Solar charging both house & coach batteries

Wizard749 · 03-22-2022, 06:30 PM

I have a Thor Tuscany 40DX 2016. The unit came pre-wired for Solar. I recently added a 190 watt solar panel to keep my batteries charged while in storage. The wiring ran from the roof to the inverter panel area. I added a 30 amp solar control box DC output to charge batteries. After 3 calls to Thor Owners Tech Support i still have no answers. The following is a picture of the wiring according to Thor. SEE ATTACHED PICTURE. I understand that while on commercial OR generator power that my inverter charges both house and coach batteries. I want to charge both house and coach batteries from my solar panel. There is only one ground and one output lead from my solar controller. Now my question is Where do I hook the output lead up to in order to use the solar to charge both sets of batteries while stored???????

First RV 4 me · 03-22-2022, 07:58 PM

wow you posted a good one !
I am in the process of doing the same thing to my 2015 KQ. First thing is you may not have everything connected. did you find a orange and white wire behind your trombetta with the ends wrapped in red tape?
That is + & - from your charge controller.
Next is how your batteries are charged to full. The BIRD controls that. When coach is at full charge the bird will turn on the relay circuit thus engaging the Trombetta connecting your coach to chaise batteries..

Where did you find the wires on the roof ? I can't find mine and had to run cable to them.

DavidEM · 03-22-2022, 08:11 PM

Fiirst the terms coach and house generally mean the same thing. You probably meant chassis as is noted on your attached diagram.

I always hook the output of the solar controller directly to the batteries, well with an appropriately sized fuse for the wire size located near the batteries. That way the coach battery always gets charged no matter how the use/store switch is set. The BIRD/Trombetta device is supposed to connect the two battery systems together when one of them is charging.

David

lwmcguir · 03-22-2022, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by First RV 4 me

wow you posted a good one !
I am in the process of doing the same thing to my 2015 KQ. First thing is you may not have everything connected. did you find a orange and white wire behind your trambetta with the ends wrapped in red tape?
That is + & - from your charge controller.
Next is how your batteries are charged to full. The BIRD controls that. When coach is at full charge the bird will turn on the relay circuit thus engaging the Trambetta connecting your coach to chaise batteries..

Where did you find the wires on the roof ? I can't find mine and had to run cable to them.

My wires are on the driver side rear panel behind the tag axle

lwmcguir · 03-22-2022, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizard749

I have a Thor Tuscany 40DX 2016. The unit came pre-wired for Solar. I recently added a 190 watt solar panel to keep my batteries charged while in storage. The wiring ran from the roof to the inverter panel area. I added a 30 amp solar control box DC output to charge batteries. After 3 calls to Thor Owners Tech Support i still have no answers. The following is a picture of the wiring according to Thor. SEE ATTACHED PICTURE. I understand that while on commercial OR generator power that my inverter charges both house and coach batteries. I want to charge both house and coach batteries from my solar panel. There is only one ground and one output lead from my solar controller. Now my question is Where do I hook the output lead up to in order to use the solar to charge both sets of batteries while stored???????

The orange and white wires by the Trombetta go to the house side of the Trombetta

**16ACE27** · 03-22-2022, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizard749

I have a Thor Tuscany 40DX 2016. The unit came pre-wired for Solar. I recently added a 190 watt solar panel to keep my batteries charged while in storage. The wiring ran from the roof to the inverter panel area. I added a 30 amp solar control box DC output to charge batteries. After 3 calls to Thor Owners Tech Support i still have no answers. The following is a picture of the wiring according to Thor. SEE ATTACHED PICTURE. I understand that while on commercial OR generator power that my inverter charges both house and coach batteries. I want to charge both house and coach batteries from my solar panel. There is only one ground and one output lead from my solar controller. Now my question is Where do I hook the output lead up to in order to use the solar to charge both sets of batteries while stored???????

Connect the output of the solar controller to the house batteries, When the house batteries are sufficiently charged that the BIRD recognizes they are being charged by their voltage, the BIRD will close the Trombetta relay to connect the two battery banks together and then the chassis battery(s) will also charge. No different than how the converter/inverter charges both banks of batteries.

Wizard749 · 03-22-2022, 10:17 PM

The connection for the roof was a black 2 wire connection already installed on the roof. I did find the orange and white wires in my inverter bin. I connected the wires to the solar controller and coming out of the controller the white was then added to the chassis ground. Power out of the controller has been attached to the inverter power out terminal bus. The meter shows 14.3 volts flowing from solar panel to controller and out to batteries. The problem is which batteries. And will it get through the BIRD to both chassis and coach batteries.

Pete'sMH · 03-22-2022, 10:54 PM

Easiest solution is to add a device called a Trik-L-Start. Simple two wire connection. It charges the starting battery from the house batteries - but it only does it when the house batteries are fully charged AND are actively being charged from any source. Works great. You’ve got plenty of capacity. I keep two house and the chassis battery topped up with only 80 W of solar.

**16ACE27** · 03-22-2022, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizard749

The connection for the roof was a black 2 wire connection already installed on the roof. I did find the orange and white wires in my inverter bin. I connected the wires to the solar controller and coming out of the controller the white was then added to the chassis ground. Power out of the controller has been attached to the inverter power out terminal bus. The meter shows 14.3 volts flowing from solar panel to controller and out to batteries. The problem is which batteries. And will it get through the BIRD to both chassis and coach batteries.

It doesn't go through the BIRD. The BIRD is just the controller for the Trombetta relay. See the post above yours.

MLP · 03-22-2022, 11:58 PM

Pete'sMH has it. It is what I have done. Works like a charm, but add a fuse in line. Use:

10 AMP
https://lslproducts.net/TLSPage.html
or 15 amp
AMP-L-START Starting Battery Charger/Maintainer - Overview Page

Wizard749 · 03-23-2022, 05:37 AM

All of this is so confusing. One person tells me to buy a Trik-L-Start. Another tell me Next is how your batteries are charged to full. The BIRD controls that. When coach is at full charge the bird will turn on the relay circuit thus engaging the Trombetta connecting your coach to chaise batteries.
Then someone else says the BIRD doesn't switch the charging output from the solar panel controller. None of them answered my original question. Where do I hook up the output wire. I am not running more wire directly to batteries that may or may not get charging from another source. I can't understand why this has to be so hard. If bith sets if batteries are being charged when the generator or commercial piwer us connected. Why cant the solar panel do the same thing. There has to be a connection point to hook this up to.

Wizard749 · 03-23-2022, 05:39 AM

Thats great, now tell me exactly where i hook this wire up.

DavidEM · 03-23-2022, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizard749

Thats great, now tell me exactly where i hook this wire up.

Posts 3 and 6 clearly answered this question.

But you know, differing advice is the nature of the internet. I have noticed some recommend what they have, not necessarily what is best for you. It is your job to sort it all out.

David

lwmcguire · 03-23-2022, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizard749

All of this is so confusing. One person tells me to buy a Trik-L-Start. Another tell me Next is how your batteries are charged to full. The BIRD controls that. When coach is at full charge the bird will turn on the relay circuit thus engaging the Trombetta connecting your coach to chaise batteries.
Then someone else says the BIRD doesn't switch the charging output from the solar panel controller. None of them answered my original question. Where do I hook up the output wire. I am not running more wire directly to batteries that may or may not get charging from another source. I can't understand why this has to be so hard. If bith sets if batteries are being charged when the generator or commercial piwer us connected. Why cant the solar panel do the same thing. There has to be a connection point to hook this up to.

So you didn't read post #5?

**16ACE27** · 03-23-2022, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizard749

All of this is so confusing. One person tells me to buy a Trik-L-Start. Another tell me Next is how your batteries are charged to full. The BIRD controls that. When coach is at full charge the bird will turn on the relay circuit thus engaging the Trombetta connecting your coach to chaise batteries.
Then someone else says the BIRD doesn't switch the charging output from the solar panel controller. None of them answered my original question. Where do I hook up the output wire. I am not running more wire directly to batteries that may or may not get charging from another source. I can't understand why this has to be so hard. If bith sets if batteries are being charged when the generator or commercial piwer us connected. Why cant the solar panel do the same thing. There has to be a connection point to hook this up to.

You question has been answered and explained many times in this thread but you don't seem to understand it.

Realize there is a difference between electrical connections and physical connections. When someone says to connect to the house batteries that doesn't mean a wire has to go physically to the house batteries it can go to any physical connection which is electrically connected directly to the house batteries, like the side of the Trombetta relay which is already connected to the house batteries.

When you use SP or the Generator they supply 120 VAC to either a Converter or the charging component of an Inverter which supplies 12 to 15 VDC to the DC buss to power electrical loads and charge the house batteries.
When you run your engine the Alternator supplies 13 to 15 VDC to the chassis loads and charges the chassis battery.

The BIRD monitors both the house and chassis battery voltages. When it senses a charging voltage on one side or the other it connects the battery banks together to charge all batteries. This is pretty instantaneous with SP, Generator or the Alternator due to the current supplying capacity of their chargers. With SOLAR it may take a while for the house battery voltage to be raised high enough for the BIRD to recognize the batteries are being charged due to the slow nature of solar charging, but when the house battery voltage is high enough to "trip" the BIRD, the chassis batteries will also benefit from the slow charging. But realize, the Trombetta relay will "steal" 1 amp of current continuously while it is energized.

So connect your solar wire to any physical connection that is electrically connected to the house batteries for your solar installation and don't worry about a trickle charger for solar charging, trickle chargers run off 120 VAC which, if you had access to, you wouldn't be concerned about solar charging.

Wizard749 · 03-25-2022, 11:21 PM

Thank you for the exact answers i was looking for. Computers i know inside and out, but 12 volt systems on a RV are tge mosy mixed up systems to me.
Thanks again to everyone who has answered my request.

MLP · 03-25-2022, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

You question has been answered and explained many times in this thread but you don't seem to understand it.

Realize there is a difference between electrical connections and physical connections. When someone says to connect to the house batteries that doesn't mean a wire has to go physically to the house batteries it can go to any physical connection which is electrically connected directly to the house batteries, like the side of the Trombetta relay which is already connected to the house batteries.

When you use SP or the Generator they supply 120 VAC to either a Converter or the charging component of an Inverter which supplies 12 to 15 VDC to the DC buss to power electrical loads and charge the house batteries.
When you run your engine the Alternator supplies 13 to 15 VDC to the chassis loads and charges the chassis battery.

The BIRD monitors both the house and chassis battery voltages. When it senses a charging voltage on one side or the other it connects the battery banks together to charge all batteries. This is pretty instantaneous with SP, Generator or the Alternator due to the current supplying capacity of their chargers. With SOLAR it may take a while for the house battery voltage to be raised high enough for the BIRD to recognize the batteries are being charged due to the slow nature of solar charging, but when the house battery voltage is high enough to "trip" the BIRD, the chassis batteries will also benefit from the slow charging. But realize, the Trombetta relay will "steal" 1 amp of current continuously while it is energized.

So connect your solar wire to any physical connection that is electrically connected to the house batteries for your solar installation and don't worry about a trickle charger for solar charging, trickle chargers run off 120 VAC which, if you had access to, you wouldn't be concerned about solar charging.

I have a BIRD in my 2013 Palazzo. The BIRD only switches when the alternator is charging the batteries. The solar, 500W system, does not switch the BIRD. Thus the Trik-L-Start which does keep my starter batteries charged.

MLP · 03-26-2022, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MLP

I have a BIRD in my 2013 Palazzo. The BIRD only switches when the alternator is charging the batteries. The solar, 500W system, does not switch the BIRD. Thus the Trik-L-Start which does keep my starter batteries charged.

I should have stated that the BIRD only switches when the alternator or the converter is charging the batteries. The solar charger floats at 13.8V and should be enough voltage, but it does not switch the battery isolator relay and charge the chassis batteries.

**16ACE27** · 03-26-2022, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MLP

I have a BIRD in my 2013 Palazzo. The BIRD only switches when the alternator is charging the batteries. The solar, 500W system, does not switch the BIRD. Thus the Trik-L-Start which does keep my starter batteries charged.

That sounds like an IRD, not a BIRD.

MLP · 03-26-2022, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

That sounds like an IRD, not a BIRD.

Well I have yet to find everything on a set of schematics, but I did find the 5A fuse for the steps,TV relay, and BIRD. F27 Ignition J5 Connector for the Chassis Diesel Distribution. I do know where the BIRD is licated, but you had me questioning until I saw that the IRD only works with the ignition switch and not also with the converter as well. A sort of block diagram has the BIRD where I thought it was, in the fight rear compartment. A very bit pain to work in. I will check this all out the next time I get it back from storage.

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