... and that can introduce issues later. If someone wanted another circuit from the chassis battery, RUN IT DIRECTLY from the chassis battery posts!!

The BIM-225 is a battery isolation manager... NOT a convenient busbar to wire random unlabeled circuits!

The labeled terminals are self explanatory...

Batt Chassis (chassis battery)
Batt Coach (house battery or bank of batteries)
Ign (hot when ignition switch is ON)
Gnd (ground to chassis)

Is this factory install from Thor? Third party?

Those "piggybacked" terminals were actually from the factory and installed by Thor. It is part of their schematics as well. Those additional runs ended up being the connection to the Firefly PMM (Coach side power) and the battery voltage monitoring on the PMM for Chassis side power. FWIW, Thor also had them initially backwards/reversed. Took some time to figure that mess out...

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by aznytfury

Those "piggybacked" terminals were actually from the factory and installed by Thor. It is part of their schematics as well. Those additional runs ended up being the connection to the Firefly PMM (Coach side power) and the battery voltage monitoring on the PMM for Chassis side power. FWIW, Thor also had them initially backwards/reversed. Took some time to figure that mess out...

Yep, and those shortcuts manifest in troubleshooting headaches for the RV owner. If/when the battery isolation module has issues, it affects the Firefly... which has it's own inherent problems. What's next? Thor wiring the Firefly into the radio power circuit because it's convenient??

If I were you, as part of your upgrade I'd remove those piggybacked wires and wire a PROPER circuit with fusing - wired DIRECTLY to each respective battery bank... or it's bus.