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Old 07-13-2015, 05:33 PM   #41
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I think most of us Axis-Vegas owners had a few glitches to deal with at first, some more so than others, but once you get them fixed, you will enjoy your coach. The upside of it is that you become familiar with your systems etc.
It is good that you are dealing with them before heading out camping. I keep a running to do list especially when on the road of things that need to be done, and things that I would like to do. I still have one from the first coach I had that was never completed.

If you have basic mech. knowledge- skills, I would not be concerned about installing it yourself and saving a few bucks. Being a 73 yr. geezer, it was easy for me once I got the bolts loose.

The front end alignment will straighten up your wheel and any pulling one way or another. Mine pulled hard right when first driving. I bought mine used-new, as is, special price-circumstances and had no dealer support, so I worked out some of the "finishing", as one member here put it, myself.

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Old 07-13-2015, 05:47 PM   #42
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Be aware that if your MH is on a Ford Chassis, the steering wheel can NOT be
centered after the alignment. At least that is what I was told my the Med/Hvy
Ford truck dealer I had my alignment done at.
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Old 07-14-2015, 03:36 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by FW28z View Post

....cut....

The air shocks can change the weight balance forward, putting more weight on the front tires, which is maybe the next best improvement. And at $350 or so, they are not the most expensive fix.

.....cut.....
"Air shocks" or air suspension can lift or lower suspension, but the effect on front-to-rear weight distribution seems so minimal it's hardly worth worrying about.

Is the manufacturer claiming that it shifts weight forward, and if so, by how much?
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:46 AM   #44
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I suppose the obvious answer is to put your front axle on a scale, then inflate the air bags and see if there is any weight difference.

When I was in the military, I remember some vehicles that had heavy communications gear bolted onto the back of them. It shifted the center of balance to the rear so much so that the steering felt sluggish, and like you were driving on ice.

This is exactly the same feeling I have with the motorhome. And the very first time I drove it (empty), I immediately thought of that experience.

Since the RV manufacturer probably does not have a clue about these kinds of things, it's my belief that they probably put too much weight in the rear - especially with such a huge overhang - that it is affecting the steering.

So one thing I know for sure... if you significantly load the rear of a vehicle, the steering will feel mushy.

As well, my Ford dealer noticed I had a fair amount of camber on the front wheels. Being a twin I-Beam suspension, this indicates to me that there is not enough weight on the front end. He is the one that originally suggested Air Bags.

Also, both Jayco and Forest River put air bags on their Class C's. Why would they do that given you are not going to load the coach down with cargo like you would a pickup truck?

What methods would you suggest to shift the weight balance to the front axle?
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Old 07-14-2015, 12:41 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by FW28z View Post
I suppose the obvious answer is to put your front axle on a scale, then inflate the air bags and see if there is any weight difference.

When I was in the military, I remember some vehicles that had heavy communications gear bolted onto the back of them. It shifted the center of balance to the rear so much so that the steering felt sluggish, and like you were driving on ice.

This is exactly the same feeling I have with the motorhome. And the very first time I drove it (empty), I immediately thought of that experience.

Since the RV manufacturer probably does not have a clue about these kinds of things, it's my belief that they probably put too much weight in the rear - especially with such a huge overhang - that it is affecting the steering.

So one thing I know for sure... if you significantly load the rear of a vehicle, the steering will feel mushy.

As well, my Ford dealer noticed I had a fair amount of camber on the front wheels. Being a twin I-Beam suspension, this indicates to me that there is not enough weight on the front end. He is the one that originally suggested Air Bags.

Also, both Jayco and Forest River put air bags on their Class C's. Why would they do that given you are not going to load the coach down with cargo like you would a pickup truck?

What methods would you suggest to shift the weight balance to the front axle?
There are two separate issues that people often commingle/confuse, or can deceptively be used for marketing purposes.

Adding weight over the rear axle like in your military example will have two effects: the rear suspension lowers due to weight (assuming normal leaf springs) and also the center of gravity will be shifted back so there is a lower percentage of the weight over the front steering axle.

On the other hand, lifting the rear suspension back to its original height, whether with air bags, different leaf springs, or blocks (doesn't matter how) will NOT return the weight distribution to its original front-to-back percentages. Lifting the back will have a very minor effect on weight distribution that is easy to calculate in advance. It depends on motorhome wheelbase and height of center of gravity. Basically by pitching the motorhome forward the CG will move forward a tiny amount. So when a company claims that lifting the rear with air bags shifts weight forward, they are technically correct. But the amount can be so little it's hardly worth pursuing for that reason.

I'm not suggesting not to use air bags, or that they may not affect steering. I'm just replying to the weight distribution claim.

As far as weight over front wheels (either absolute amount or as percentage), you can make a much bigger difference by how you load the RV.
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Old 07-14-2015, 02:55 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Saran View Post
Be aware that if your MH is on a Ford Chassis, the steering wheel can NOT be
centered after the alignment. At least that is what I was told my the Med/Hvy
Ford truck dealer I had my alignment done at.
My steering wheel was not on center and coach was pulling right. After front end alignment, wheel was centered and no pulling to the right. Not sure how they did it. Still had a little wander, but was not a big deal. Seems to track much better now with the HD sway bars and Safe-T-Plus.
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Old 07-14-2015, 03:39 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by mcr1010 View Post
My steering wheel was not on center and coach was pulling right. After front end alignment, wheel was centered and no pulling to the right. Not sure how they did it. Still had a little wander, but was not a big deal. Seems to track much better now with the HD sway bars and Safe-T-Plus.
Food for thought,

From experience (in my teenage years many, many, moons ago) a good alignment tech will lock the steering wheel at center before adjusting the toe in/out. It is the toe in/out and resulting adjustment to tie rod ends that centers the steering wheel. If I remember correctly toe in/out should be adjusted before adjusting caster and camber.

Keep in mind that alignment racks are generally level and after centering the wheel on the rack, it may be slightly off center as a result of the crowned surface of a road which causes you to apply slight pressure on the wheel to prevent wandering. Since the degree to which construction crews crown the center of the road is dependent on local conditions, the degree to which a wheel appears off center may vary.
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Old 07-14-2015, 07:52 PM   #48
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Yes indeed, as most roads especially newer roads here in Fl have some crown or slope will definitely vary your steering. I think a few others here had some steering issues right out door with their Axis & or Vegas. Front end alignment usually fixes pulling or drifting one way or another. In fact it is mentioned on the placard beside driver to load up and get the alignment. Does seem like they could do a little better at mfg. with the alignment. Must be a real PIA for the delivery guy.
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Old 07-14-2015, 11:51 PM   #49
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Must be a real PIA for the delivery guy.
I'd really like to hear the story my delivery guy now has with his 1800mi drive from the factory through that major snowstorm back in February 'ish timeframe! By the looks of some tank strap impact evidence I'm sure that he had at least one close call event to talk about! I saw the rig before it got cleaned up and it was completely covered with winter muck. Windshield was nicely cracked but externally I didn't see any other obvious body damage. How the tank got hit like that without taking out a side skirt or bumper is a story I'd like to hear.
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Old 07-16-2015, 01:12 AM   #50
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Today we started our 2015 Western Adventure. Left Memphis, TN going to the W coast vi via CO, UT, AZ, then up Hwy 1 to tip of WA, back down to Mt Rainer, to Cadcades, to Kalispell, MT, TO Jackson Hole, back to Red Rocks, Co and then home.

Today we traveled from MEM to Springfield, MO. First trip since I had all the chassis work completed on the Axis. Added Safe T plus, Henderson Super Suspension HD rear sway bar and trac bar. Coach is a completely different vehicle. No push when trucks pass. Actually you could take your hands off the steering wheel and the Axis would steer straight. Got caught in a bad T Storm. Prob 30-40 mph cross wind. Some push and pull but not the old white knuckle driving like before. Handling and ride is so much better. Well worth the investment. Especially once we get into the mountains out west.
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Old 07-16-2015, 09:13 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Phil Saran View Post
Be aware that if your MH is on a Ford Chassis, the steering wheel can NOT be
centered after the alignment. At least that is what I was told my the Med/Hvy
Ford truck dealer I had my alignment done at.
And you believed him?!

The steering wheel must be centered and locked down during the alignment process. All the tie rod adjustments are made around the steering wheel being centered.

If your dealer, (and his certified factory-trained technician), forgot to center and secure the steering wheel, of course they cannot center the wheel after the alignment has been completed. They would have to redo all the work, on their time and expense! Impossible! Not gonna happen!
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Old 07-17-2015, 07:30 PM   #52
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So I took my Axis in for its first Warrantee visit. They told me the steering wheel off center issue would have to be done by a Ford Truck place (under Ford's warrantee). I have my Safe-T-Plus in hand and will put that on before taking it to Ford for an alignment and to fix the steering wheel issue. My problem with a dead windshield washer motor and non-working cruise control apparently are under Thror's warranty. Interestingly they at first refused to fix the rear inside tire valve stems under the warrantee. I told them the manual tells the user to check tire pressure before every trip.. I asked how can they not warrantee inside tire valve access if the manual tells you to check the tires. The service manager said it was a catch 22 until I showed him the broken clip that held a valve extender that was too short to be used. He then said if it was OEM and broken, they would fix under warrantee. Oh brother.
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Old 07-17-2015, 07:33 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Tomspen View Post
Today we started our 2015 Western Adventure. Left Memphis, TN going to the W coast vi via CO, UT, AZ, then up Hwy 1 to tip of WA, back down to Mt Rainer, to Cadcades, to Kalispell, MT, TO Jackson Hole, back to Red Rocks, Co and then home.

Today we traveled from MEM to Springfield, MO. First trip since I had all the chassis work completed on the Axis. Added Safe T plus, Henderson Super Suspension HD rear sway bar and trac bar. Coach is a completely different vehicle. No push when trucks pass. Actually you could take your hands off the steering wheel and the Axis would steer straight. Got caught in a bad T Storm. Prob 30-40 mph cross wind. Some push and pull but not the old white knuckle driving like before. Handling and ride is so much better. Well worth the investment. Especially once we get into the mountains out west.

i wish i could justify, to both DW and me, to just do a wholesale upgrade to everything like that.... as opposed trying to guess what the root problem(s) are and which move would do the "most".
Good job, and great to hear it worked for you!
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Old 07-18-2015, 02:22 PM   #54
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FYI - Just took my Axis in for its first warrantee work and I have a Safe-T-Plus waiting to put in after that is done. The service tech agreed with me that the best thing to do is to install the Safe-T-Plus and THEN have the alignment done.
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Old 07-18-2015, 09:37 PM   #55
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I don't see the logic in that. Wouldn't that potentially mean adjusting for center tracking twice vs. once?
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Old 02-10-2017, 01:32 AM   #56
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So
I have the 2016 Vegas 24.1 Had it for four months and put on 5400 miles ��
Had it aligned by a reputable truck tire shop right after getting it Amazing difference !
Just added heavy duty Hellwick stabilizers to front and rear...by same shop
The dreaded "back and forth" has returned and the tire guys can't figure it out
Pressures are in keeping with weight distribution
Don't get blown off the road by the big boys any more and don't roll going around mountain roads but do have to hang on Even on straight smooth roads with no wind
What the heck am I missing ?????
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Old 02-10-2017, 01:32 PM   #57
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my guess is panhard rod.
From what I have been able to learn, the issue with leaf spring systems are fixed with these track bars. The sway bars and other things fix other issues, and I think their affect in fixing that tracking issue is secondary.... just my guess.
Here's a pretty good read on the topic
http://www.rvforum.net/miscfiles/MH_..._%20Primer.pdf

Now that being said, who's to say that your alignment is optimal. I guess that's where trust comes in... have to trust that the alignment guy knows what he's doing + he did a good job. No guarantee really there for either....
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Old 02-10-2017, 02:42 PM   #58
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blw2
Much grass brother
Great article but unfortunately I'm now more confused then before !!
Percentage wise it seems the Safe-T-Plus is the way to go
The article you attached certainly was descriptive enough when discussing the "rut" syndrome
That is exactly what I'm experiencing so the panhard solution seems in order
Bandaid,probably but if it stops the bleeding I'm good
Thanks for taking the time to respond and attaching the article
i appreciate ya
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Old 02-10-2017, 02:43 PM   #59
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Yes you still need the rear trac bar. Sad to say but it does help.
Plus keeping the tire pressure at the recommended amount.

You will never get rid of all the movement, you are driving a big
slab sided box (mine is bigger) down the road and the wind will
still move you around some.
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Old 02-10-2017, 02:49 PM   #60
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Phil
Oh great...MORE money !!!
The thing that has me confused is that everything was fine until I added the heavy duty sway bars and put 120 lbs of bikes/with rack on the rear
That amount of weight should not have an effect
I had the alignment rechecked and was OK
Tire pressures are correct
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts
I appreciate it
Happy trails
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