50 amp plug in

oldbird · 05-22-2017, 03:32 PM

So as to not bother the McKee's anymore in their thread 'A/C just took a dump' I thought I would start a new thread.

Yesterday I was running 54 amps from two ac's, WH, cloths dryer etc. and tripped the breaker. Before it tripped I was pulling 29 amps on L1 and 25 amps on L2, according to my surge guard. No where near the max of 50 amps for L1 & L2 which I was told in the thread above was 50 amps apiece for a total of 100 amps. What do you guys think caused this? The park service, my 08 36TK3, the Hughes Autoformer, the surge guard or what? Maybe the Autoformer and surge guard shouldn't be used together? I asked both companies if it was OK and was told yes. Thanks for any advise!

Cummins12V98 · 05-22-2017, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldbird

So as to not bother the McKee's anymore in their thread 'A/C just took a dump' I thought I would start a new thread.

Yesterday I was running 54 amps from two ac's, WH, cloths dryer etc. and tripped the breaker. Before it tripped I was pulling 29 amps on L1 and 25 amps on L2, according to my surge guard. No where near the max of 50 amps for L1 & L2 which I was told in the thread above was 50 amps apiece for a total of 100 amps. What do you guys think caused this? The park service, my 08 36TK3, the Hughes Autoformer, the surge guard or what? Maybe the Autoformer and surge guard shouldn't be used together? I asked both companies if it was OK and was told yes. Thanks for any advise!

Auto former closest to the pedestal is what I have been told. I installed mine in cord reel compartment.

What were your voltages reading?

oldbird · 05-22-2017, 04:27 PM

Autoformer is closest to pedestal, surge guard is 'downstream'. I don't even need to use the Autoformer because the volts are in the low 120's. The only thing I can think of its the park power. Thanks Cummins

Bobi, Dick and Ruby McKee · 05-22-2017, 05:17 PM

Glenn, never a bother. I read them all and generally learn something. Dick

Fulltimer50 · 05-23-2017, 01:01 PM

Which breaker tripped ?

oldbird · 05-23-2017, 02:35 PM

The one on the pedestal tripped. In my 13 years of hauling 5ers, when I see 54 amps being drawn I figured it would trip and it did. I understand the L1 and L2 lines off of 240 but my experience has always been that if 50 amps is exceeded, the breaker trips. This is based on three 5ers, a Holiday Rambler, Travel Supreme and now the Mobile Suites. Maybe its the Surge Guard? IDK

Cummins12V98 · 05-23-2017, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldbird

The one on the pedestal tripped. In my 13 years of hauling 5ers, when I see 54 amps being drawn I figured it would trip and it did. I understand the L1 and L2 lines off of 240 but my experience has always been that if 50 amps is exceeded, the breaker trips. This is based on three 5ers, a Holiday Rambler, Travel Supreme and now the Mobile Suites. Maybe its the Surge Guard? IDK

If you are drawing over 50A on one leg I would be looking at what each leg every item is attached to. You may have too many items on one leg.

In pic I have all three AC's running and 220V dryer.

oldbird · 05-23-2017, 08:57 PM

Wow, that's impressive! I was pulling 29 amps on L1 and 25 amps on L2 and tripped the pedestal breaker. I can't blame this campgroud because I would have tripped the pedestal breaker at 54 amps on any other park. I see that's a surge guard read out and I've read about your install of the autoformer. So, once again I don't know what is going on. My Travel Supreme would have tripped it also.

Porkchop · 05-23-2017, 08:57 PM

Oldbird=having followed your quandary with trying to understand the equation I realize that no one is going to change your mind. Having said that I will for one final time tell you that it IS NOT additive. Each leg is allowed to draw up to 50amps on it's own for a total of 100 amps of usage. And I will stake my degree in electrical engineering and 40 years of practical experience in the field on it. No matter how many rv's you've had over how many ever years.
PS+ the surge guard would not cause the breaker on the pedestal to trip unless you have other issues. Such as a short. Other than that you have to draw more than 50 amps on one or the other legs for a long enough time to cause sufficient heating to trip the breaker.
The type of circuit breakers we are all familiar with are inverse time trip breakers, not instant trip. They can operate at 115% of their ratings and trip in 7 minutes and still meet specs. Or receive a large surge, such as a "short" or fault and trip instantly.
Other than that the breaker you are referring to is on it's way to complete failure.
In the future don't put too much faith in what the managers or maintenance people of parks tell you. unless they have a degree of course.

Bill

Cummins12V98 · 05-23-2017, 09:04 PM

On my RV lot in SoCal last Summer I was having issues tripping the breaker on the pedestal running the same load as pic above. The breaker finally said "i'm done" so the maintenance guy replaced with new and all has been well with temps up to 110 lately.

I would listen to Porkchop he is very knowledgable in this field.

anijet · 05-24-2017, 12:01 AM

The symptoms kinda sound like both legs are tied to one line some where after the pedestal. The 54 total amps fits tripping one breaker.

oldbird · 05-24-2017, 01:13 AM

Bill & Cummins, I understand the principle but I only know what I see in my own situation. I travel 12K miles from western AZ to MI and OH and back in six months. Been doing it now for nine years, stayed in more campgrounds then I care to remember. I'm happy for you guys to be able to draw that much power and bottom line, I'm jealous! I hope I said that diplomatic enough because I know all to well how people can get their panties in a twist on forums. I never doubted you Cummins or Bill, NEVER!!

What you say anijet is probably the case where I tend to stay on my travels. I don't believe there is anything wrong with my 5er. Seeing how I'm on the verge of beating this dead horse to death, I'll drop it. Thanks for all your help, sincerely!

Cummins12V98 · 05-24-2017, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldbird

Bill & Cummins, I understand the principle but I only know what I see in my own situation. I travel 12K miles from western AZ to MI and OH and back in six months. Been doing it now for nine years, stayed in more campgrounds then I care to remember. I'm happy for you guys to be able to draw that much power and bottom line, I'm jealous! I hope I said that diplomatic enough because I know all to well how people can get their panties in a twist on forums. I never doubted you Cummins or Bill, NEVER!!

What you say anijet is probably the case where I tend to stay on my travels. I don't believe there is anything wrong with my 5er. Seeing how I'm on the verge of beating this dead horse to death, I'll drop it. Thanks for all your help, sincerely!

Good reply!!!

DonandPatti · 05-24-2017, 02:48 PM

Just curious about the Hughes Autoformer. Are most people hard wiring them in or using them plugged in at the pedestal?
We recently had the breaker at the pedestal trip so you have me thinking about getting the Autoformer.

Don

Cummins12V98 · 05-24-2017, 02:56 PM

Personally they are too expensive to have at the pedestal even with a chain n lock. I installed the Camco ends so mine is plug n play so if the AF ever dies it will be easy to remove and get RV back on line.

DonandPatti · 05-24-2017, 04:39 PM

Cummins
By looking at your pics it appears it will just not simply fit in the cord reel bay. You have to make room for it.

Don

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cummins12V98

Personally they are too expensive to have at the pedestal even with a chain n lock. I installed the Camco ends so mine is plug n play so if the AF ever dies it will be easy to remove and get RV back on line.

Cummins12V98 · 05-24-2017, 08:13 PM

"Cummins
By looking at your pics it appears it will just not simply fit in the cord reel bay. You have to make room for it."

Actually there is plenty of room.

Porkchop · 05-24-2017, 08:49 PM

Anijet may actually have the correct answer. Sounds very possible that someone (who doesn't know what they are doing) may have tried to make a 50a out of an old 30a and just jumped side to side for the power. That would make sense and I have seen it before. Is this possibly in an older park? Measure the voltage side to side. If it comes up zero and not 240 than that is it.

By the way donandpatti , what problem are you having that you think a transformer will fix?

Bill

anijet · 05-25-2017, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porkchop

Anijet may actually have the correct answer. Sounds very possible that someone (who doesn't know what they are doing) may have tried to make a 50a out of an old 30a and just jumped side to side for the power. That would make sense and I have seen it before. Is this possibly in an older park? Measure the voltage side to side. If it comes up zero and not 240 than that is it.

By the way donandpatti , what problem are you having that you think a transformer will fix?

Bill

If they tied an old 30 amp line to only one 50 amp breaker, and then from that one 50 amp breaker fed both contacts of a 50 amp outlet one could see the readings oldbird listed above. This could be tested by turning off one 50 amp pedestal breaker at a time. Turning one off would make no difference and turning the other off would shut down all power.

The problem is, oldbird said it happens at multiple parks and has happened with several different coaches. This suggests the problem isn't in the coach or the park wiring.

Oldbird, can you confirm there are two 50 amp breakers in the pedestal? Can you check for 120vac from each line to neutral and 240vac line to line?

anijet · 05-25-2017, 01:37 AM

Another possibility is somewhere in the coach a single incoming line was connected to both legs going to the coach AC panel. Because of the amp readings it would have been done prior to the surge guard.

Another question for oldbird, are the surge guard and autoformer permanently installed or portable units? Were either of these removed and reused from your previous coaches?

You may also like: